Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #33

[cailleach]

AB 9/27/18
1. Revolting new details. Bodies were not discovered or recovered easily. Took close to 8 hours to get children out of oil tanks. Had to drain up to 700 barrels of oil. Guests, Professor Wesley Williams and Joe Scott Morgan, explain how children were put in and removed from tanks. Took a great deal of effort and technical knowledge to do this. Can’t see how C.W. pulled it off without thinking about it ahead of time. Because LE was trying to preserve forensic evidence they probably brought in a vacuum truck, works like a wet dry shop vac. Insert hose and drain. Have to empty oil before entering and opening hatch on side. Standard API12F tank design. There are Thief Hatches on tops of tanks, 8” in diameter, (very small) you can open and close them. Bottom of tank square opening is called Clean Out Manway, 2’ by 3’ rectangular port. Takes 64 bolts to open, but tank must be empty to open, or you leak oil all over the place. Thief hatches (8” wide) are designed to take a measurement of tank level. Children were found in tanks that were nearly full. At best that tanks were producing about 200 barrels per month. CW probably shifted oil from one tank to another in order to get girls in them. Requires knowledge and time to do it. If tanks were nearly full, estimating 500 gallons, it would take 3 months at 200 gallons per month to completely fill them up. Bodies wouldn’t have been discovered for at least 3 months. There is a pump that goes between the two tanks, CW could pump 1 tank into the other tank, and open the Clean Out Manway. No way could children fit in the Thief Hatch. CW left house at 5:30, it would take an hour each to empty each tank. (Using the pump between, not the vacuum truck.) Removing 128 bolts takes a lot of time. Because CW didn’t have enough time to do all this work, CW would have had to shoved them through the 8” Thief Hatches. Bodies had to have been manipulated (twisted and contorted) postmortem, in order to fit them through the 8” Thief Hatches. Rather gruesome task. When Jessica McClure fell into an oil well in 1987, that well was 8” wide, but Jessica McClure was 18 months old.
2. Guest, Police Officer, Sean Sticks Larkin explains that this situation is far from normal. Officers most important job is to contain the scene and to recover the evidence. If there’s no danger of evidence being contaminated, they call professionals for advice.
3. Guest, Wesley Williams, explains oil is fluid, flows quickly. Oil is not very difficult to remove from skin.
4. Yesterday, both SW’s mother and father were at SW’s house removing the belongings. SW’s brother and SW’s friend, Lauren Arnold, was there, too. This move was about removing memories. Children’s clothes and toys will be donated to local churches. Family heirloom pieces from SW’s side of family will be kept by family.
5. Social media has been ruthless and cruel to family and family is aware. Statement from family spokesperson. (See photo)
6. Guest Steve Helling from People Magazine agreed that people have been awful on Facebook.
7. Family stayed in a hotel, and besides removing articles from SW’s home, they attended a private memorial for SW at the Carbon Valley Rec Center. Watts family originally had family passes to rec center but they expired in March. SW’s mom, Sandy also visited with the District Attorney today. Family is part of the investigation.
8. New documents today. CW must turn over DNA and prints to DA.
9. Other evidence found at site according to Helling. Bag was marked Evidence #26, that means 25 pieces of evidence came before it. Most we don’t know about.
10. Autopsies will remain private for now. When they are completed they will be handed over to Defense, and Court will make decision to make them public.
11. Guest, Defense Attorney, David Beller, explained Defense Attorneys are doing own investigation with information that is available to them now.
12. SW’s Mom’s meetings with Prosecutor is fulfilling Colorado State Law. Prosecutors must keep family up to date on all aspects of case, every step. In the end, Prosecutors will likely ask SW’s family what they want to see happen. Do they want a trial, do they not want a trial?
Viewer Question
1. Will attorneys ever offer a plea deal where C.W. will be required to tell full, honest truth of his motive and exactly what really happened, and in return they would take the death penalty off the table? It happens. Plea discussions happen all the time. Conversations start early. Yes, they could make such a bargain, but it doesn’t happen often. Since Defense doesn’t have any discovery, they don’t know what they’re up against, so they’re not talking plea, yet.
2. When do you believe we will see autopsy results, forensics, and an actual trial on Chris Watts? Beller said, It’s going to be a long time, at least a year. AB agreed, and added if it’s going to be a Death Penalty case, 3 years. Elizabeth Smart case took 10 years to bring justice.
3. Do you think the family has come back to be told some things in person before autopsy is made public? The DA may want to spare family shocking details before public? Prosecutors do work with family, they do tell them things before public. Guest, Sea Sticks Larkin explained, DA offices have Victim Witness Centers. Advocates deal directly with family. A case of the magnitude will offer family support, so family is not blindsided in public. Sometimes these situations are hard on LE, there are counselors to help LE, as well.

Once again, many thanks, @Layla123

 

[idfinch]

In your opinion, is this a realistic list of accomplishments to have achieved before noon after 3 hours of sleep?

As a person who has a chronic illness that results in a lot of fatigue and pain, I rarely get more than 4 hours of sleep broken up into parts. Most times less. If I wake up and I can feel that it is even a halfway good day, halfway doable? You bet! I grab a sugar-free Rockstar and power and push myself through as much as I possibly can.

IMO many people with chronic illnesses learn to maximize time and energy that way because as Shannan said in one of her videos, paraphrased, sometimes you feel good and then 10 minutes later you feel awful and plans change.

 

[Allabouttrial]

I believe it! All five of mine are in school. We wake up at 5am, the first three are ready and out the door to the bus stop at 6:10. The other two ride a separate bus that arrives around 6:35. Everyone showers, gets dressed, snacks and waters packed, hair done (I have four girls... talk about a pain!), etc... all in that time frame.

I can move fast when I need to. And I do. I imagine Shanann was the same way.

Let's not forget SW had Lupus and fibromyalgia though, that surely must have impacted her somewhat.

 

[molly1255]

ugh this is so sad reading too, knowing they had less than a week to live at that point...

And that was working like a slave, trying to be a great mother and wife. It breaks my heart.

 

[riolove77]

I thought it was decided that images and videos don't always paint an accurate picture of real life though?

I think the distinction here though is that there's a fuss being made by some about how she was always on these trips and out of town and he was home and responsible, but it appears he was with her on a lot of these.

 

[MsBetsy]

AB 9/27/18
1. Revolting new details. Bodies were not discovered or recovered easily. Took close to 8 hours to get children out of oil tanks. Had to drain up to 700 barrels of oil. Guests, Professor Wesley Williams and Joe Scott Morgan, explain how children were put in and removed from tanks. Took a great deal of effort and technical knowledge to do this. Can’t see how C.W. pulled it off without thinking about it ahead of time. Because LE was trying to preserve forensic evidence they probably brought in a vacuum truck, works like a wet dry shop vac. Insert hose and drain. Have to empty oil before entering and opening hatch on side. Standard API12F tank design. There are Thief Hatches on tops of tanks, 8” in diameter, (very small) you can open and close them. Bottom of tank square opening is called Clean Out Manway, 2’ by 3’ rectangular port. Takes 64 bolts to open, but tank must be empty to open, or you leak oil all over the place. Thief hatches (8” wide) are designed to take a measurement of tank level. Children were found in tanks that were nearly full. At best that tanks were producing about 200 barrels per month. CW probably shifted oil from one tank to another in order to get girls in them. Requires knowledge and time to do it. If tanks were nearly full, estimating 500 gallons, it would take 3 months at 200 gallons per month to completely fill them up. Bodies wouldn’t have been discovered for at least 3 months. There is a pump that goes between the two tanks, CW could pump 1 tank into the other tank, and open the Clean Out Manway. No way could children fit in the Thief Hatch. CW left house at 5:30, it would take an hour each to empty each tank. (Using the pump between, not the vacuum truck.) Removing 128 bolts takes a lot of time. Because CW didn’t have enough time to do all this work, CW would have had to shoved them through the 8” Thief Hatches. Bodies had to have been manipulated (twisted and contorted) postmortem, in order to fit them through the 8” Thief Hatches. Rather gruesome task. When Jessica McClure fell into an oil well in 1987, that well was 8” wide, but Jessica McClure was 18 months old.
2. Guest, Police Officer, Sean Sticks Larkin explains that this situation is far from normal. Officers most important job is to contain the scene and to recover the evidence. If there’s no danger of evidence being contaminated, they call professionals for advice.
3. Guest, Wesley Williams, explains oil is fluid, flows quickly. Oil is not very difficult to remove from skin.
4. Yesterday, both SW’s mother and father were at SW’s house removing the belongings. SW’s brother and SW’s friend, Lauren Arnold, was there, too. This move was about removing memories. Children’s clothes and toys will be donated to local churches. Family heirloom pieces from SW’s side of family will be kept by family.
5. Social media has been ruthless and cruel to family and family is aware. Statement from family spokesperson. (See photo)
6. Guest Steve Helling from People Magazine agreed that people have been awful on Facebook.
7. Family stayed in a hotel, and besides removing articles from SW’s home, they attended a private memorial for SW at the Carbon Valley Rec Center. Watts family originally had family passes to rec center but they expired in March. SW’s mom, Sandy also visited with the District Attorney today. Family is part of the investigation.
8. New documents today. CW must turn over DNA and prints to DA.
9. Other evidence found at site according to Helling. Bag was marked Evidence #26, that means 25 pieces of evidence came before it. Most we don’t know about.
10. Autopsies will remain private for now. When they are completed they will be handed over to Defense, and Court will make decision to make them public.
11. Guest, Defense Attorney, David Beller, explained Defense Attorneys are doing own investigation with information that is available to them now.
12. SW’s Mom’s meetings with Prosecutor is fulfilling Colorado State Law. Prosecutors must keep family up to date on all aspects of case, every step. In the end, Prosecutors will likely ask SW’s family what they want to see happen. Do they want a trial, do they not want a trial?
Viewer Question
1. Will attorneys ever offer a plea deal where C.W. will be required to tell full, honest truth of his motive and exactly what really happened, and in return they would take the death penalty off the table? It happens. Plea discussions happen all the time. Conversations start early. Yes, they could make such a bargain, but it doesn’t happen often. Since Defense doesn’t have any discovery, they don’t know what they’re up against, so they’re not talking plea, yet.
2. When do you believe we will see autopsy results, forensics, and an actual trial on Chris Watts? Beller said, It’s going to be a long time, at least a year. AB agreed, and added if it’s going to be a Death Penalty case, 3 years. Elizabeth Smart case took 10 years to bring justice.
3. Do you think the family has come back to be told some things in person before autopsy is made public? The DA may want to spare family shocking details before public? Prosecutors do work with family, they do tell them things before public. Guest, Sea Sticks Larkin explained, DA offices have Victim Witness Centers. Advocates deal directly with family. A case of the magnitude will offer family support, so family is not blindsided in public. Sometimes these situations are hard on LE, there are counselors to help LE, as well.

I remember them saying it was a huge and time consuming effort to retrieve the bodies, but the part about him having to stuff them though such a small hole is new to me. That would explain why he didn't put his wife's body in them But even with the kids he must have had to break bones to stuff them in there. Do we know for a fact this info is reliable? So horrible. Was there any mention if them being in bags? I would think they were not. Just imagining what he had to do to those poor little bodies to get them through such a small space. . Maybe that's what he was doing during the few hours after the murder, manipulating the bodies, if he killed them all right away, or the girls before she came home. Jmo

 

[Allabouttrial]

I think the distinction here though is that there's a fuss being made by some about how she was always on these trips and out of town and he was home and responsible, but it appears he was with her on a lot of these.

Oh I don't believe I saw people saying that.

 

[CommonLoonatic]

Let's not forget SW had Lupus and fibromyalgia though, that surely must have impacted her somewhat.

No doubt that it did. But, you can still power through quite a bit. I have severe sciatic nerve pain this pregnancy and I still get everything done (and cry once I can sit) because I have to do it and I can't let the pain interfere.

That's just the reality of responsibilities.

 

[idfinch]

I thought it was decided that images and videos don't always paint an accurate picture of real life though?

It is an accurate picture of the fact that he went with her on several of these Thrive trips and did benefit from her work with the MLM. The photos and locations are what they are, nothing more.

It has been implied in various posts throughout the threads, that he was stuck at home with the housework and the kids and was prime for resentment and an affair because of her MLM obsession and resulting neglect or mistreatment of her husband. This shows that he did in fact get to travel as well. JMO.

 

[roteone]

I can only guess what he was doing the entire time she was gone.

I have given this a lot of thought and I can't get my head around what he actually did (other than the AP's) Like did any ounce of him miss his family truly on any level? The precursor to his actions.

 

[mtnlites]

Let's not forget SW had Lupus and fibromyalgia though, that surely must have impacted her somewhat.

That is why my comment mentioned chronic illness.

 

[gitana1]

She did discuss some new information. I was hoping @Layla123 would have posted her recap.

She had someone on who is an expert in the design of the oil tanks the babies were located in. It seems the hole at the top was 8" in diameter. My stomach is still in knots thinking about HOW he could have fit them in there.

She posted it. I hope what they stated is in error.

I mean really people? Breaking the bones of your babies' bodies in order to protect the wife you killed in rage because she murdered them?

Seriously?

This is beyond the bounds of reason. It all is.

 

[mtnlites]

Which I would concede to but I don't understand how it can be then used to prove a point by the same people who dismissed the said images and videos as being a true representation.

As I understand it, the images were in response to the statement that CW was responsible for the bulk of the childcare and chores because SW traveled a lot and was often gone. @PommyMommy took the time to share and label photos to show that CW did accompany her on many of said trips.

 

[PommyMommy]

And she carefully made five whole weeks of daily dinners for him - that's 35.

But she's a liar according to some because she acted like everything was going well in her marriage in SM posts.

So I guess poor henpecked CW did it all. And managed to fool around too!

Gotta get me some Thrive!

All kidding aside, my suspicion is that he complained about SW to a family that disliked her and felt he shouldn't have to do work around the house. Felt he was maltreated for being "bossed" by his wife.

And I have this suspicion that CW likely escaped critique by his family by shifting blame to SW for things like moving to Colorado or not visiting enough. Etc.

And allowing allegations that she wasn't a good enough wife. Or mom.

So now we have this narrative that he was totally henpecked and did everything while she sat around and tried to get attention for her and her kid's illnesses. I guess.

It all fits. And I don't know anything about his family and don't follow on SM, but has anyone from his family said anything? I understand that they're grieving and have suffered an unimaginable tragedy, but it seems like there is usually somebody who issues a family statement asking for prayers, thanking law enforcement, etc. Like a cousin or a sibling, perhaps. I certainly don't blame them though, for wanting to remain anonymous. What a horrible situation he's put them in.

MOO

 

[Deleted member 230544]

Shekkiec said: ↑
@Jennifer17 on thread 25 page 62 as I stated CW regularly did household chores as per our VI @Trinket78 who knew both SW and CW

Yes, that is true but we have the right to believe or not to believe the VI as long as we are not disrespectful.

I respect that a VI may have special inside knowledge about a case and/or the individuals involved in the case because they have known the family prior to the incident and they have first hand personal experiences and insight about the family ~ this is extremely valuable information for the forum.

 

[Allabouttrial]

It is an accurate picture of the fact that he went with her on several of these Thrive trips and did benefit from her work with the MLM. The photos and locations are what they are, nothing more.

It has been implied in various posts throughout the threads, that he was stuck at home with the housework and the kids and was prime for resentment and an affair because of her MLM obsession and resulting neglect or mistreatment of her husband. This shows that he did in fact get to travel as well. JMO.

And I totally appreciate that, except I don't think I've seen people say she was always away without him. I do know from her SM that she went on a few trips without him, 2 to Dallas, 1 to AZ and I think there were a couple more.

Were children allowed on these getaways or was it just for adults?

 

[Alethea]

In the last thread I saw a question about why people are calling the oil in the tanks "crude oil" and someone asked if it was just to make it sound more sinister. In my day job I actually specialize in commodities fraud, including trading in crude oil.

Crude oil is the name for unrefined petroleum products. It's called "crude oil" because it's the original fossil fuel which is refined into gasoline, diesel, and petrochemicals. So the distinction is unrefined crude oil versus refined petroleum products. It is the standard name for the product in the oil and gas industry.

 

[PhoneJockey]

I also note that their house was likely upside down but if there was any equity, SW would likely get it all if they divorced since they apparently purchased the home with proceeds from her separate property (so separate property reimbursement to her), IIRC. Unless she was dead of course. Then she'd get nothing.

SBM

I thought that I remembered reading several threads back that it was figured out through public records that she didn't really get anything when it came to the sale of her home in NC and that the downpayment placed on the CO home was very minscule? I'm so sorry that I don't have time to search out those threads/posts but maybe someone else here will remember more than I do, or the person who discovered that info will remember and set me straight?

 

[roteone]

She posted it. I hope what they stated is in error.

I mean really people? Breaking the bones of your babies' bodies in order to protect the wife you killed in rage because she murdered them?

Seriously?

This is beyond the bounds of reason. It all is.

You hit the nail on the head gitana, it truly is beyond the bounds of reason.

 

[gitana1]

I thought it was decided that images and videos don't always paint an accurate picture of real life though?

Well he was definitely on those trips.

 

[CommonLoonatic]

And I totally appreciate that, except I don't think I've seen people say she was always away without him. I do know from her SM that she went on a few trips without him, 2 to Dallas, 1 to AZ and I think there were a couple more.

Were children allowed on these getaways or was it just for adults?

I believe adults only. Wasn't it said somewhere that her parents would fly in to watch the kids while they went on trips? I could be remembering that incorrectly.