Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #34

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Hey Everyone,

A bit of clarification.

Please, no more discussion on the viability of Shanann's company or whether her company was or wasn't a pyramid scheme. No more digging up documents or complaints or anything to do with the function of the company. The fact is Shanann's company is not what we are discussing.

If want to discuss if job stress may have contributed to Shanann and Chris' relationship problems please make sure it is in the realm of reality and not the Twilight Zone.

Thank you,
Tricia
 
I am posting the evidence we know of again as some have asked. If anyone has other evidence to add please copy and add.

Evidence of triple murder:

1. Dad claims he saw a blue child on a baby monitor at night.

2. The coincidence of two people, unrelated by blood, both reacting to something in a short span of time by losing their minds and committing homicide, defies reason.

3. The coincidence of those same people both committing homicide in the exact same manner -strangulation- is unlikely.

4. A father passionate enough with love for his children, to kill at the sight of them being harmed, would be desperate beyond reason to save them. But:
a. Dad failed to call 911 to try to save his children. Even if he thought they were beyond help, a parentslove is so intense they will desperately and irrationally try for help that will never come.
b. There is no account of him throwing off the mother and working desperately to revive them or resuscitate them. Hell, total strangers have performed CPR on a child's corpse in rigor. (Cooper Harris case). But a passionately loving dad didn't even try in this case?

5. The dad failed to call 911 after killing his wife in a supposed fury of emotion.

6. Dad also failed to run screaming onto the lawn for help or in anguish.
In cases of such Greek tragedy magnitude either 5 or 6 usually comes into play.

7. This entire scene - the "emotional argument", the vicious strangulation of two children, the father witnessing the incomprehensible and reacting with murderous fury and anguish - all of it was totally silent. Except for the poor dog howling that night. How do we know? Because the houses are in close proximity and neighbors mentioned hearing nothing but the dog the next day IIRC.

8. CW did not scream or wail in anguish so great that it caused him to murder his wife. Not one report of such sounds.

9. CW supposedly lost his mind in grief and anguish. However he regained it in moments in a manner that does not comport with a true mental break. In cases we have seen where people lose it and commit murder, they are typically either wailing on the lawn and to 911 operators or they are in an apparent psychotic state- not lying about what happened, not covering it up, not able to function normally at all. See thumbnail of Julie Schenecker as an example of what this looks like. Police interview Julie Schenecker after kids found dead

10. CW, after such an insanely, horrific Greek tragedy of a scene, calmly loaded up the bodies of his wife and children in order to conceal their deaths and dispose of them. We know this because a neighbor stated she witnessed him leaving. (No reports of wailing and she said, IIRC, the truck drove normally. So no veering, spinning of tires or other signs of lack of composure). And it's apparently on video.

11. CW, a man passionately in love enough with his kids to erupt in murderous rage when they're harmed, did not attempt to give them a burial that comports psychologically with the love and bond parents have with their kids. Death Rituals Reported by White, Black, and Hispanic Parents Following the ICU Death of an Infant or Child
A Global History of Child Death

12. Instead he dumps them in two separate vats of oil. Not together. No way to commemorate their lives. Concealed. Discarded. In a manner that veers from any known traditional burial rite of any kind.

13. CW went to work and monitored the ring video of his house. After the horrific Greek tragedy he just endured. He went to work. And monitored the video of his front door.

14. CW left a few voice messages and sent some texts to the wife he knew was dead, thus calmly concealing what happened.

15. CW calmly called SW's friend after she came to the door and he saw her on the ring video. He asked what was going on. We know this because he stated as much and this is corroborated by the friend.

16. CW rushed home - blowing stop signs and with beating heart, according to him- when CW came to the house and expressed alarm. The first time we have heard of a hint of emotion on his part since the horrific murders of his kids supposedly by his wife and his heat of passion killing of her, occurs when he the authorities are about to get involved.

17. CW cooly lied to the friend about where SW was supposed to be that day and why she wasn't at home. After he lost his mind the night before. He is calm and able to work to conceal those events.

18. There is not one hint of brief reactive psychosis or drug induced psychosis in CW's demeanor and behavior since 5:15 am the morning of the deaths, nor the next day as he gives calm and detailed interviews to the media. His pupils are normal. He is not slurring speech. He does not have a vacant stare. He exhibits no delusions or paranoia. He is not showing emotional lability. (I'm no expert in psychology but have seen a few psychotic people due to psychotic breaks or drugs and it's easy to research).

19. CW shows no anguish, depression, grief, concern, sadness or despair during his stoic media interviews, despite having supposedly been so deranged by his passionate love for his kids that he killed their attacker. His eyes are dry. Not red. No signs of puffiness from weeping. His face is smooth and calm. He looks well rested. No bags under his eyes. He smiles. He grins. He smirks. All with the knowledge that his insane wife savagely murdered his precious babies causing him to lose his mind with anguish. And with the knowledge that the people he loved so fiercely it caused him to kill, are rotting in separate vats of oil.

20. CW calmly and continuously lies to the media about the whereabouts of his dead wife and dead children.

21. CW systematically works with LE to track down his wife and kids. Brainstorming. Supplying numbers and addresses. Calling people. All the while knowing they are dead and decomposing.

22. CW is questioned and lies about having an affair. A motive in many murders of wives.

23. SW was pregnant. (A circumstance present in vast numbers of murders of spouses or parents by men).

24. Some people and report that CW seemed distant with his wife and kids in the weeks leading up to this monstrous event.

25. CW was not hospitalized for any reason after this tragedy.

A couple of things from the CO model jury instructions:

D:01 DIRECT AND CIRCUMSTANTIAL EVIDENCE—NO DISTINCTION

A fact may be proven by either direct or circumstantial evidence. Under the law, both are acceptable ways to prove something. Neither is necessarily more reliable than the other.


E:03 PRESUMPTION OF INNOCENCE, BURDEN OF PROOF, AND REASONABLE DOUBT

Reasonable doubt means a doubt based upon reason and common sense which arises from a fair and rational consideration of all of the evidence, or the lack of evidence, in the case. It is a doubt which is not a vague, speculative or imaginary doubt, but such a doubt as would cause reasonable people to hesitate to act in matters of importance to themselves.

https://www.courts.state.co.us/userfiles/file/Court_Probation/Supreme_Court/Committees/Criminal_Jury_Instructions/2017/COLJI-Crim 2017 - Final.pdf
 

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Here are the verified posters in the Watts Case,

Isalybra - verified friend of Shanann

Trinket78 - verified insider

Colorado303 - verified insider

Amandaa - verified lawyer

Mrspratcher. - verified lawyer

Amandaa and Mrspratcher are posting on the Watts thread, however, anywhere they would like to post as verified lawyers on Websleuths is perfectly fine.


You must treat all verified members on Websleuths with respect. If you don't believe them please scroll past. It is not OK for you to call out a verified member and challenge them as to whether or not they are telling the truth. This includes anything passive aggressive or posting in a way where you tapdance around what you really mean but we can all tell you are questioning the truthfulness of the verified member.

...and of course our illustrious verified attorney and long time member Gitana1.
 

In watching CW's interview again, I get the feeling CW HATED SW. Absolutely hated her, and that the MLM business was a huge annoyance to him. When he says that it's normal for SW to ignore phone calls from him but not "her people", I feel like that bothered him quite a bit.

I also notice, when he speaks of doing things for the girls like telling them what not to eat, or seeing them watch Bubble Guppies, he says "I miss that". It hasn't even been 24 hours at this point, but he talks as if a substantial amount of time has passed since the girls disappeared. IMO, that suggests he knew he was going to kill them for days, even weeks before he actually did, and they were already dead in his eyes.

Also, he never shut down the interview. He waited for the next question until the reporter was done. No urgency to wrap it up, to check his phone or to hop in his car and start searching. The interview almost seemed like a "test run" to see if he could get through it without cracking.

Bringing this over from the previous thread.

I just re-watched the interview and wow, you are correct. It's like he's thinking back to old memories of them as opposed to a series of things that theoretically would have happened the previous day.

I think I missed it because I was so focused on the gobbledygook that he says right before that part. First he says he hopes SW is safe and with the kids, as if they may have gone missing separately. That sounds really nuts until we find out she actually was not with the kids. He then does this whole series of "ifs". If they are safe, they will come back. Well they aren't, so they won't. If they are not safe AND someone has them, I want them back. They are not safe but no one has them, so you don't want them back. There were several posters yesterday who pointed out just how much he was revealing and it's quite chilling.
 
Wow! I didn't even realize this and the logic makes total sense. I'm sure LE took notice and was really evaluating everything he said during those interviews very closely.
I think LE were totally onto him before he even did the interviews. From the sounds of what the 9News journalist was saying in that interview, CW was expressing concern to the journalist pre-interview (on the phone) about possibly having the finger pointed at him. To me, the journalist sounds skeptical about what CW's real concerns are.
It's hard to hear as the audio on the journo isn't great and apologies if I haven't transcribed it 100% accurately but this is what I hear the journalist saying around 2.55mins in.

"I wanted to ask you a little bit about the hard part. Your first thought is: 'Where are they? I want them back.' Your second thought is, you know, your friends were telling me, you've got some... and we kind of heard from you a little over the phone... You're also... your second thought is that you're afraid people think you may have done something."

 
Please continue the discussion here and please keep the following points in mind:

Welcome to all new members. Please take a moment to familiarize yourselves with our Rules and Terms of Service (TOS).

Do NOT personalize your posts or direct them in any way toward another poster. This is not Facebook. Be respectful whether you agree with another poster or not. We have a helpful "ignore" feature if you can't stand to read a particular poster's thoughts. Otherwise, just scroll and roll if you do not have anything constructive to contribute to the line of discussion.

Do not tell others how or what to post. Do not attempt to moderate the thread yourselves. Those are all TOS violations. Use the "Report" feature if you have a problem with a post or another poster and let the moderators handle it.

Do NOT bring rumors and gossip here from Facebook. It is against TOS and it serves no purpose here other than to stir the pot. We are allowing discussion of the defense put forward by CW's legal team, but we will not allow or tolerate any bashing of SW or her children. Leave that nonsense on Facebook or expect to receive warning points and possibly a timeout.

Thank you.
 
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In this case, he stood on the porch of the murder scene. And slept there the night before.

He talked about his kids, his wife and family and lied about their whereabouts. But he talked in detail about the kids "barrel rushing" him and "cuddling up" on their character couches. He talked with fondness about disciplining them at dinner.

So no avoidance.

He showed no negative emotions at all.

Oh I'm sure he felt detached from his family before he decided to start strangling them all to death.

He certainly seemed detached from them on the porch. But numb? Nope. He showed some nervousness for himself. And some dupers delight. That's not "numb" IMO.

Why is this guy the ONLY family member of a murder victim that we have evidence of who has manifested PTSD in such a manner?

Does PTSD include lying? Concealing a horrible crime? Failing to call 911 for help? Showing off a t-shirt? Driving 50 miles with your murdered family in the back seat and cramming your babies through an 8 inch diameter hole?

And then you're forgetting something important from your link:

"Post-traumatic stress disorder symptoms may start within one month of a traumatic event, but sometimes symptoms may not appear until years after the event. These symptoms cause significant problems in social or work situations and in relationships. They can also interfere with your ability to go about your normal daily tasks."

This wasn't a month later. It was the next day and the day after.

And he seemed to function pretty well though. I mean he looked clean, well groomed and rested, he ate, we know that, he worried about his appearance in the media interviews, according to the Thayers, he had the presence of mind to carefully conceal the bodies, pretend to be working, create a story about where Shanann and the girls were and why Nickole shouldn't worry, made up a great excuse about the garage key pad being broken so they couldn't get in without him, and spent a ton of time "working" with LE, calling and texting people to ask if they had seen his missing family, all while knowing one was under some dirt and two were floating in oil tanks. Seemed to have no problems functioning.

How about delayed grief? You know something? That's one of the best excuses I've seen on here to try to explain away his lack of emotion for the horrific murders of his babies.

Maybe he was too busy covering up the crime and trying to protect himself to feel immediate grief. Ok. I can ponder that.

But people with delayed grief don't have the opposite of grief. They don't smile or grin or show off a t-shirt. They just don't wail maybe or allow themselves to feel the deep pain.

And again, what are the odds that he is the one parent that we can find evidence of that just witnessed the murders of his babies and somehow was able to feel...nothing for them. To completely delay his grief. And not only to do that, but to do the opposite and smile and grin?

The symptoms of delayed grief also include apathy and depression. What he showed instead was a fear of getting caught. In fact, he worked super hard to not get caught. That doesn't sound like he was apathetic or depressed. It sounds like he was super busy.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/fixing-families/201706/six-signs-incomplete-grief?amp

So what about denial? Well, I think it's kind of hard to deny that your wife just murdered your kids when you drove 50 miles with their corpses in the back seat, then removed their bodies from the truck, one by one, and jammed their little bodies through a small hole.

Denial means pretending something didn't happen. Removing it from your mind. Ignoring it. Distancing yourself from it.

Not willfully trying to conceal what happened to the person which necessitates constant reaffirmation of the things you're trying to deny.

For this cat to have been successful in trying to conceal the murders of his family, he would have to know they had been murdered and be very aware of that fact.

Which he knew when he backed up his truck into the garage.
Which he knew when one be one he dragged their bodies from where they were killed, bagged them and stuffed them in the back seat of his vehicle.
Which he knew as he calmly drove away from his house and 50 miles away to a remote worksite, to dispose of their corpses.
Which he knew when he arrived and one by one removed those corpses from the truck.
Which he knew when he carried Bella up the steps to the oil tank.
Which he knew when he stuffed her body through a hole.
Which he knew when he carried Celeste up the steps to an oil tank.
Which he knew when he stuffed Celeste's little body through a hole.
Which he knew when he dragged his wife out of the back seat.
Which he knew with every shovel full of dirt he dug of her shallow grave.
Which he knew as he placed her body in that grave.
Which he knew as he covered her with dirt.
Which he knew when he monitored his ring camera video from his worksite.
Which he knew when he talked to NUA.
Which he knew when he lied about where his family was supposed to be that day.
Which he knew when he pretended he the police couldn't enter because the garage code was conveniently broken.
Which he knew as he told the police he had no idea where they were.
Which he knew as he lied to the media in three, separate interviews, about when he last saw them.
Which he knew when he lied to the media about his knowledge of their whereabouts.
Which he knew as he lied about his affair. Twice.
Which he knew as he told the police he would tell what really happened, if he could talk to his dad first.

Denial? Sounds like a lot of effort to conceal the existence of something that he is supposedly pretending to himself never happened.

That's a ton of constant in your face, interactive and self-imposed reminders of the thing you supposedly are denying occurred.

Thank you, Gitana! Bravo.
 
Bluff Posted:
My post referred to the possibility that CW may have experienced PTSD symptoms after the traumatic events unfolded. What those events were that morning we do not know at this time.


[from previous thread]

You don't believe his version of the traumatic events?
 
Alright, so I just tested the viability of fitting an average sized 4-year old into a hole with an 8inch diameter. My niece is almost 5, but she’s a little on the small side, so I think it’s a decent comparison. I used a ruler and string to measure her at her widest points.
The clear issue is the shoulders. She is about 9.5 inches from blade to blade.


Without knowing Bella’s exact size, it is difficult to determine how much force he would have had to exert in order to make her fit. But he would have had to use force. The autopsy results will obviously provide some answers here, as even if he angled her in some way, there would almost certainly be clear marks left on her body.
Yes! Great minds do think alike, and I agree entry force required.

I also tried similar experiment this morning-- simulating entry through an 8 inch "thief hatch." I found that if holding arms together over the head, the shoulders will collapse some, but not enough not to catch on the gasket. Although a crude greased body would make it easier, force would still be required. However, I did find that removing the 8 inch hatch would only require 16 bolts (fewer bolts than 24 x 36 inch manway), and provide a 10-3/8 inch circle for the normal 8 inch opening on an API storage tank. More resources for spec nerds at link below:
2018 API Storage Tank Conference & Expo
 
Bluff Posted:
My post referr ed to the possibility that CW may have experienced PTSD symptoms after the traumatic events unfolded. What those events were that morning we do not know at this time.


[from previous thread]

You don't believe his version of the traumatic events?

@katydid23 I don't believe or disbelieve CW's version of events. I am waiting until all the evidence is compiled and presented before I am able to commit to any one scenario of events. This is not to say that I am not appalled by his actions though.
 
Yes! Great minds do think alike, and I agree entry force required.

I also tried similar experiment this morning-- simulating entry through an 8 inch "thief hatch." I found that if holding arms together over the head, the shoulders will collapse some, but not enough not to catch on the gasket. Although a crude greased body would make it easier, force would still be required. However, I did find that removing the 8 inch hatch would only require 16 bolts (fewer bolts than 24 x 36 inch manway), and provide a 10-3/8 inch circle for the normal 8 inch opening on an API storage tank. More resources for spec nerds at link below:
2018 API Storage Tank Conference & Expo

Oh wow. 10 inches would probably do it. Good thinking.
 
The only thing I can possibly compare it to was the two very sad times we buried our beloved pets. Both died of old age and had been with us for a very long time. We gave our 22 yr old cat and our 14 yr old shih Tzu and very loving and tearful, respectful burials. Both were wrapped in their blankets we had used on their comfy pillow beds.

We buried them in a deep grave in our back garden area, and put memorial stones in place to remember them by.

I cant even imagine cramming them into an oil tank.
 
The only thing I can possibly compare it to was the two very sad times we buried our beloved pets. Both died of old age and had been with us for a very long time. We gave our 22 yr old cat and our 14 yr old shih Tzu and very loving and tearful, respectful burials. Both were wrapped in their blankets we had used on their comfy pillow beds.lo

We buried them in a deep grave in our back garden area, and put memorial stones in place to remember them by.

I cant even imagine cramming them into an oil tank.
Me either. I was upset when I sold my family home and had to leave three pets behind buried in the back yard.
I brough the three little cross markers to the new home and they are lined up side by side along the back fence and one has been added since then.
 
Me either. I was upset when I sold my family home and had to leave three pets behind buried in the back yard.
I brough the three little cross markers to the new home and they are lined up side by side along the back fence and one has been added since then.
I can't even imagine how CW could have done what he has minimally confessed to.

I'm with you. Most of us have more love, respect, and reverence for our pet babies than he for his daughters, wife, and unborn son.

His babies, his wife, his unborn son. Every step he took up those ladders and down again to carry Bella and CeCe and dump them in those oil tanks took deliberate action and a decision. The decision to carry one, dump her, then the decision to gather up the other, climb up, and dump her.

Then to be able to cover your wife and mother of your babies in dirt, shovel by shovel.

I really just can't imagine how any human being is capable of this. I really can't. But, he told us he is, per the affavit.

And he told us he is a liar per the interviews. I hope the prosecution nails him on every single count. I cannot understand how you could live another minute after doing just what he confessed to doing. Let alone preen and grin for the cameras showing off a shirt.
imo
 
O/T but I have lost 4 beloved pets over the past few years. I also have 4 rescued pets. In fact all my pets are rescued pets. I have had my beloved pets cremated and I have a dog shelf. I look at my dog shelf every day. I loved my pets and when I look at them, I get some kind of comfort. I know weird.
No, not all weird. That is why we have memorial stones on graves.
 
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