CO - Possible Serial Shooter Has Colorado Drivers on Edge #3

[Foxfire]

I am moving to Fort Collins in a few days and have been reading this thread. Hope I don't have anything to report. But if I do, I will! :scared:

'Welcome to the thread, Maxine2U'! Hope you don't have anything to report either, but it is always a good thing to have more eyes and ears in the community to keep us updated...

 

[e-sherlockholmes]

Well, when I first saw the courtroom video, it gave me a moment of pause. But now I don't know.

The fact the suspect apparently re-pawned the gun a few times is suspicious to me. Why did he do that? Did anyone verify with surveillance videos that this had in fact happened and was not falsified somehow? (i.e. we don't just go by the accounts of what the pawn store says).

His criminal record is interesting too.

 

[Forager]

Well, when I first saw the courtroom video, it gave me a moment of pause. But now I don't know.

The fact the suspect apparently re-pawned the gun a few times is suspicious to me. Why did he do that? Did anyone verify with surveillance videos that this had in fact happened and was not falsified somehow? (i.e. we don't just go by the accounts of what the pawn store says).

His criminal record is interesting too.

He did have a lost puppy look about him, but I've got to believe that DPS has had enough time to go over the pawn shop evidence well enough by now that they know its solid. That's all they really have to hold him on, as I understand it. You're right to suggest that the pawn shop reporting be scrutinized, but it sounds like a good source of evidence: procedure generated reports from a third party that went on record with LE prior to the shootings. The trial will tell.

 

[Forager]

3 arrested in new I-10 shootings, not connected to other freeway shootings
Posted: Oct 11, 2015 1:45 PM EDT
Updated: Oct 11, 2015 7:00 PM EDT
By Mike Gertzman

Three people were apprehended... multiple shootings on Interstate 10 early Sunday 10/11/15 morning, according to ADPS Trooper Tim Case.

1) a 2 a.m. report from a person on I-10 near the Broadway Curve, [who saw] the passenger in a black sedan traveling westbound point a handgun out the window and fire at least one shot. A Phoenix PD helicopter... followed the vehicle to an apartment complex.

2) "A short time later, there was another report of gunfire involving a black sedan, on I-10 westbound at 35th Ave. A person said a passenger in a black sedan fired a gun out of the passenger side window... .

Two were arrested at the apartment complex and a third at an undisclosed location. Investigators believe it is an isolated incident." [No detail on why.]

We've now seen nine arrests in connection with four sets of apparently unrelated attacks on moterists in the Phoenix area in three months:

- Window shatterings by three teen sling shot shooters
- Four I-10 9mm shootings allegedly by Leslie Merritt
- The road rage shooting allegedly by Hoffman
- The two or more shootings allegedly by the the three men arrested today (10/11/15)

And we still have three to ten Interstate -20 shootings with no attribution yet.

You've got to wonder what's in the water there. I think two things are contributing to making this seem shocking:

- The illusion that this sort of thing wasn't already happening as it much as it really was. Media interest is getting some attacks into the press that wouldn't have made it there otherwise, and AZ DPS has been so successful at catching the perpetrators that we're getting a relatively clear picture of what's been happening. Scratch the surface as we are in Phoenix and elsewhere, and you realize that we take a lot of pot shots at one another.
- A cultural or social phenomenon that has caused a real increase, across the country, in highway attacks. We're not just seeing more of the potshots, we're taking more of them.

 

[Footwarrior]

Well, when I first saw the courtroom video, it gave me a moment of pause. But now I don't know.

The fact the suspect apparently re-pawned the gun a few times is suspicious to me. Why did he do that? Did anyone verify with surveillance videos that this had in fact happened and was not falsified somehow? (i.e. we don't just go by the accounts of what the pawn store says).

Pawning the same item over and over is rather common for pawn shop clients.

 

[Hatfield]

3 arrested in new I-10 shootings, not connected to other freeway shootings
Posted: Oct 11, 2015 1:45 PM EDT
Updated: Oct 11, 2015 7:00 PM EDT
By Mike Gertzman

Three people were apprehended... multiple shootings on Interstate 10 early Sunday 10/11/15 morning, according to ADPS Trooper Tim Case.

1) a 2 a.m. report from a person on I-10 near the Broadway Curve, [who saw] the passenger in a black sedan traveling westbound point a handgun out the window and fire at least one shot. A Phoenix PD helicopter... followed the vehicle to an apartment complex.

2) "A short time later, there was another report of gunfire involving a black sedan, on I-10 westbound at 35th Ave. A person said a passenger in a black sedan fired a gun out of the passenger side window... .

Two were arrested at the apartment complex and a third at an undisclosed location. Investigators believe it is an isolated incident." [No detail on why.]

We've now seen nine arrests in connection with four sets of apparently unrelated attacks on moterists in the Phoenix area in three months:

- Window shatterings by three teen sling shot shooters
- Four I-10 9mm shootings allegedly by Leslie Merritt
- The road rage shooting allegedly by Hoffman
- The two or more shootings allegedly by the the three men arrested today (10/11/15)

And we still have three to ten Interstate -20 shootings with no attribution yet.

You've got to wonder what's in the water there. I think two things are contributing to making this seem shocking:

- The illusion that this sort of thing wasn't already happening as it much as it really was. Media interest is getting some attacks into the press that wouldn't have made it there otherwise, and AZ DPS has been so successful at catching the perpetrators that we're getting a relatively clear picture of what's been happening. Scratch the surface as we are in Phoenix and elsewhere, and you realize that we take a lot of pot shots at one another.
- A cultural or social phenomenon that has caused a real increase, across the country, in highway attacks. We're not just seeing more of the potshots, we're taking more of them.

With so many people being arrested in the different AZ shootings on the highway then I do think you may have something there. Although for the few weeks where the random shooter was very active I think that was what was so different and brought it to everyones attention.

The frequency and unusual shootings made it get into the news in AZ because it was very specific and a high frequency of shootings happened and the news media took off on it.

It seems to have calmed down some there and now peoples awareness is up and maybe some of the later incidents would be things that have occurred before and we were just never aware about them.

So I think what makes the AZ + CO incidents stand out is the frequency and location made a pattern stick out. They were very unusual in that way. When the same highways are used and the number of shootings goes way up then it grabs attention and it points to something different than the usual random shootings that may happen in other places once in a blue moon.

There was something very different about the AZ + CO highway shootings/shatterings. Just way too many of them in a short period of time all in the same general highways.

 

[trigger]

Another shooting near I-17

http://www.fox10phoenix.com/arizona-news/32184055-story

 

[Hatfield]

For the CO window shatterings I know some of them had pretty obvious pictures of the windows that sure looked like projectiles. Especially for the side windows since I would think any form of road debri would be less likely to hit a side window.

But just thinking of something that maybe could account for some of the incidents that were not obvious projectiles.

One thing I just thought of and cant remember if we talked about before is the possibility of CO using a new form of Snow Removal material. CO is unique in that they have lots of snow and take care of their roads good.

For any of the CO residents that we have does anybody remember hearing about any type of new material that CO may have been using on the roads like Salt/Sand/etc.
Or was there a shortage of salt recently?

Just wondering about that because I remember one year our state ran out of salt and used plain sand and it was terrible. LOL It didn't break windows but made a terrible mess on the roads. Since CO treats their roads regularly then just wondering about that.

Of course once it got into the warmer months then any shatterings during those months the material used for snow would mostly be gone by then.

 

[Hatfield]

Another shooting near I-17

http://www.fox10phoenix.com/arizona-news/32184055-story

This one seems random again in AZ. Middle of the day. WTH is going on?

"Police say there was no interaction between the victim and the suspect prior to the shooting.
Officers are currently looking for a suspect driving a foreign, newer, black station wagon "


At least with the AZ shootings LE is getting information about the suspect vehicles. With the NOCO shatterings there is seldom a witness description which makes the CO incidents really strange in that way.

Unless in CO maybe LE did get descriptions from the drivers and they didn't report on them as much. I kind of wonder about that since remember how the Orange Truck description came out all of a sudden. Where did that Orange Truck description come from?

I think LE in CO maybe getting descriptions from drivers and we are just not hearing about it. The task force probably has some information they are not telling the public.

Just guessing about that due to how it seems CO news is not as open about the shootings as compared to AZ has been.

 

[Forager]

Another shooting near I-17

http://www.fox10phoenix.com/arizona-news/32184055-story

Thank you for finding that for us, Trigger! I think that your "The World Has Gone Mad" tag analyzes the situation aptly.

 

[margarita25]

rsbm

This image made my heart drop. The school building. And its location / proximity...it's practically smack dab in the middle...I'm just sick. If there is any possible relation, whether via indiv or group, whatever the case, is this taunting? Coincidence? Copycat? Affiliate? I've got a really sick feeling now.

As always, thank you Forager. And please say hello to the Lovely Missus for me.

I was on vacation in CO beginning on March 23 - Maunday Thursday, April 2.

While traveling through the Denver area near Centennial, around noon, I was sitting in the passenger's seat when I when a noise that sounded like something hard hit my windshield on the bottom right hand corner. Within a minute or two a crack formed that appeared had begun at the bottom edge of the windshield.

I asked my friend, the driver, to pull off at the next exit. I googled for then phoned the nearest Toyota Dealership since I owned a Camry. We took the Camry nearby to Auto Nation Arapahoe. It was three miles tops from where I heard the loud pop. The body shop tech explained that the crack was not in the top layer of glass but was actually the underneath layer and likely caused from stress from a hard rock or something similar hitting that area near the windshield's frame. We left the vehicle for a new windshield to be installed.

We took a courtesy car to Twin Peaks on E. Arapahoe to wait for the windshield to be replaced. While there, we were informed by Auto Nation that it would take an extra day to install the new windshield so we booked a room at a nearby hotel for the night which was a bit annoying since the scenery was not nearly the same as what we were accustomed to enjoying on the magnificent western side of Denver.

I did not realize until my return home and checking into WS that the shattered windows were occurring. I am not claiming that the shooter hit my windshield but it sure is suspect to me now that I have learned more details about the areas and dates where the window shatterings have occurred.

 

[margarita25]

Here's a screenshot of the 4/28/15 window shatterings (the yellow circles, the rest of the window shatterings are hidden). You can also see the Romero, Jacoby, Anonymous Guy and Connole shootings (red stars) and the building shootings (orange stars). The range of the 4/28/15 incidents is about 40 miles, north to south (the red line). The entire range of the NoCO window shatterings only extends in either direction by another five miles or so. We only have a time of day for the more northern two of the 4/28/15 shatterings: "about 9:40 am" for one, and "about 9:50 am" for the next one, a mile or two further north.

In setting up the screen shot, I realized that I had the wrong location for the 4/28/15 2/3 shattering, too far south by many miles because I'd mistaken Weld Co. 50 for Larimer Co. 50. I've fixed it now. Apologies.

Omg...looks 4/28 like a joy ride, I want to review that day (and the days leading up to it)...My request for a triangulation re: the 3 reported April incidents on 4/28 (thanks again Forager) has produced a virtual straight line, there is no triangle. And the killings are embedded within. And the school building. And practically on top of the Romero incident...I'm not liking any of this. Not that I ever did but ykwim. And the other building shot at the bottom of the image is practically on top of one of the April 4/28/ incidents...

This feels like progress to me. All of this, and also, something about the 40 miles...reminds me of Sigg...ugh, what is it...maybe something about the "round trip" he made...jmo

I'm going back to here, the timeline posts (and spreadsheet / map details) re: those incidents on 4/28:
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...l-Shooter-Has-Colorado-Drivers-on-Edge/page21

Eta: see April 23 also at the above link
Eta: and April 24 (sigh)

Forager, if you get a chance can you please specifically graphically represent the above dates please onto the image above, just add them / pop them onto this image in your embedded quote? TIA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Eta: I also need to crosscheck the dates reported on the text timeline at the above link against the actual dates of incidents via the spreadsheet, specifically for 4/28.

 

[Hatfield]

Omg...looks 4/28 like a joy ride, I want to review that day (and the days leading up to it)...My request for a triangulation re: the 3 reported April incidents on 4/28 (thanks again Forager) has produced a virtual straight line, there is no triangle. And the killings are embedded within. And the school building. And practically on top of the Romero incident...I'm not liking any of this. Not that I ever did but ykwim. And the other building shot at the bottom of the image is practically on top of one of the April 4/28/ incidents...

This feels like progress to me. All of this, and also, something about the 40 miles...reminds me of Sigg...ugh, what is it...maybe something about the "round trip" he made...jmo

I'm going back to here, the timeline posts (and spreadsheet / map details) re: those incidents on 4/28:
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...l-Shooter-Has-Colorado-Drivers-on-Edge/page21

Eta: see April 23 also at the above link
Eta: and April 24 (sigh)

Forager, if you get a chance can you please specifically graphically represent the above dates please onto the image above, just add them / pop them onto this image in your embedded quote? TIA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Eta: I also need to crosscheck the dates reported on the text timeline at the above link against the actual dates of incidents via the spreadsheet, specifically for 4/28.

I wish we had a time for the 3rd southmost 4/28 shattering. The Two northern 4/28 shatterings were obviously related as they were ten minutes apart. I think that 3rd one in the south is related too and the time would confirm that if we had the time.

If we can ever find out the time of that southern 4/28 shooting it would tell us his direction of travel.

I wonder if he was going south out of the area OR north out of the area. If he went North then he could have either continued north to leave and stop for the day OR maybe loop back to the City area back home.

I think some of the NOCO shatterings/shootings made me think he lived rural East of Denver and then some others made me think he lives smack dab in the middle of the City on the West side of Denver. If there are multiple shooters for some of these then that may explain why I thought that from the map shootings.

The map helps us to see where we think the shooter(s) home is located.

 

[e-sherlockholmes]

He did have a lost puppy look about him, but I've got to believe that DPS has had enough time to go over the pawn shop evidence well enough by now that they know its solid. That's all they really have to hold him on, as I understand it. You're right to suggest that the pawn shop reporting be scrutinized, but it sounds like a good source of evidence: procedure generated reports from a third party that went on record with LE prior to the shootings. The trial will tell.

Yeah. I have confidence investigators know what they're doing. It was just the initial reports at the time of the arrest that raised doubts.

I still wouldn't trust anybody, including what the pawn store says. I'd like hard evidence that proves the suspect re-pawned the gun a few times by way of surveillance videos indicating such. I'm sure they have that proof as it should be pretty easy to produce. If not, then I'd be weary. After all, the gun used in the crime was just as easily accessible to employees of the pawn store or those of whom who had illicit access to the store, as it was to the alleged suspect who they claim had possession of the weapon.

 

[e-sherlockholmes]

Pawning the same item over and over is rather common for pawn shop clients.

Really? I thought most people would just pawn the item and go. I can't foresee it being very common for someone to back-to-back pawn/re-pawn items with high frequency. That would seem odd to me if someone did that every few days. Why not just keep the damn thing either with your persons or at the pawn store?

What is the motivation for doing that?

Are people treating it like 'liquidating' their assets to cash and only 'unpawn' something when they need it? Otherwise it goes back in as a pawned item and turned into cash. Basically patrons treat it like a rental service?

 

[Hatfield]

Yeah. I have confidence investigators know what they're doing. It was just the initial reports at the time of the arrest that raised doubts.

I still wouldn't trust anybody, including what the pawn store says. I'd like hard evidence that proves the suspect re-pawned the gun a few times by way of surveillance videos indicating such. I'm sure they have that proof as it should be pretty easy to produce. If not, then I'd be weary. After all, the gun used in the crime was just as easily accessible to employees of the pawn store or those of whom who had illicit access to the store, as it was to the alleged suspect who they claim had possession of the weapon.

Very good points. I agree and hope LE doesn't just take the reports at face value.

The way the person who was arrested was so adamant about being not guilty had me really thinking he may be telling the truth. And his dad also was convinced he was the wrong guy.

I know all perps say they aren't guilty but that one sounded convincing.

You are right that whoever had access to the pawn reporting tool could easily fake that it was repawned back and forth. It would sure be a devious way to use a gun that could never be traced back to someone if they think LE would believe the reports at face value.

The 3rd part reporting still does not take away that somebody in the store could just be entering the transactions even if someone never pawned the gun back and forth.

 

[Hatfield]

Really? I thought most people would just pawn the item and go. I can't foresee it being very common for someone to back-to-back pawn/re-pawn items with high frequency. That would seem odd to me if someone did that every few days. Why not just keep the damn thing either with your persons or at the pawn store?

What is the motivation for doing that?

Are people treating it like 'liquidating' their assets to cash and only 'unpawn' something when they need it? Otherwise it goes back in as a pawned item and turned into cash. Basically patrons treat it like a rental service?

I know these questions were not for me but wanted to give my 2 cents since I am reading posts on this thread with you this morning.

I think the frequency with his gun pawning records was a little too much all within a short period. That seems very strange.

Some people do pawn the same items periodically for money to make rent or bills but usually it would be like once a month or so when bills are due. His gun pawn records were just way too frequent within the same month and made it very strange to me.

When you pawn something you lose an administration fee each time so you do lose some money even if you come up with the money to get the item back out of pawn.
That gun was only getting a small amount of money too because the pawn amount is only a small percentage of its worth. So its not like the guy was getting a lot of money when he pawned it. Maybe 100-150 max for that gun.

So I do think the pawning records show someone was using that gun for some of the AZ shootings but I agree with you that I am not convinced yet it was the guy they arrested.

 

[Hatfield]

Just more info on pawn shops. Some people may not be aware of how they work since some states don't allow pawn stores.

There are two types of transactions you can do at a pawn shop.

You either Sell the item outright OR you pawn it.

In both types the pawn shop is only going to give you a smaller amount than what the item is worth because they need to make money themselves.

Selling it is obvious. You negotiate a price and your item is no longer yours. Done deal.

Pawning it you negotiate a price which is smaller than what the item is worth and the store gives you that money and they hold your item. Each month you have to pay a certain amount of money to keep the item in pawn. You still own the item so long as you keep paying the monthly fee. If you want item back then you pay back the original amount they gave you and you can get your item back minus any fees they tack on for their administration.

If you miss the monthly payment then a warning letter is sent to you that the store will take ownership of your item if you don't pay by a certain date. Once the expiration date goes by then your item is no longer your item. The Pawn shop owns it and they will then sell it to anybody.

You can buy it back if you get there in time before they sell it but there is no guarantee and the pawn shop can make you pay more than the pawn amount if they want to since they own it now and can sell it for whatever they want.

The pawn shops get a bad rap in the press but I think they are great and serve the public. Most pawn shops I have went to are really neat shops and have some cool stuff.

 

[e-sherlockholmes]

Very good points. I agree and hope LE doesn't just take the reports at face value.

The way the person who was arrested was so adamant about being not guilty had me really thinking he may be telling the truth. And his dad also was convinced he was the wrong guy.

I know all perps say they aren't guilty but that one sounded convincing.

You are right that whoever had access to the pawn reporting tool could easily fake that it was repawned back and forth. It would sure be a devious way to use a gun that could never be traced back to someone if they think LE would believe the reports at face value.

The 3rd part reporting still does not take away that somebody in the store could just be entering the transactions even if someone never pawned the gun back and forth.

Good point.

Lets be imaginative for a minute. If someone wanted to use a gun for a crime, what better way than gun store owners/employees who have access to a bunch of firearms that are not currently registered to anyone. Use it for the crime. Sold to somebody. Or, in the case of second hand guns, there may be a 'past owner' as the defacto suspect.

I saw one ABC interview with an employee of the pawn store. If I recall, his only point was that they had signatures of him repawning the gun by way of paperwork? I hope law enforcement verifies that with video surveillance too. How easy it must be to fake documents.

 

[e-sherlockholmes]

I know these questions were not for me but wanted to give my 2 cents since I am reading posts on this thread with you this morning.

I think the frequency with his gun pawning records was a little too much all within a short period. That seems very strange.

Some people do pawn the same items periodically for money to make rent or bills but usually it would be like once a month or so when bills are due. His gun pawn records were just way too frequent within the same month and made it very strange to me.

When you pawn something you lose an administration fee each time so you do lose some money even if you come up with the money to get the item back out of pawn.
That gun was only getting a small amount of money too because the pawn amount is only a small percentage of its worth. So its not like the guy was getting a lot of money when he pawned it. Maybe 100-150 max for that gun.

So I do think the pawning records show someone was using that gun for some of the AZ shootings but I agree with you that I am not convinced yet it was the guy they arrested.

Oh no, you are more than welcome to reply. My replies are open to everyone. I'm just curious about this high frequency re-pawning business that I am not familiar with. I've heard of people re-pawning things. But to do so with such a high frequency, like every few days, seems suspicious to me.

Yeah I agree. The way he re-pawned the gun a few times within the span of a few weeks seems way too suspicious. I am not sure what the poster meant when he said re-pawning is common behavior, if he meant it in terms of the frequency we are seeing with this case. In general, I would deem it kinda awkward for someone to come in every few days to pawn/re-pawn something.

I agree. You lost the fee, and isn't price partly determined by the agent manning the desk sometimes? So you might get a good deal one time, but another time you might get a bad deal. Theres too much frictional losses from the transactions that it makes little sense, financially, to be pawning/re-pawning. Might as well just keep the gun.

As far as from the suspect's perspective, isn't that a little hair raising, to be pawning and repawning guns around the times of a well publicized shooting, which will clearly link the suspect to the crime even more definitively than had someone just owned one gun throughout the entire duration of the crime spree? It almost seems like, to do such a thing, such a suspect wishes to implicate himself.