CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - *Arrest* #62

[Simply Southern]

Yes, the confession was clear enough to him that JM grieved on the stand realizing a person close to him could do such a deed.

He didn't seem to doubt that Patrick killed Kelsey and that he premeditated the deed.

Moo. I think JM realized he was in deeper than he realized. PF used his phone to call KK. KK called JM to arrange to come get the horses.

He called PFs attorney and then went to police. He needs to separate himself and clear his name. Its a small town, reputations mean slot.

 

[Seattle1]

What's the deal with JM saying PF was like a "stepson" to him? A stepson. Who says that?

Did he date SF?

Did I miss something?

The reference I heard was "red-headed step-child" which I know as a term of endearment. (All gingers unite)...

MOO

 

[susiQ]

I believe the prosecution has been very methodical in corroborating KK's version of events (as they should, that's their job) and the evidence has backed it up. Without being able to see the trial, it's difficult to tell if, while trying to present KK as a credible witness, they're also presenting her as a quasi sympathetic victim of PF. I hope not. I hope they convey that she was an enthusiastic participant and is a complete dirt bag but that PF is the bigger dirt bag because HE KILLED KELSEY. The jury has to know it's right to despise KK (and this maximum leniency plea deal, if they feel that way) while keeping their eye on the fact PF is the killer. I'm not in the Dan May fan club and I hate this deal but it doesn't cloud my judgment on the monster that PF is. I hope this damn deal doesn't screw things up because, I agree, it only takes one juror to have a bug up their *advertiser censored* about it, be mad that KK walks and refuses to convict him.

Do you really think a juror is going to let PF walk JUST because he/she despises KK? I despise her involvement and not thrilled with the deal but never would I let that cloud my judgement. The evidence is overwhelming that HE did it. Not KK. Regardless of whether they see her as a villian OR a victim, she is not the murderer. She. was. not. there.

 

[Simply Southern]

A question comes up and you answer it in a heartbeat, Pommy! You are our very own Google and I feel for threads that try to exist without you!
Thank you!

BBM...

@PommyMommy IS Google.

 

[Seattle1]

Moo. I think JM realized he was in deeper than he realized. PF used his phone to call KK. KK called JM to arrange to come get the horses.

He called PFs attorney and then went to police. He needs to separate himself and clear his name. Its a small town, reputations mean slot.

I agree. JM's entire family has probably been fielding hate calls from outsiders for hours now -- and his son (that was classmates with PF) is probably exhausted trying to defend his dad.

If I recall correctly, JM contacted PF's attorney and police after he received the jailhouse recorded phone call where PF was making inquiry about the red barn.

It makes sense to me that he'd alert the public defender that he received a call from PF and likely told them he was calling the police.

MOO

 

[Dave F.]

Moo. I think JM realized he was in deeper than he realized. PF used his phone to call KK. KK called JM to arrange to come get the horses.

He called PFs attorney and then went to police. He needs to separate himself and clear his name. Its a small town, reputations mean slot.

Which small town.........Florissant or Guffey? Just asking.

 

[MemPat]

Yup, you're wrong. That article is long and hard to follow if you don't like scientific reading but it does say they can extract dna from all 3 parts of a tooth- the pulp, dentin and
enamel. I think that's correct.

I'm going to be content if they can just prove it's a human tooth because there is no reason a human tooth should have been in that burn pile if it wasn't Kelsey's.

 

[Artis]

At first they reel you in by saying things they know you want to hear. Then once they got your love, the BIG FLIP comes and the revealing of their real self starts. It's truly a wolf in sheep's clothing scenario. By that time women are so invested emotionally that they find it next to impossible to let go.
And the irrationalizing starts 'it must be me'. Then her work starts in trying to morph into being what he wants her to be. Its exhausting and always fails.

Men are victims of these semi humans, as well.

 

[MemPat]

Do you really think a juror is going to let PF walk JUST because he/she despises KK? I despise her involvement and not thrilled with the deal but never would I let that cloud my judgement. The evidence is overwhelming that HE did it. Not KK. Regardless of whether they see her as a villian OR a victim, she is not the murderer. She. was. not. there.

Any juror who voted for acquittal would be the laughingstock of the town. There's just no gray area here.

I hope the jury gets the case by the Tuesday before Thanksgiving so everyone can be done to prepare for the holiday.

It will surprise me if it takes 2 hours to "gitter done"!

 

[minusfour]

Will also be very interesting to hear about the other teeth found in an envelope in the Frazee household. What is it with this guy (PF) and teeth. Totally creepy. Dear God, please don't let us find out those teeth that were found had gold fillings in them.

I am a dentist. It's reasonably common for people to keep their teeth after having an extraction-close to 100% for kids, (tooth fairy!), and probably 20% of adults do. Yes, especially if they contain gold work. When I was a dental student, we had to source our own teeth to learn tooth anatomy, so we all put calls out to friends and family. I had a good haul, over a hundred teeth, within a few months.

Last week, an elderly retired man asked for the fragments of his badly fractured tooth after extraction. (It was fractured before I started, promise!) I asked him what he would do with them, and he said he would sew them into a tapestry. (With wool, textured apparently!)

 

[Artis]

Moore said he could only hear what Frazee was saying — not what the person on the other line was saying. He said they were discussing horses.

“If I get arrested — because they’ve taken my phone — I’m going to have my friend here call you and it will be from this phone number so come and get these horses,” Frazee said over the phone, according to Moore.
This part of Moore's testimony just jumped out. We know Taking care of horses,or looking at horses was code between KK,and PF for murder. Is this where more conspiracy/Solicitation charges come in? So PF had other horses, um (Hits) to take out. Kelsey's meddling mom,and brother perhaps. They sure we're putting major kinks in his master plan.
MOO.

My thought was that he was referring to some physical evidence.

 

[Steelhead]

The reference I heard was "red-headed step-child" which I know as a term of endearment. (All gingers unite)...

MOO

Hmm. The Urban Dictionary defines it otherwise, including, "A child who is obviously not your own, a child who is treated worse than other children in the family" and "An unwanted, (ashamed of) child. Less than desired child."

Maybe JM thought of PF as the unwanted child of the three siblings. That would make sense, maybe?

 

[NoeticSoul]

I am a dentist. It's reasonably common for people to keep their teeth after having an extraction-close to 100% for kids, (tooth fairy!), and probably 20% of adults do. Yes, especially if they contain gold work. When I was a dental student, we had to source our own teeth to learn tooth anatomy, so we all put calls out to friends and family. I had a good haul, over a hundred teeth, within a few months.

Last week, an elderly retired man asked for the fragments of his badly fractured tooth after extraction. (It was fractured before I started, promise!) I asked him what he would do with them, and he said he would sew them into a tapestry. (With wool, textured apparently!)

Interesting info ty! And bbm.. creepy. moo

 

[skyedaze]

Oh, you had to say "catch a snap" and remind me that my team lost today!
Roll Tide!

sorry 'bout that
Um..Go DAWGS!
well we are united in the anti-gator club maybe?

 

[Steelslady]

would be mind boggling if $ was left to grandchildren, but not to the children.... some people do that for various reasons

I have been wondering this, since at the beginning of the trial, they mentioned financial reasons were part of the motive for Patrick killing Kelsey.

But then I saw JM's testimony that he had been talking about killing Kelsey back in April of 2018, and try as I may, I can't make it fit the equation of the will being the cause. We do know from earlier interviews way back that Kelsey and Patrick couldn't get married and live together because Patrick was citing financial issues- something about the cattle prices. Had the father already been deceased and the will was an issue, I might think it had to do with the possibility that the money was left for the grandchildren. Then again, how would Patrick get Baby K's money- I would think that would be in some kind of trust fund until she turned a certain age.

I am curious, though, about the financial motive. It just doesn't make sense to me.

 

[skyedaze]

Moo. I think JM realized he was in deeper than he realized. PF used his phone to call KK. KK called JM to arrange to come get the horses.

He called PFs attorney and then went to police. He needs to separate himself and clear his name. Its a small town, reputations mean slot.

yep meeting up with PF and then letting PF use his phone to call KK got him all dirty. Everything was ok with him up until it affected him.

 

[Artis]

Well we do know they used an x-ray on a piece of evidence here.

If it’s the tooth, then I would assume DNA testing failed.

If the DNA was consumptive (they grind it up, perhaps?) then an x-ray would be done first In the event they need to rely on it).

 

[GordianKnot]

I have been wondering this, since at the beginning of the trial, they mentioned financial reasons were part of the motive for Patrick killing Kelsey.

But then I saw JM's testimony that he had been talking about killing Kelsey back in April of 2018, and try as I may, I can't make it fit the equation of the will being the cause. We do know from earlier interviews way back that Kelsey and Patrick couldn't get married and live together because Patrick was citing financial issues- something about the cattle prices. Had the father already been deceased and the will was an issue, I might think it had to do with the possibility that the money was left for the grandchildren. Then again, how would Patrick get Baby K's money- I would think that would be in some kind of trust fund until she turned a certain age.

I am curious, though, about the financial motive. It just doesn't make sense to me.

BBM:

I think the prosecution's theory of the case is that PF was experiencing financial stressors that were cumulative.

He took out that 70k loan, which he was in default status on.
He was paying KB child support up until a few months before he murdered her, then he stopped.
He was paying for her medical insurance.
He and his siblings were fighting over the dad's estate.

I think PF blamed KB entirely for his financial problems.

KB became the focus of his rage and resentment over his financial struggles.
His thoughts likely became obsessive:
"If KB wasn't around, I wouldn't have these problems."
"I have to get rid of her."
"I'm going to kill her. Once she's gone, problem solved."

JMO.

 

[Snowsnake]

Wonder if he discussed it with his mom...

I feel he did. SF may have a warrant waiting for her.

 

[Best of What's Around]

BBM:

I think the prosecution's theory of the case is that PF was experiencing financial stressors that were cumulative.

He took out that 70k loan, which he was in default status on.
He was paying KB child support up until a few months before he murdered her, then he stopped.
He was paying for her medical insurance.
He and his siblings were fighting over the dad's estate.

I think PF blamed KB entirely for his financial problems.

KB became the focus of his rage and resentment over his financial struggles.
His thoughts likely became obsessive:
"If KB wasn't around, I wouldn't have these problems."
"I have to get rid of her."
"I'm going to kill her. Once she's gone, problem solved."

JMO.

I agree and may be combined with the idea that if he wanted to break things off with her - it would cost him mightily in a custody fight, which he could well lose - resulting in her leaving the state with his child and having to pay child support in addition. For whatever reason (luckily for the baby’s life), he seemed to see his daughter as a narcissistic extension of himself.

My apologies as I have not closely followed the case - but perhaps he thought he would get his paws on any life insurance KB might have had via work or otherwise since he assumed he would have sole custody after she was presumed dead (proceeds going to the daughter)?