CO CO - Roger Ellison, 17, Cedaredge, 10 Feb 1981 #2

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Soundman said:
It really bugs me that JP never enlightened any of the Websleuths community about Roger’s supposed circumstances. IMO, given the details of what he has contributed here, I am inclined to believe that he fabricated the whole thing to deflect away from himself.
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Do you think Pash showed up under other names, Soundman?
 
Ciriii57 said:
Hi Everyone, I was recommended to read Roger's forum by a friend (you know who you are ;) ) and I know I am a decade late but wow it did not disappoint! Took me 2 days but I finally managed both threads. I must congratulate so many of you on sticking around and adding to this after over a decade!
There are a couple of opinions/questions I wanted to add, hopefully I won't repeat what's already been said before, while it's all still fresh in my mind. (I'm sorry I won't be inserting quotes directly from the threads but it's a huge thread and it'll take me 2 days to find all the quotes I want...I'll be paraphrasing I hope no one minds).

Before I start, I wanted to say that LE has always listed this as "probably murdered by someone he knew soon after he disappeared". Well that tells me everything I need to know. Clearly LE already know the answer and just never had enough evidence or enough guts to prosecute, otherwise surely it would have been much easier to keep it listed as a simple "runaway case" and forget about it. I feel coinfident that the LE position is correct.

1) So, Roger asked his lockermate to hold the door to the locker open as he needed to retrieve a book for his first lesson. My question is, where's the book? He grabbed the book from his locker so presumably wherever he went he was carrying the book. (this question also extends to whatever else he was carrying, was it usual for kids in the US to carry a school bag/backpack.satchel?) I know it seems like a small thing, but it has really bothered me.

2)One of Roger's lockermates had said "I hope Roger found what he was looking for". So does this mean that a conversation had happened at the locker that Roger was going to find something? Or a previous conversation perhaps..what was he looking for....?? justice, himself, something he'd dropped, evidence, his keys, a schoolbook....This just strikes me that this person knew exactly where Roger had gone that day.

3) Regarding Mr. Pash and this infamous assignment. I have to say I think us "sleuthies" ;) may have missed the boat on this one. It seems to me that he told us exactly what was in that assignment right from the start. He did it in a typically Pash way so that he could remain superior; in a tyoically teacher fashion he gave us the means to work it our for ourself but then he taunted WS by saying that no one would be smart enough to understand. The below is BBM what I think is significant:

Firstly, I don't see why the colours red or green would elicit the response of "a book". But that may be me resding too much into it. I personally focused in on the "social institutions" highlighted as he seemed to place them seperate to the others...tagged on the end. I take his "I think I may have added them" to mean "these are the ones to focus on". He never revealed exactly what Roger wrote, but I think he did tell us the subject. This was confirmed when he posted the below a couple of years later:


He was taunting us that we wouldn't be able to work it out and then I can almost hear him screaming at us the answer!
I am almost certain that Mr Pash was not involved in Roger's disappearance and had he not set this assignment we would never had heard of him. I am not sure why Roger's family took against him so. But I do think he knew who was involved and I think we are talking about someone high up like a priest, sheriff, town councillor, headteacher, coach...these kind of people.

4) That sighting by the poachers. I have to say that this seems perfectly legit to me. I, for one, would probably have not gotten myself involved either if I had seen what they saw...especially if this was a person with some influence who could have made my life hell.
Apart from it being very unlikely to lie in a death bed confession, the story was corroborated not just by the second witness but also both had polygraphs. I think it could fit in quite well with whoever took Roger taking him and executing him in a secluded spot.

Ok, as for my theories about what happened, I have 2 that are basically very similar:

A) Roger witnessed something highly illegal (rape for example) that would have been damaging enough to an influential person to destroy their lives. Unfortunately this distressed Roger enough that he could no longer keep the secret and was about to either tell or confront the person. Maybe he did in fact tell someone (headteacher or sheriff) but this person then told the wrongdoer as their loyalties were to this person. This person needed to silence Roger in order to keep their own life on track.

B) This one involves skiing (and I am not knowledgable in this area so please correct me). Roger had recently failed to male the olympic team, gutting for him I imagine. Is it possible that whoever was making the choice of who qualified was either corrupt and taking bribes or was operating some kind of "casting couch" scenario. You scracth my back and I'll make sure you get accepted. Roger refused and it played on his mind for a month or so and then threatened to expose this injustice. He sufferred for his good morals.

The thing that none of this explains is how Roger literally vanished from the school without being seen, unless the sighting of him with 2 men really was reliable and he did in fact find who he was looking for and confronted them...with tragic consequences.

It is all my opinion and just throwing out ideas. Let me know if you think I'm barking up the wrong tree.
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I don't know that retrieving a book from a locker is meaningful, after all that's one of the only things a student would've had in a locker in those days. But if it was a book that could've had meaning or given a clue based on it's title, subject etc. that could be useful...especially if it wasn't a book that was part of the curriculum.

We know there were no cell phones, websites, comment threads, and he probably wasn't going to put a notice in the local paper's classified section...could he have put a note IN a certain book for safe keeping? It doesn't seem likely that a teenager would plan a "if something happens to me, here is why" scenario, but you never know. It could've been something he wrote, or something (threatening letter or admission of a crime, etc.) written by another. Or a photo.

Or he simply needed a book for class and then was either coaxed to leave the school with someone else, or realized he'd forgotten a test or important homework was due and bailed.

Re Pash, I don't think he was responsible for Roger's disappearance. But it's curious that if he did know what happened (or had enough of a verifiable educated guess) he wouldn't have found a way to reveal it between the day Roger disappeared and his own death. Especially after he was long gone from Cedar Edge. I'd think once he was retired, and not as concerned in his professional reputation, he was clever enough that he could have revealed names/institutions while remaining fairly anonymous. Unless whoever took Roger knew that Pash knew who was responsible. Whom would one fear repercussions from? It's unlikely this was national security. Unless it was a classmate, someone similar in age, or a very young coach or "official higher up" at the time, it's likely that the immediate key players are deceased. Pash had nothing to gain (that we know of) by making up false 'leads' or even posting on the WS thread for his own amusement, but I can see why he'd lash out at mentions of his own involvement.

It would be interesting to know if Roger was known for leaving campus and whether that was allowed at any hour. If he didn't leave by car, was there anywhere to walk to; and walk to first thing in the morning (ie, not the local pizza shop hangout)?
 
DD Byrd said:
Re Pash, I don't think he was responsible for Roger's disappearance. But it's curious that if he did know what happened (or had enough of a verifiable educated guess) he wouldn't have found a way to reveal it between the day Roger disappeared and his own death.
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Pash is dead? When/where did he die?
 
DD Byrd said:
I don't know that retrieving a book from a locker is meaningful,
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Sorry i may not have been clear; I don't think the book is significant to the disappearance at all. What I think is significant is that it was in his possession when he disappeared, along with his orange/yellow backpack. Neither of these things have ever been found.

Regarding Pash, as I said he did reveal who was responsible in my opinion. He told us it was high up people in the town. He just never eleborated. He was never gonna tell us the whole story, he was far too arrogant for that! I think he enjoyed knowing a secret.

doublestop said:
When/where did he die?
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Quite a while ago. One of his ex pupils came on the thread a few pages back to tell us, he was quite shocked but did admit Pash was an arrogant prick. Did a bit of research and he received quite a few glowing obituaries and memories. By all accounts a very popular teacher.
 
"In 1998, a dying man summoned authorities. He told them that he wanted to clear his conscience by relaying an incident he and a friend had witnessed while deer poaching in the woods. He explained that the pair had stumbled onto a young man who resembled Roger, with his hands tied, being held at gunpoint by a man with a shotgun. He stated that they quickly fled the scene, vowing never to discuss what they’d seen. He said as they walked away, they heard a series of gunshots. The friend apparently corroborated the story. Police went to the wooded area the man described, but nothing was found." What would motivate a dying man to summon police to provide this information? Did he really see Roger? Who knows, but if he did, who would have a reason to shoot him dead with a shotgun? What would be the possible motives for this?
 
"John Pash posted the following response to Websleuths on Tuesday, July 28, 2009:

Hello Sleuthies

I use this term because it is obvious that you all lack the skill necessary to be a true sleuth. And what is that needed skill? The ability to reason, both deductively or inductively. What you all do is take a questionable rumor, factualize it so you can make it fit your needs, and then pat yourselves on the back thinking you have made a substantial advance in criminal investigations. It is rather obvious that you are a group of “wannabes”. So get out your yellow legal pad and pencil so we can begin the process. I found 2 other sites which I will include in this discussion- the Charley Project and Finding Roger Ellison. You may want to be wearing a trenchcoat and galooshes, and have your umbrella open, because it’s about to hit the fan."

As I said, arrogant, taunting, smug and bizarre -- his writing, attitude and demeanor remind me of the Zodiac's cruel rantings.
 
Ciriii57 said:
Regarding Pash, as I said he did reveal who was responsible in my opinion. He told us it was high up people in the town. He just never eleborated. He was never gonna tell us the whole story, he was far too arrogant for that! I think he enjoyed knowing a secret.
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I always wondered if that was a hint he figured people would be too dumb to figure out. Given his ego, I'd bet Mr Pash considered himself as a "high up" person in that hick town and this could have been a soft of confession.
 
Ciriii57 said:
Sorry i may not have been clear; I don't think the book is significant to the disappearance at all. What I think is significant is that it was in his possession when he disappeared, along with his orange/yellow backpack. Neither of these things have ever been found.

Regarding Pash, as I said he did reveal who was responsible in my opinion. He told us it was high up people in the town. He just never eleborated. He was never gonna tell us the whole story, he was far too arrogant for that! I think he enjoyed knowing a secret.


Quite a while ago. One of his ex pupils came on the thread a few pages back to tell us, he was quite shocked but did admit Pash was an arrogant prick. Did a bit of research and he received quite a few glowing obituaries and memories. By all accounts a very popular teache
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Ciriii57 said:
Sorry i may not have been clear; I don't think the book is significant to the disappearance at all. What I think is significant is that it was in his possession when he disappeared, along with his orange/yellow backpack. Neither of these things have ever been found.

Regarding Pash, as I said he did reveal who was responsible in my opinion. He told us it was high up people in the town. He just never eleborated. He was never gonna tell us the whole story, he was far too arrogant for that! I think he enjoyed knowing a secret.


Quite a while ago. One of his ex pupils came on the thread a few pages back to tell us, he was quite shocked but did admit Pash was an arrogant prick. Did a bit of research and he received quite a few glowing obituaries and memories. By all accounts a very popular teacher.
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John Pash (Deceased) of Paris, France last lived in Madera, CA USA

Classmate Profile for John Pash, Paris American High School, Paris, France 1952 - 1971
www.classcreator.com www.classcreator.com
 
Satch said:
Guys,

Has it ever been reported by anyone the time-frame as to when Pash shared that assignment and Roger's disappearance?

Satch
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Hi Satch. I’ve often thought ;,what if we could locate a former student in California who had JP as a teacher, and could recall the examples he used in his classes regarding Roger’s circumstances ? This would sure go a long way in knowing what happened. If we could track down where he taught, perhaps the School would have an Alumni site, and dialogue could be started in this regard.This is of course assuming what he posted is indeed true. Thoughts?
 
Danaya said:
It's been a while since I've looked into this case, was Pash's alibi not confirmed? I thought he was teaching class when Roger went missing that morning?
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Anaya, I believe his quote here on this thread was that he was in his classroom preparing to teach. Perhaps his first hour class was his planning hour for the day. If so he could have had opportunity.
 
theshadow45 said:
He would be turning 61 today.
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Which means so would his friends and classmates. Those below him in the high school, and certainly those in middle school or younger, if alive, would likely remember this. I hope more people that were local at the time weigh in, or find a way to share what they know. I find it highly unlikely there isn't a general consensus of what happened, or at least who was involved. An anonymous tip could blow this open, even a rumor could be unraveled and determined whether it had merit and then proceed from there.

Does anyone have any knowledge of Cedar Edge, as in, is this the type of place where folks stay and put down their own roots generation after generation? Or do people graduate and take off?
 
My cousin posted a picture, in remembrance, of the original "missing" flyer for Roger. I have this same original in one of my photo albums. So today in some down time at work I decided to google, and came across this website. Just wow. So nice to know that people are still looking and trying to find out. Roger was my cousin. I was only 11 when this happened, but remember so much the discussions within the family. The trauma that it caused. Hearing the hope when a new possible clue came up, then the despair when nothing came from it. For instance, I remember my mom saying that my poor uncle would go out every day when the bus was coming in the hopes that Roger would be on it. Heartbreaking. I remember there being thought that the Moonies (cult) took him. Not sure what ever came of that. I was just to young. Im so happy that there are still people looking and trying to figure it out. This is amazing to me. Well done, I think haha
 
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