Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #4

[JadeSLeuth]

Quick hello all, and now back to the beginning to catch up!
This case is calling me ...

 

[Herat]

I wonder if there was some feeling of jealousy here about how much time and energy she gave to "her people". He mentions that in the interview, like if she doesn't call me back that is fine but not calling her people back, that was really concerning.

Also, the planned name for the baby, Nico.... Nicole.... named after her maybe?

Were her people possibly a bigger part of her life than he would have liked? Like he may not have felt he was #1 to her or something? Obviously no excuse AT ALL, I'm just speculating here.

I read almost all of this, but I did miss a few pages, so I apologize if that was already mentioned.

Nico..... or Nicole

I just don't know what to say........It's all so awful

 

[zencompass]

Dear @gitana1,

Did you find anything surprising or interesting during the court appearance (video link below) or was everything standard and as expected?

I look forward to your comments on Tuesday after the next court appearance.

In addition to your deep compassion in these cases, you explain the legal aspect and procedure so clearly. You are very patient with our questions!

Greatly appreciate you being on these threads.

 

[no one]

It's been stated that she was at the 80K level at Thrive. Does that mean she made 80,000 a year? Or is that just a terminology they use at that company? TIA

More likely means her team sold $80,000 a year. And she made a small percentage of it. I will be eager to see exactly what she DID make from Thrive.

 

[gitana1]

Perplexing - as of July 31st she sounds genuinely excited to be going home on Aug 7th - just doesn't sound like she's about to have a "I'm leaving you" conversation with him, judging by this one.

Shanann Watts: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know | Heavy.com

But could that have just been marketing?

 

[MysteryMama]

I saw someone ask a while back if there had been another other cases like this without prior known violence. I had an acquaintance that to all of our knowledge had no violence in her relationship. He killed their whole family very violently and then himself the next day, left notes that it was financial reasons, they were in a lot of debt. I remember at the time there being a lot of talk about the medications he was RXed, but I'm not sure that had anything to do with it. Here is the case.
In Notes Left in Family's Killings, Md. Man Details Debts, Depression

 

[EmilyVan]

Idk if anyone mentioned this but, they have an Alexa - I wonder if it recorded the murders?

I wonder this too and it's also exactly why I don't have one of those. Not because I murder people in my home but because you really have NO IDEA when 'it' is listening. No thank you.

 

[MyBelle]

I believe she is the friend that called the police to report Shanann missing.

I'm just wondering if Nicole is part of "her people" and could possibly be helping SW in her separation plans and CW knew it and blamed her for it. She sounds like a very close friend to SW.

 

[CFlo]

He didn't look surprised over the shirt. He laughed when he saw it. It sounded like a genuine laugh. Then his next comment about getting what you want, didn't sound happy. I don't see why she would post, abut him talking her into this pregnancy, if he didn't. Too many people could have asked him about it. And there wasn't a reason to lie about it. No one asked her.

Shirt is a common trendy pregnancy T-shirt that’s a play on words taken from Brittany Spears song, “oops I did it again”. That’s all, IMO.
IMO the first time I watched this video and he got closer to the stick to see the confirmation, the “unhappiness” that I think people are seeing is him thinking because the stick had PINK on it, he assumed it meant a girl. IIRC, she makes an immediate comment about that. Just my impression.

 

[katie565]

What do you mean katie565?

I was saying that the company won’t be taking a financial hit right now because they’re actually using her name to help sell more product. You could tell it was coordinated today because so many of them posted similar things within an hour of each other. It really made me feel ill

 

[gitana1]

Dear @gitana1,

Did you find anything surprising or interesting during the court appearance (video link below) or was everything standard and as expected?

I look forward to your comments on Tuesday after the next court appearance.

In addition to your deep compassion in these cases, you explain the legal aspect and procedure so clearly. You are very patient with our questions!

Greatly appreciate you being on these threads.

Thanks so much! You know criminal law is not my area but I do know some about the initial processes (my law partner is a criminal defense attorney and I assist on minor appearances like pretrials and arraignments).

Also I'm aware of many of the standard defense motions just from watching so many of these cases, hearing from my law partner and knowing about malpractice and "zealous" advocacy.

I didn't find anything unusual. The defense motions may have been somewhat aggressive but didn't seem out of the norm.

Pretty standard stuff. So many defense motions are made and a lot are denied, it seems to me.

This is a big case for criminal defense attorneys. The worst and most serious. So they do everything they can to represent the defendant's interest.

I think for the them, life in prison rather than death would be a victory. Second degree murder would be an incredible victory.

They will fight hard for both.

It's interesting to see how these cases play out from a legal standpoint and I will be frank that many things in these cases I will have to ask my law partner about or do research to figure out. Because I don't necessarily know right off the bat.

By the way, as promised I asked him about the pleading guilty thing and whether a judge can reject a plea of guilty in a murder case at arraignment and enter a plea of not guilty for the defendant. He said: "Yes. It's been done."

 

[gitana1]

We treat evil SOB's like this in our society too lightly. At the very least, on Saturday his cell should have been plastered with Congratulations On The Baby Boy cards, and sonogram pictures, in honor of the reveal party he was supposed to have.

That would make me happy.

 

[Tippy Lynn]

Yes. I think he's actually pretty good at using present tense for most of the interviews. I think he's nervous and feeling somewhat guilty and scared of being caught. But his affect is pretty emotionless for a person in his position.

I've said before that I don't think he's full psycho because he betrays some emotion that evidences nervousness about being caught, which true psychopaths don't have, and I sense emotion, some remorse about his kids (not his wife, BTW), but he managed to hold it together pretty well.

I think he has a history of lying and people believing him.

But as others have said he's not that smart. What gets me more than a couple past tense slip ups is his seeming surety that his kids would not be home the night. That struck me right away. As someone who has been through having family missing for several days and likely dead, you hold onto hope for a long time, coming up with improbable scenarios to explain how they're going to reappear, safe.

Every phone call is going to be them or news that they're safe. The hope that comes from love.

But he couldn't spend another night without them. That was a big red flag for me.

It stood out for me too. He knew they weren’t coming home that night. I knew he was involved as soon as he said it.

I’m sorry to hear about your personal experience.

 

[katie565]

More likely means her team sold $80,000 a year. And she made a small percentage of it. I will be eager to see exactly what she DID make from Thrive.

80k level is $80,000/ mo in sales for her entire team and she’s paid 4% on that. There are other kickers & incentives and I didn’t care enough to go deeply into it but I’d guess a person would end up making around 5%. Don’t hold me to it though.

 

[Nosey Neighbor]

More likely means her team sold $80,000 a year. And she made a small percentage of it. I will be eager to see exactly what she DID make from Thrive.

Who the heck is buying this stuff? I had never even heard of Thrive before. Have never seen it, and never heard ONE person in my life even mention it.

 

[gitana1]

I think you pretty well covered the devastation he has caused. No one has come forth to talk about what a good guy he was, either. I think the people who loved Shanann just tolerated him because Shanann loved him. JMO.

Interesting. True. I mean the couple he stayed with that guy did say he was a great guy and dad. But he realized he had been fooled. He was very broken up about it. Crying.

 

[margarita25]

Did he really think he was going to get away with this? Somehow he seems ill prepared to me for this crime and coverup, based on the interview imo. He also buckled rather quickly under LE’s pressure. This makes me question the level of premeditation and lean more towards a “snapping” type situation...but could one even “snap” like that? Would he haaad to have thought about it before, at least on a subconscious level?

@gitana1 , could Temporary insanity, or crime of passion (meaning state of mind, in a rage, etc) could be used here as a defense?

 

[EmilyVan]

This is a big case for criminal defense attorneys. The worst and most serious. So they do everything they can to represent the defendant's interest.

I think for the them, life in prison rather than death would be a victory. Second degree murder would be an incredible victory.

Totally agree 100%. They'll fight for his life. I highly doubt the defense is even remotely anticipating a not-guilty verdict.

 

[gitana1]

I noticed that hard swallow. I took that as more of a nervous thing. Like when you're lying to your mom about something you did and she keeps asking you more questions about it and you're getting scared that shes going to figure out you're lying the more you talk. I don't know.

Could be. But psychopaths don't get nervous when they lie. Not one bit. They have low physiological arousal thresholds. They are like dead-eyed sharks.

Robert Hare's books and articles about psychopaths really break it down.

A psychopath would be very confident in their ability to get away with it and not afraid to get caught really. They enjoy the cat and mouse. They feel zero fear.

Bundy is a great example.

Maybe this guy is more of a typical narcissist. Lesser ability to feel empathy. But able to form bonds. Still manipulative and deceptive. They are good at hiding their true natures.

They tend to experience narcissistic panic when they're going to be unmasked as the insecure creeps they really are. And then desperate rage.

 

[MyBelle]

Interesting. True. I mean the couple he stayed with that guy did say he was a great guy and dad. But he realized he had been fooled. He was very broken up about it. Crying.

That's the way victims of con-artists feel. It is the most incredible betrayal of trust when someone you welcome into your home and family turns out to be a narcissistic *advertiser censored*****s.