Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #42

[Seattle1]

Good morning all!

I have been thinking about the motion for the sealing of autopsy reports in this case.

Potential release of Christopher Watts case autopsies is focus of conflicting arguments

“Zansberg also said he doesn't know of any case where autopsy reports have been withheld due to the chance of substantial injury to the public interest after charges have been filed.”


https://www.courts.state.co.us/userfiles/file/Court_Probation/19th_Judicial_District/caseofinterest/2018CR2003/[L] MOTION TO DENY DISCLOSURE OF PUBLIC RECORD PURSUANT TO CRS 24-72-204(6)(A).pdf


“The disclosure of this information to the public prior to trial could result in tainting witnesses that have not yet been interviewed and impacting future jurors.”


@Amandaaa and anyone else who wishes to chime in: -

Do you think its is possible, taking together;

1. the motion filed by the prosecution to seal the autopsy reports; and

2. the fact that there are no known cases where autopsy reports have been withheld after charges have been filed,

that there may be another person of interest to LE? - and this is why the DA wants the autopsies sealed?

I believe we can be most assured that holding out for "another person of interest" to surface has zero bearing on the State's request not to disclose the autopsies to media/public until the trial!

In addition to the State taking a preemptive step (motion filed) towards ensuring a fair trial for CW and the People, there are few things more emotional than the autopsy report of a child. It should be noted that 26 states have statutes that directly address disclosure of autopsy reports, and of those states, 15 generally favor disclosure of autopsies BUT with restrictions for minor child autopsy reports, and 11 bar disclosure of autopsies. Most recently, Colorado barely missed joining these states to bar the disclosure of autopsy reports of minors pursuant to Senate Bill 223, pushed by county Coroners (custodians of these reports), after Colorado's Governor vetoed the bill in June of this year. In other words, the nondisclosure request in the Watt's case is hardly foreign to the court or the public.

At this time, the defense says they have no knowledge of witnesses who the prosecution have not yet interviewed. If the court makes its ruling based on this criteria, Watts' attorneys have asked for a hearing to determine whether this position has any merit. As it's still possible that the defense will agree that there's merit not to disclose the reports, I have no doubt that any request will be fought and litigated by open-records advocates. IMO, the advocates were successful in pressuring the veto of Senate Bill 223, and I believe they will prevail here too.

Potential release of Christopher Watts case autopsies is focus of conflicting arguments

 

[Tippy Lynn]

Very well said, thank you.

Do you find it significant that there are first degree murder charges filed TWICE for the girls, for a total of five first degree murder charges?

A person can be charge with first degree murder in Colorado if the person is in a position of trust with respect to a child under 12 and knowingly causes the death of a child.

 

[Thepoet]

I don't think we have any at this time, that we can point to with any certainty.

He was the last one seen with the girls while they were alive. The girls were never seen alive again, after they left the party with him. He was seen alone at the house, before SW arrived home. He took complicated steps to hide the body and avoid having the murders discovered (the actions of a guilty person), he took complicated steps to make it appear they were still alive, after they were dead, and he knew they were dead! The girls were murdered and he was the "self-admitted" killer in the house. CW stated the girls were strangled and he has admitted to killing by; strangling.

All of this is circumstantial, but I believe it is evidence. None of it can be applied to SW. I also believe the prosecution has physical evidence.

 

[Nikynoo]

I believe we can be most assured that holding out for "another person of interest" to surface has zero bearing on the State's request not to disclose the autopsies to media/public until the trial!

In addition to the State taking a preemptive step (motion filed) towards ensuring a fair trial for CW and the People, there are few things more emotional than the autopsy report of a child. It should be noted that 26 states have statutes that directly address disclosure of autopsy reports, and of those states, 15 generally favor disclosure of autopsies BUT with restrictions for minor child autopsy reports, and 11 bar disclosure of autopsies. Most recently, Colorado barely missed joining these states to bar the disclosure of autopsy reports of minors pursuant to Senate Bill 223, pushed by county Coroners (custodians of these reports), after Colorado's Governor vetoed the bill in June of this year. In other words, the nondisclosure request in the Watt's case is hardly foreign to the court or the public.

At this time, the defense says they have no knowledge of witnesses who the prosecution have not yet interviewed. If the court makes its ruling based on this criteria, Watts' attorneys have asked for a hearing to determine whether this position has any merit. As it's still possible that the defense will agree that there's merit not to disclose the reports, I have no doubt that any request will be fought and litigated by open-records advocates. IMO, the advocates were successful in pressuring the veto of Senate Bill 223, and I believe they will prevail here too.

Potential release of Christopher Watts case autopsies is focus of conflicting arguments

Thanks for your response, it doesn't answer my question though.

If we ignore the fact that the DA is not the correct party to file the motion to seal for a minute - the question is why does he want them ALL sealed? Looking at the defense's response, they feel that the DA's assertion that the request is protecting the integrity of any future trial holds no water. As VA's have already stated on this forum, that it is unusual for such a request to be filed AFTER charges have been made as therefore the motion is likely to be refused. HOWEVER, if there are further charges to be made against an unknown party, then the motion makes sense (albeit the Coroner, as custodian, is the correct party to make it).

 

[Thepoet]

A person can be charge with first degree murder in Colorado if the person is in a position of trust with respect to a child under 12 and knowingly causes the death of a child.

I know that, I was interested in Gitana's opinion, as an attorney, as to why so many charges were filed. Perhaps to force a plea?

 

[Gardener1850]

I always thought that was a strange thing to say. He wouldn't have had a chance of doing a runner but it was obvious to me he wanted to do something. Maybe he thought there was some small piece of evidence he could secrete in his pocket and dispose of.

I think he just wanted to make it sound like he had tried to do something. When he went to the Thayers house that night they said they continued to offer CW ideas of what they could do and he didn't really seem interested. I think he dropped the act of concern (what little he showed) right after the media interviews. He was only concerned with how he looked on tv and if what he said was believable (it wasn't). I think he thought he was going to get away with it. JMO.

 

[JudgeJudi]

Interview with Dr Ramani Durvasula, licensed clinical psychologist in private practice in Santa Monica and Sherman Oaks, CA and a Professor of Psychology at California State University, Los Angeles, where she was named Outstanding Professor in 2012.

Dr. Durvasula received her B.S. in Psychology from the University of Connecticut, and her MA and Ph.D. degrees in Clinical Psychology from UCLA.

She is also involved in national governance in the field of psychology and has served as the chair of the Committee on Socioeconomic Status at the American Psychological Association and is presently a member of the Advisory Board of the Minority Fellowship Program of the American Psychological Association.

As we have a couple of VIs here, I checked out her credentials to make sure she was well qualified ... not that we’re sceptical people here.

She explains her subject in clear and easy to understand language. I found it fascinating and I hope you do too.

How to Spot a Narcissist, Psychopath or Sociopath

 

[rogue ant]

He was the last one seen with the girls while they were alive. The girls were never seen alive again, after they left the party with him. He was seen alone at the house, before SW arrived home. He took complicated steps to hide the body and avoid having the murders discovered (the actions of a guilty person), he took complicated steps to make it appear they were still alive, after they were dead, and he knew they were dead! The girls were murdered and he was the "self-admitted" killer in the house. CW stated the girls were strangled and he has admitted to killing by; strangling.

All of this is circumstantial, but I believe it is evidence. None of it can be applied to SW. I also believe the prosecution has physical evidence.

ITA.
I would also add that the method in which he disposed of the girls' bodies was an attempt to destroy incriminating evidence (as well as evading detection, obviously).

 

[gitana1]

Very well said, thank you.

Do you find it significant that there are first degree murder charges filed TWICE for the girls, for a total of five first degree murder charges?

Yes. What it means is that even if the jury finds the murders of the girls by him to be second degree, meaning not really premeditated, they are sill first degree under the statute because they were children under 12 who he was in a position of trust over.

 

[Tippy Lynn]

Thanks for your response, it doesn't answer my question though.

If we ignore the fact that the DA is not the correct party to file the motion to seal for a minute - the question is why does he want them ALL sealed? Looking at the defense's response, they feel that the DA's assertion that the request is protecting the integrity of any future trial holds no water. As VA's have already stated on this forum, that it is unusual for such a request to be filed AFTER charges have been made as therefore the motion is likely to be refused. HOWEVER, if there are further charges to be made against an unknown party, then the motion makes sense (albeit the Coroner, as custodian, is the correct party to make it).

I would like to know why the DA is requesting them to be sealed as well. I mean the DA knows it's almost unheard of for them to be sealed for the reasons they are requesting. Unless there's something pointing in a different direction why file the motion?
jmo

 

[Thepoet]

Yes. What it means is that even if the jury finds the murders of the girls by him to be second degree, meaning not really premeditated, they are sill first degree under the statute because they were children under 12 who he was in a position of trust over.

Thank you! Very clear and concise. As this unfolds, I believe your various assessments of the case and of the DA will be validated.

 

[JudgeJudi]

I think he just wanted to make it sound like he had tried to do something. When he went to the Thayers house that night they said they continued to offer CW ideas of what they could do and he didn't really seem interested. I think he dropped the act of concern (what little he showed) right after the media interviews. He was only concerned with how he looked on tv and if what he said was believable (it wasn't). I think he thought he was going to get away with it. JMO.

He definitely wasn't the sharpest tool in the toolshed. Blind Freddy could see through his pathetic act on the porch and the Thayers were so concerned by his behaviour when he stayed at their home that they rang LE as soon as he departed. And they were his friends!

 

[Tippy Lynn]

I know that, I was interested in Gitana's opinion, as an attorney, as to why so many charges were filed. Perhaps to force a plea?

I was posting in case there are others who weren't aware of that.

 

[Nikynoo]

He definitely wasn't the sharpest tool in the toolshed. Blind Freddy could see through his pathetic act on the porch and the Thayers were so concerned by his behaviour when he stayed at their home that they rang LE as soon as he departed. And they were his friends!

That may be the case, but he sure thought of a good hiding place, so must have some smarts there

 

[PommyMommy]

I am assuming LE was keeping close tabs on CW, and have wondered why they didn't want CW to help with the search?Don't some return to the scene of the crime? He (potentially) could have led them there. I wonder if he would have gone back to gather anything left behind if he left in a hurry when receiving NUA's call about LE coming to the house for a well-check? Or, maybe, as you indicate, JudgeJudi, to dispose of additional evidence.

I have always believed that there was some suspicion of CW's involvement of their "disappearance" from the very beginning, and this is why a second officer was called to the home when NUA asked for a well-check.

We have additional evidence that LE believed he may have been involved, and this evidence ultimately led to his arrest and the charges against him.
- questioning of NUA at well-check where she indicated SW was not feeling well, missed her doctors appointment, and was told by CW that the two were separating.
- found SW's cellphone between couch cushions, and asked to take the phone (is this how LE discovered information about a possible AP through text messages)?
- CW's answers to LE's questioning raised suspicion, and as a result they continued to investigate his possible involvement.
- two day investigation and questioning of AP.
- bizarre interviews given to reporters by CW.
- report from the Thayer's about CW's odd behavior.
- search warrant for the home where sheets/pillowcases were found in kitchen garbage.
- additional evidence removed from the home.
- possible tracking of CW's movements through his GPS the morning of their disappearance.
- drone search of the CERVI location.
- discovery of matching sheet found at site.
- discovery of clandestine grave at site.
- confession by CW.

What we don't have (yet) is the evidence against CW that he is responsible for the deaths of BW and CCW. But we do know there is something based on his charges.

BBM I see a lot of "somethings."

CW's story about seeing Bella blue on the monitor is not believable to me. He is lying.

It is extremely unlikely that two people snapped and committed murder using the same method at the same time.

In so many words, NUA told us that in the few weeks leading up to the murders, Chris was detached. Not just from Shanann, but also from the girls. NUA said, “He wasn’t being the loving Chris that he normally was. He wasn’t touching or hugging or doing stuff like that. And he wasn’t being as attentive to the girls as he normally is.”

What may be the most telling is that a parent who witnessed his child (CeCe) being murdered did nothing to save her. No 911 call, no attempt to revive either child, no use of the home security system, no reports from neighbors of yelling or screaming...but an hour or so later, he loaded up their bodies and dumped them like trash. He went from an all-out "rage" to immediately concealing evidence. No. Just no. These are not the actions of an innocent man.

His interviews. No grief. No anguish. No despair.

It doesn't add up.
MOO

 

[Thepoet]

I was posting in case there are others who weren't aware of that.

Oh, my bad. Thanks.

 

[Gardener1850]

I always thought that was a strange thing to say. He wouldn't have had a chance of doing a runner but it was obvious to me he wanted to do something. Maybe he thought there was some small piece of evidence he could secrete in his pocket and dispose of.

Interesting theory. I always thought if he had been smart he would have made a run for Mexico the moment NUA informed him she was calling the police. But then I realized he never would have made it to the border. His truck was tracked in real time by his office GPS. Police would have found him before he made it very far. Unless he had planned ahead to run, he had no chance. And if he is a pyschopath who gets calmer in high-risk situations it makes sense he didn't think he needed to run. He was egotistical enough to think he could fool them. JMO.

 

[JudgeJudi]

I’m dedicating this beautiful song to Shanann’s parents and brother, Frankie

Where are you this moment? Only in my dreams.

 

[Best of What's Around]

I find it interesting that CW said he wanted to get out and drive around. Why, to go back and move SW's body? Flee the jurisdiction? He knew they were dead, so why drive around looking? At the very least this shows how cold and callous he was and determined to create a false narrative.

I personally thought he (1) thought it was what a Dad with a missing family would say/do, and (2) wanted to get away from the house, where he has to watch his every facial expression and statement. That is a lot of work IMO to maintain.

 

[katydid23]

I don't understand why SW felt the need to post them at all. Were her "people" really needing to interrupt their own family time on Christmas Eve just to see the scared, crying Watts children? CeCe was crying in the other room nearly the entire time and Bella made it clear she didn't want to be on camera after Santa left. It was difficult to watch and it left me wondering what kinds of demands her employer was imposing on SW.

JMO

I am not sure that she expected any of 'her people' to stop their Christmas celebrations to watch the tape she posted.

That particular tape was live streamed initially for the grandparents so they could see the girls at Christmas. It obviously didn't go as planned, but I don't see why it would be so difficult to watch. Toddlers have tantrums, especially during the holidays. I don't think it is that big of a deal. JMO