Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #4

[justchrissy47]

From the court PIO

Rob McCallum on Twitter

People v Christopher Watts: The Court will build a webpage Monday to post all currently available and future filings in this case. The URL will be distributed from this account when posted.

Wow...do they usually do this?

 

[CM0709]

I also don't believe he had another woman. I think he thought she did maybe another man who worked at the company that went to the conferences. Maybe someone she was friends with but CW was too insecure and suspected infidelity. My sister was in a relationship with a man just like CW quiet not very social others thought he was nice but those that really knew him were terrified of what he might do to my sister. He tried to get her to move out of state as well.

 

[The Farm]

I am new here well I was lurker but had to register as this case hits close to home. I live in Colorado. Some of my thought so are I don't not think the HOA is because of past due fees. In Colorado most neighborhood HOA's have a pool and if you are even a month behind your access is turned off. A neighbor had said she frequently took the girls to the pool. Also there was a video with the girls talking to Alexa (the amazon voice recognition) I think I read somewhere that Alexa can record conversations so maybe there is some record of that on the Alexa.

Hello and welcome...….My friend out there is in an HOA and she said it depends as most are not monitored and the residents know you live there and will just let you in. I guess some have cards, some codes etc so it would depend on the set-up.
She hates the HOA thing but said they looked also in more rural areas (which was not going to work for them because of jobs close to city) and everything was HOA even up in the mountains depending on where you went. So they seem to be big in CO. and many other areas now. We will know soon enough if it was just late payment on dues.

 

[esmerelda]

You know... I’m not entirely sure. I honestly think that in the middle of a highly stressful situation, if someone asked me about something insignificant I could see myself relaxing for a moment, or even having a bit of levity. But you are looking at it from how you’d exact an innocent person to react.

I mean... his family wasn’t missing. He knew exactly where they were. He didn’t care if he had a house full of cop dogs, they weren’t going to find anything. He wasn’t concerned because they weren’t in danger. In his mind, HE was the one in danger. What did bother him was being questioned about the last time he saw his wife and what happened. So being asked about his shirt was obviously a relief.

I guess I don’t see his response to his shirt as a big because I knew watching the interview the first time that he killed them. Watching him and expecting to see him react like an innocent person would is futile; we know he isn’t innocent. He reacted to that question exactly how someone who would rather talk about anything but his missing family would. But even then I don’t know that I would be shocked by an innocent person reacting that way. It’s ok to have a moment or two of distraction.

Of course I am. And I'm also willing to bet the reporter asked about his shirt because they knew he wasn't innocent. I'm just simply pointing out an observation that makes you go huh?

 

[margarita25]

I had initially anticipated stabbing. You guys were right about the suffocation. It appears though that this method is less common in FAs, at least according to this article:

“Third, often the perpetrator is consumed with hatred: sometimes hatred is fuelled by resentment. And, fourth, one influence persuading someone to attack his own family so viciously is frequently a grudge: expulsion from the home, threatened separation, refusal of money, not being mentioned in a will, unfair accusations, a partner’s alleged infidelity – or even something as trivial as “you’re forever nagging”.

Fifth, the instrument of death is more often than not extremely violent: gun, sword, knife or hammer are preferred over suffocation or gassing. However, in recent years, fire appears to have been used more, perhaps because perpetrators are more aware of the importance of destroying DNA evidence, and with the terrible “bonus” that it is the fire or the smoke or both doing the killing, not the instigator.“

The anatomy of family murder - the patterns and warning signs

 

[margarita25]

If there was a new intimate partner, M or F, I think the guys at the gym would know something

He had to be spending hours there, with a trainer. That's not the physique you get from a set of weights at home. And yes, steroids arent really out of the question, IMHO

Or like SP and Amber Frey, massage therapist.

Maybe he was banging one of his coworkers.

 

[Nali87]

Very sad case. I am surprised to hear that he confessed. But I'm guess I'm expecting an insanity defense or for him to blame SW for the murders of the daughters and possible for her own death ("she wanted me to kill her")

 

[The Farm]

Another case that comes to mind reading about this one that I haven’t seen mentioned is Neil Entwistle who killed his wife and 9 month old little girl in their home in Hopkinton, MA. They had big money problems only he was aware of, iirc.

Oh yessss I remember that!!!!! And no one would have ever guessed on that one too.

 

[gitana1]

Yes, thank you for reminding us of "likelihood'.
Also studies have shown that children witnessing abuse in the
home can eventually have stunted or lack of growth and development in important 'emotional' areas of the brain.
Their brain in certain lobes,actually stops developing due to chemical changes
in the brain.

Right. And that's the other part of why it is considered child abuse.

 

[enelram]

So maybe this'emotional conversation' was her announcing she
was moving out/or moving back to NC.
In reading more about family annihilators, the most common cause was 1) breakup of the family (loss of control of)-71% of all
cases and 2) financial problems of family.
Seems like this family had both crises to deal with.

Previous domestic violence was prevalent in most cases- whether reported to LE
or not. This is why I believe she confided in her friend, NU, about what he had
done before (DV) and this was why NU acted so quickly. She knew the guy had
probably threatened or been violent in the past.

link to info on family annihilators-
interesting that August is most common month for this crime
and weekend most common time of week.
most articles state a gun is usually used on wife.

Characteristics of family killers revealed: The male dominated crime most common in August

 

[gitana1]

Another case that comes to mind reading about this one that I haven’t seen mentioned is Neil Entwistle who killed his wife and 9 month old little girl in their home in Hopkinton, MA. They had big money problems only he was aware of, iirc.

That guy was always such a loser. The media and writers really had a field day emasculating him. He was a huge mama's boy too BTW.

 

[cottonweaver]

I got thinking about it last night, when you look at SW social media and you take away Thrive there's very little of SW left.

Clearly she was pushing so very hard to earn money to help the family out but in turn it makes me wonder how stressful keeping up the perfect Facebook family, nice home, nice cars, perfect hair ect really is.

Maybe that's why they didn't sell their home? How would it look to her other Thrivers or people that started thrive under her if she was to suddenly downsize.

Maybe MLM has ended up putting more strain on their home life rather than improving.

IDK if you saw that link I posted a few pages back but although the journalist was reporting on a whole range of MLM businesses ( incl Thrive ) she reports the average annual income for distributors like SW as averaging 1,833 pa

"Multi-level marketing, meanwhile, requires distributors aspiring to build businesses to have faith that their opportunities will yield more than $1,833 per year."

(I think I saw in the DMail , that Shanann was purportedly earning 140K, I just don't think that's possible considering the interviews and research in the article, unless you're very high in the pyramid.)

There are also interviews such as this one with a woman, Jeanne, who gave up her job to sell essential oils and the article is quite insightful ( and not judgemental) into why pple get satisfaction from this. Nonetheless, can't see how Thrive would have helped the family on a financial level.

"Jeanne is sacrificing money and stability for something less quantifiable but still immensely important—doing what she loves. In the long run, she’s confident that her business can grow, because she believes the oils help people."

How Utah Became a Bizarre, Blissful Epicenter for Get-Rich-Quick Schemes

 

[Seattle1]

@Seattle1 said: ↑
In 8:06 minutes, CW spouted many words, even repeated some, but not once did he mention his missing wife by her name. He mentioned his children's names once, but only after he was asked by reporter. (Interview by 9News reporters). The words he used to describe his daughters are very telling: "Celeste is like her" (Mum) -- troublemaker and rampage; "Bella is like me" (CW), choosing "mothering" and "calm" to describe Bella. CW also told the reporter that Bella was starting Kindergarten "next Monday," but St Vrain Valley Schools had open house on Monday, August 13, and 1st day of Kindergarten was Friday, August 17 (Grades 1+ started August 15).

• No inclination
• Friends I didn't know about
• Home like a ghost town
• Earth shattering
• Nightmare
• Nobody
• Nothing
• Kindergarten
• Direct Sales Business
• That's her
• What she does
• Respond to her people
• Not like her
• Trying to get home
• Fast as I coud
• blowing stop signs
• none made sense
• She's not here
• Where did she go
• Somewhere safe
• Maybe she's there
• She's vanished
• So bad
• Those kids
• Own opinion
• My family
• Safe
• This house
• night was traumatic
• Can't stay
• knock on the door
• Those kids
• Knock me on the ground
• Hardest part
• Trouble
• Huddled up
• Earth shattering
• checked out
• She leaves it
• Nightmare
• I saw her
• It was real quick
• Kids in the monitor
• On point
• I like a lot (shirt)
• Trouble maker, rampage (Celeste, like her)
• Calm, mothering (Bella, like me)

WHOA - You know what stands out to me:

"It was real quick"

I don't know what the context was, it might have been the LE response was quick but this phrase just chilled me to the bone

Clearly, he had issues with SW. I'm thinking finances had little do with this indefensible familicide. He had to kill HER and the kids were HER (especially Celeste). I have to think he regrets having to kill Bella the most....

Yes, it was CW response to a direct question about SW!

Reporter asked him if he saw his wife when she got home from AZ/Airport, and his response was "I saw her when she got in, it was real quick."

 

[nanwv]

Can any local websleuth posters recommend a local radio station that is covering this case? Is 1310 am kfka the closest to Fredericksburg? I tried a few Denver stations Friday but updates on this case, not discussions.

 

[margarita25]

Wow...do they usually do this?

Wow, no I don’t recall anything Ike this before? Veterans? Am I having a brain fart?

 

[margarita25]

Can any local websleuth posters recommend a local radio station that is covering this case? Is 1310 am kfka the closest to Fredericksburg? I tried a few Denver stations Friday but updates on this case, not discussions.

Not sure, I’m not on radio, just for clarification though it’s Frederick, CO. I’ll check on the radio...not seeing anything yet..maybe the bigger news stations might stream:
Fox31/9news. www.9news.com
Thedenverchannel/7 news www.thedenverchannel.com
CBS Denver

 

[NanZDrew]

Is it possible or has it even been done that a defense atty. would request a paternity test of the unborn child?

There was a married guy having an affair with a woman who got pregnant and said it was his and was threatening to blow up his marriage. He flipped out, strangled her, and her other son heard, came through the door and was also killed by him because the child witnessed it. A paternity test was done and it was not his baby. He is on death row in Texas.

 

[gitana1]

I did. We were close friends due to sports. I saw him 2 months before he killed HAnnah Graham- he gave me a big hug (picked me up off the ground) and wanted to hang out.

People are mysterious beings. On the outside they can appear harmless but on the inside something is boiling.

I believe this happened with CW. He met Shannan at her worst. She NEEDED him. But now she’s (was *sad face*) making her own way and he wasn’t really a priority anymore. He was really not needed and the rejection got to him because of the narcissist he is.

With LJ he was rejected time and time again- the narcissis inside him wasn’t having it.

Maybe I’ll totally off here. Dr Jekyl Mr Hyde with abandonment issues.

I think you're right on. Narcissists are at their core excessively insecure. Narcissistic terror becomes engulfing rage when theyre afraid they're going to be unmasked. And having a spouse that does better than them or rejects them, that's enough to set them off.

I get that vibe off him. The way he was staring at his wife in the Flosisng video. The way she seemed insistent on stroking his ego in social media. The way her absolute vibrance just overshadowed him. Made him fade into the background really.

He couldn't take it.

 

[gitana1]

I had initially anticipated stabbing. You guys were right about the suffocation. It appears though that this method is less common in FAs, at least according to this article:

“Third, often the perpetrator is consumed with hatred: sometimes hatred is fuelled by resentment. And, fourth, one influence persuading someone to attack his own family so viciously is frequently a grudge: expulsion from the home, threatened separation, refusal of money, not being mentioned in a will, unfair accusations, a partner’s alleged infidelity – or even something as trivial as “you’re forever nagging”.

Fifth, the instrument of death is more often than not extremely violent: gun, sword, knife or hammer are preferred over suffocation or gassing. However, in recent years, fire appears to have been used more, perhaps because perpetrators are more aware of the importance of destroying DNA evidence, and with the terrible “bonus” that it is the fire or the smoke or both doing the killing, not the instigator.“

The anatomy of family murder - the patterns and warning signs

Holy smokes.

 

[cattlekate]

This case has drawn me in too and I have been reading all of your insights and thoughts with interest. I thought I would add a few of my own.

I see a lot posting about her MSM business, Thrive, and wanted to give some input of my observations of MSM businesses as I have been in several (never Thrive, but the premise is all the same), even making it to the top leadership level in one of them. So, I thought I could give you some first hand knowledge/opinion of them. They appeal to people with the idea of owning your own business, work for yourself, set your own hours. They make it sound easy to get rich! They parade out the few that have "made it" and make all those who join believe they can too! While there are older people (mostly women) that join, it is mostly younger women. A big draw is to tell women they can quit their jobs and be with their children because the MSM company will allow you to work as little or as much as you want and any hours you want. This appeals to young women with small children. Then they dangle these carrots of free trips to earn, free product to earn, and sometimes other kinds of prizes. I once unexpectedly won an xBox by being in a drawing because of an order I had submitted. It wasn't even on my mind to win it, as I only submitted one order, which gave me one chance. Each order gave you a chance in the drawing. I didn't care about it, so was really surprised when my name was drawn. My husband appreciated it, lol! By the way, you get a 1099 that includes any of these prizes or rewards, including trips earned. So, those trips she earned had to be claimed on their taxes. And, depending on what she actually earned, the trips may not have been totally free. She may have still had airfare expenses, along with spending money. The trips probably included lodging and some meals......but it doesn't mean it didn't cost her any money to go on them.

People can make money in these companies, but in reality the only ones that really make any substantial money are the ones who get in early and are able to build a team to make money off. I was able to get into one of them at the ground floor level and because of that I quickly added people to my team and very quickly rose to a top level. It is a real ego booster and to be honest, it is quite a confidence booster. I know it was for me and I have seen others "come out of their shell". It was the first time I was ever in the spotlight and felt special and able to even get in front of people and give a speech. This is very appealing to women to be looked up to as "leaders", esp. when you have never lived that life before. You feel like SOMEBODY! While husbands come on board on the free trips and some even get drug to conventions, it is more of a separate life and you form many friendships all over the country.

Conventions are your "girl time" and while I see a lot of people mention that SW was away "at work" in Arizona, I can tell you it isn't "like work". Conventions are fun cheerleader events! You pay to attend them....usually $200-$300, plus hotel expense and food and spending money. There is usually a company store where I saw women load up carts with hundreds of pricey items! It is easy to get caught up in it all! It can easily cost $1000 to attend and then more if you are a "heavy shopper"! These conventions are the culmination of the end of the sales season and the beginning of another. It is a time to meet up with your friends from all over the country....sometimes it might be the only time you see some of them. While there are "classes", the main sessions are full of thousands of women whooping it up, dancing, loud music, even beach ball hitting. There are guest speakers (some can be boring....but, for the most part they are fun and inspiring). You always have your phone to play with if they are boring, lol! Thru out the general session, the upcoming new season products are introduced in a fun, exciting manner and everyone screams and loves, loves, loves it all and can't wait to get their hands on them! And the company GIVES some of it to each one there! Of course we actually paid for them with our convention registration....nothing is really free! The excitement level is indescribable. There is such energy in the room with thousands of cheering women and all the loud rock music and cheerleading on stage. Believe me, it is not like "work". It is the reward for your work! And the purpose is also to get you pumped up to go back home and be ready to promote the new catalog. These conventions are usually held in July or August to get you pumped up for the upcoming holiday season....the biggest selling months of the whole year!

Also, at these conventions they will spotlight and reward top leaders.....special rewards for Top Seller of the year, Top Recruiter, etc. Some can be very nice rewards. And of course you are told that ANYONE can do what these leaders have done....YOU can do it! Those carrots are dangled in front of you and some work really hard trying to get them, but in reality very few really end up making the big bucks. My first MSM company was 25 years old and I was clueless. It was a very popular company and I was having fun, but really had no clue about how they really work. My first Convention I was rewarded with all kinds of stuff for making Sales Achiever, which was $20,000 in sales. I was clueless that I had even accomplished something worthy of recognition and rewards. So, it was a nice surprise. I made 25% commission, so that was $5000 commission in my first year. Figuring that monthly, I made $416.67 a month. And believe me, that was a lot of selling/parties/submitting parties, etc. But, wait! Out of that $416.67 a month, I had to purchase catalogs, order forms, hostess gifts, and other business materials.....including product to show potential customers, at my 25% discount, of course. So, as you can see.....I wasn't getting rich. Even with $20,000 in sales, it was a hobby. And I quickly realized that their top leaders were already in place after 25 years and the company was so saturated that there was really no chance to reach that level any more. And when that company's sales plummeted, many of those leaders who had based their lifestyles on those top commissions found themselves in a position that they could not continue in that same lifestyle.

So, I learned from my first MSM company that the only way to have the success of the leaders they marched across the stage was to get in a business at the ground floor level. I finally did it and reached the lower level of the top tier within two years! I had 300 people under me.....what SW would have referred to as "her people". Not all husbands are supportive, even if you are making money. Mine wasn't.....neither were my grown kids.....they just saw it as a hobby. I think that contributed to my desire to prove them wrong! My husband wasn't fond of me going to these conventions but I didn't let him stop me. He never really acknowledged my success, even tho he still enjoys that XBox I won! So, my MSM business gave me something I needed.....something that made me feel important. I didn't feel very important at home. Not saying that was SW's case, but I can tell you it would definitely be an ego booster and any woman needs that.

While I did start making some money, even with 300 people on my team, the most I ever made was $2000-$2500 a month in the 3 months preceding Christmas. The rest of the year is much harder. And most of that money I made was commissions from my down line. But, to get that commission from my downline, I had required sales to meet personally and team wise. If we didn't hit our sales, I would not get commission from my team. So, there were months that I bought inventory myself to meet those quotas. But, I was smart about it. I would literally sit and figure up what my commission would be and see if it made sense to spend the money. For example, if I had to spend $500 out of my own pocket but it would result in me making $1000 more in commissions, then I would do it. I would make $500 plus have the inventory to sell. Eventually the business/sales started going down to the point I decided it was no longer worth it to me to spend that money and as a result I lost my team and title.....basically gave them up. I knew I was in it to make money and had told myself that once I was no longer making money, I was done. I would not keep pumping money into it to hang onto a title to feed my ego. But I am older...actually retired. I had more life experience to tell me it was time to give it up. I also think the younger you are there is more of a tendency to "succeed" even if it was actually costing you. Some of it is about appearances. There are quotas to meet to keep your title and team and I can tell you that many will buy inventory each month to meet those quotas. Like I said, it is as much about your ego as the money....maybe even more at times. I had to mentally get to the point that it was ok with me to give it all up.....that is a hard thing to do. Because of my previous MSM experiences, I knew how the game was played and was smart enough to know when it was time to give up on the "dream". But, unfortunately, many first timers don't see all the pitfalls before it is too late. I am actually still with the company but have no desires left to be in leadership ever again.

Do I think the MSM company could have contributed to stress in CW/SW's lives? From my experiences, I do. One of my friends that I met thru my first MSM company ended up going to prison for a couple of years for embezzling a half a million $$$$ from her employer while she was with the MSM company. I was in shock! Never saw that coming! She lived in another state and we met thru the MSM company and became friends and roomed together at Conventions until she started going up the ladder and was hanging with the leaders more. The Conventions were the only times we saw each other in person. And eventually we weren't really hanging with each other or communicating much once she went into leadership. Do I think her time with that MSM company contributed to her crime? I do! At the conventions I saw her spend money like water in the company store.....price tags didn't seem to matter, while I was whipping out my calculator to add up my purchases to make sure I didn't overspend. If she saw something she liked/wanted, it went into her cart! I remember thinking to myself that her husband must have a very good job! Her home was FILLED with our products, which were a home decorating product....and not cheap! It could cost $100 easily for one of our products.....even more if you decked it out! And I would see pictures of her home and it was filled with them! I had plenty myself....but not like her! I just thought they must have a lot of money! But, I did take notice of that and the clothing, jewelry, etc. that seems to go along with "looking the part". I was knocked over when a mutual friend called and told me the news of her crime! We were both in shock and I followed it online, so I know it was true. We are still friends/acquaintances today, but she never told me why. But me and the other friend always felt like the MSM business contributed to it. I theorize that she got in over her head with credit cards trying to keep her place in the company and keeping up with all of the other leaders and it lead to her taking the money to pay credit card debt.....maybe at first it wasn't much and she thought she would pay it back, but it snowballed and she realized it wasn't getting caught and it got easier. But it eventually caught up with her during an audit. Even tho she committed a crime, I did find myself feeling sad for her, as I think she just got caught up in something that feeds our egos. So, from that experience, I do think the MSM company could have contributed to whatever was going on in this household. I have some other thoughts, too, that are not about the MSM company and will share those thoughts in a separate thread. I just wanted to give you an inside look at the MSM business, since it is being discussed. I honestly could see it becoming part of the defense. This is such a horrible crime! Did he snap? Or was this the person he always was? I just don't know! It could be a lot of things compiling.....or maybe he was just an evil person, but I didn't see that in the videos I watched of him with the kids. It just breaks my heart.

This is an incredible post, so thank you. May I ask how you paid your state and income taxes while getting income from a MLM?

Colorado just sent me a notice that I owed 2015 taxes. It took 3 years to “catch up” to me. I moved to another state in 2014, so it was no problem, as I mailed in a copy of my new state’s 2015 taxes and 2014 Colorado home-sell documents. But it was a SHOCKER to receive a “past-due” Colorado tax document in the mail. I got ill about the notice and had to dig through piles of old papers to clear it up! I cannot how horrid it would be to receive a notice of past-due taxes when they are really due!