GUILTY CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *CW LWOP* #58

[nwmouse]

I wonder if Cindy and Ronnie will try to interject themselves in the civil suit?

After the rotten behavior we've witnessed, I would not be surprised.
moo

 

[Loveallmyhorsesdogsandcats]

Brace yourself fo this one. (I've re-typed it exactly how it was written in the document - errors are not mine.) From Sandra Rzucek's letter:

Pg 1265, 1266 (Discovery pg 1403-1404 ) - Shanann got pregnant w/Celeste & pregnancy was really rough on Shanann w/her lupus. Very high risk pregnancy again, but only this one was worst for Shanann. Water weight gain, severe back pain, shortness of breath. Pains in her chest. Fatigue, exhaustion.

My husband and I sold everything but our house and moved out to live with them. To help our daughter in everyway we could. Frank and I had to work to pay our bills too. We were there for fifteen months.

Chris's mom came out to watch the girls for a few days, while Shanann and Chris went on a business trip with leVel, her co. Four nights and five days.

During that time, we weren't allowed to see our grandchildren or even eat dinner with them as soon as we got home. She brought them up stairs and stayed upstairs. She wouldn't let us hold them or anything. I found that very odd. One day I asked her why? She said what the Hell am I here for then? She screamed in my face in front of my granddaughters and said that I was very controlling. I was just like "wow"! I texted Shanann over and over again and she said relax mom. I'll take care of it when we get home. It was ridiculous.. I never spoke to Chris's Mom again. I had enough!!

No words, I don’t want to get kicked off of WS. To them everyone is the enemy, a battle to be won, always a reason to be ready for a fight. A mother of a girl my daughter rodeoed with was like that. She lived in her own reality, any comment made by anyone was interpreted as something totally different. Her responses would be so far out in left field, as if she was not even in the same conversation.

 

[Mitch11]

I have just been putting together this list of 'potential' difficulties that CW 'may' have faced in childhood. This information is gleened from the information we have discussed so far. Please feel free to correct any information that maybe incorrect or add your own opinion/findings etc. Obviously we do not know these things definitively happened to CW, so they are suggestions of his potential upbringing (rather than fact).


Family enmeshment:

Signs we know of:
Mother over-involvement in CW life and relationship with SW.

Mother disrespects and undermines others beliefs/parenting techniques and boundaries (eg nut incident, comments about SW as a mother)

Power games with them both (e.g. wedding planning, not attending wedding or children's parties, nut incident),

Their identity as a family may be built upon their children’s success. Eg their talk on his past achievements (eg sports, nascar).

Threatened when CW married and moved across the country (eg CW responsible for dads increase in drinking, their comments about SW)

CW may have taken on a caretaker role towards RW’s drinking

Family dynamics look like they were built on power and submission, rather than equality and respect.


Effects of enmeshment on an adult: A failure to adequately develop an individual sense of identity and self-esteem, A difficulty regulating one’s own emotions, feeling controlled by others causing them to emotionally withdraw, negatively affect on relationships, difficulty developing appropriate and balanced friendships and difficulties with trust outside immediate family, fear of intimacy as relationships seen as emotionally draining, may seek out relationships in which they are responsible for caring for a partner, repeating what was learned in childhood.


Fathers substance abuse issues:
The nature of substance abuse can reduce a child's experience with making friends, so later they may have difficulty with intimate relationships. CW does have issues in these areas

Addiction tendencies may be familial -both socially modelled and possible genetic trait?

Impact of growing up with this: overlaps with enmeshment traits, particularly around loss of identity, feelings of responsibility, used to playing the role of the caregiver, may have an excessive need to be in control in order to balance out the chaos in their lives. Or they may constantly need approval, to reassure themselves that they have value. Some become aggressive.


Attachment
Mrs Watts described as cold and overbearing. Although its reported he has a close relationship with his dad, he will still be impacted by his relationship with his mother. There are numerous issues that arise from having an in-secure attachment.


Social modelling
His family have socially modeled the following:

Women are domineering.

Men avoid to cope, rather than confront (eg Dad used substances as a form of escape most likely).

Unkind behaviour towards others

No respect for personal boundaries



Social and emotional development

Guaranteed CW grew up in an invalidating environment.

Emotions likely to not be acknowledged let alone expressed, which is a huge issue as this causes someone to lack emotional awareness and stunts development.

Love and kindness probably 'rewarded' only when doing something right. Therefore, love becomes associated with doing what someone else wants, not inherently given. This will be linked to wanting to be seen as ‘good’.

Socially he had few friends and lacked a dating history. The question remains why was that? Lack of interest, fear of parental opinion? Etc. This isn’t always an issue, however in this case it is suggests why he was so excited by the prospect of the affair he was having and the thrill he was getting from this.

Supposedly his sister was 'naughty'. This may be a sign of issues at home (although cannot definitely say this). However, children take up roles in a family. CW has taken up the 'good' boy role, which would be a partial contributor to why he wants to save face and be seen as ‘good’


Empathy

Others say he was kind and caring

Seems empathic towards NK. Why? (Concerned about her being dragged in to the case).

Important to differentiate between empathy and sympathy. Psychopaths and sociopaths use empathy (not sympathy) to learn about a person and use this in a self-fulfilling manner (eg for their own purpose).

Psychopath vs sociopath – no criminal history that we are aware, indicates CW is not a psychopath, but rather a sociopath.



** There is obviously a lot more that can be added to this””

 

[NuttMegg]

Brace yourself fo this one. (I've re-typed it exactly how it was written in the document - errors are not mine.) From Sandra Rzucek's letter:

Pg 1265, 1266 (Discovery pg 1403-1404 ) - Shanann got pregnant w/Celeste & pregnancy was really rough on Shanann w/her lupus. Very high risk pregnancy again, but only this one was worst for Shanann. Water weight gain, severe back pain, shortness of breath. Pains in her chest. Fatigue, exhaustion.

My husband and I sold everything but our house and moved out to live with them. To help our daughter in everyway we could. Frank and I had to work to pay our bills too. We were there for fifteen months.

Chris's mom came out to watch the girls for a few days, while Shanann and Chris went on a business trip with leVel, her co. Four nights and five days.

During that time, we weren't allowed to see our grandchildren or even eat dinner with them as soon as we got home. She brought them up stairs and stayed upstairs. She wouldn't let us hold them or anything. I found that very odd. One day I asked her why? She said what the Hell am I here for then? She screamed in my face in front of my granddaughters and said that I was very controlling. I was just like "wow"! I texted Shanann over and over again and she said relax mom. I'll take care of it when we get home. It was ridiculous.. I never spoke to Chris's Mom again. I had enough!!

Is there a bedroom on the main floor or maybe they stayed in the basement.

 

[PommyMommy]

Wow! In the same house and she wouldn't let them see the kids?

Isn't that just unreal?!

 

[Tuliptiptoe]

Whew! Just finished reading all of the discovery file! My heart literally hurts! Poor Shanann and her family. Why couldn’t he just leave and be a dead beat dad?!? Ugh. And NK her interview with media vs the discovery file. Wow and the recovery of the bodies omg I literally cried. Those poor babies and Shanann

And now- the 3 terabytes of video and pictures. Good grief this case is just heart wrenching!!!! But i will have to go though every one of those too.

He could have easily left and rode off into the sunset with NK.

SW family and friends would have gathered around and she would have been just fine.

They had to die because he cared more about people thinking he was "bad".


Moo

 

[Nessa131]

I wonder if they have him on some anti depressants or something that would aid in the weught gain. I know my sister in law gained like 50 pounds in 3 months from them.

 

[katydid23]

Imagine had he said "I want a lawyer" when he first started conversing with LE.

I really think he might have walked away from this, without prison time, if he had called 911, and said that SW killed the babies. I don't think there would have been any evidence otherwise. It would be his word against a dead woman's word.

If he called 911, then lawyered up, he probably would be sitting in that house, as a widowed bachelor, right now.

 

[molly1255]

They'd just ship him back to the county jail for the duration ofthe trial. If he deson't file an answer it will go in to civil default. No trial. Civil Default Judgement. Sad thing is that his homeowners insurance may actually have to payoff on it. and I'm saying MAY! We don't know what policy stipulates for 3rd party liability!

Intentional acts are excluded in every homeowners policy I've ever seen.

 

[Nessa131]

He could have easily left and rode off into the sunset with NK.

SW family and friends would have gathered around and she would have been just fine.

They had to die because he cared more about people thinking he was "bad".


Moo

That and child support for 3 kids and alimony (if CO has that) but FA are just a different breed of people

 

[opalonyx]

I hope CW saw that. While he was planning the task of annihilating his entire family and hiding their bodies, NK was having "house guests". I hope he feels betrayal in the biggest way. It's the least he deserves.

 

[Gardener1850]

Did we talk about CW calling NK 5 times between midnight and around 2 AM on Aug 14th?

Discovery Pg 1120 (top five calls-- the number ending in 1702 was his personal cell):

Christopher Watts discovery file | Garage (Residential) | Bathroom

I kind of scanned past this before. Wondering what the significance was? Did NK explain those calls?

 

[kay74]

Why didn't he have his truck packed with his belongings, grab his keys, cell and wallet and leave when she came home. I'm sure his mommy would have given him money to stay somewhere. Shannan would have eventually remarried someone who appreciated her. This did not have to happen.

 

[liltexans]

Hi all,

I'm going to start a new thread. Before I do, can anyone let me know if you need/want any posts brought over to the new thread? I've been sick so I'm out of the loop on the latest discussion, but I'll be happy to bring over posts that you all need. Thanks!

 

[nwmouse]

He could have easily left and rode off into the sunset with NK.

SW family and friends would have gathered around and she would have been just fine.

They had to die because he cared more about people thinking he was "bad".


Moo

And the money issue.
He did not want to pay child support or spousal support. Meant less fun with his AP.
Selfish, greedy monster!

moo

 

[PommyMommy]

Chris Watts pictured in mugshot as he is transferred to prison to begin serving five life sentences | Daily Mail Online

Chris Watts was seen in a new mugshot after being transferred from the Weld County Jail to the Colorado Department of Corrections.

The convicted murderer, who is serving five life sentences without parole for the deaths of his pregnant wife Shanann and their daughters Celeste and Bella, looked emotionless in the photo, which showed him freshly shaved and without his glasses.

His grim future was spelled out in the accompanying inmate information, which revealed there would be no future parole dare or hearing for Watts.

And next to his estimated discharge date was '12/31/9998.'

At the same time, the parents of Shanann have filed a wrongful death lawsuit for the murders of their daughter, two granddaughters and the unborn grandson that Shanann was carrying at the time she was killed by her husband.

Shanann's parents are already set to receive $41,807.98 in restitution from Watts as ordered by the judge in his criminal case.

 

[SaguaroSpirit]

I think "Are we bad people" came from NK, and there were many texts from her deleted before this one.

Yeah, IMHO they're BAD PEOPLE.

 

[Allabouttrial]

That and child support for 3 kids and alimony (if CO has that) but FA are just a different breed of people

What do you mean "a different breed of people"?

 

[nwmouse]

Chris Watts pictured in mugshot as he is transferred to prison to begin serving five life sentences | Daily Mail Online
View attachment 157244
Chris Watts was seen in a new mugshot after being transferred from the Weld County Jail to the Colorado Department of Corrections.

The convicted murderer, who is serving five life sentences without parole for the deaths of his pregnant wife Shanann and their daughters Celeste and Bella, looked emotionless in the photo, which showed him freshly shaved and without his glasses.

His grim future was spelled out in the accompanying inmate information, which revealed there would be no future parole dare or hearing for Watts.

And next to his estimated discharge date was '12/31/9998.'

At the same time, the parents of Shanann have filed a wrongful death lawsuit for the murders of their daughter, two granddaughters and the unborn grandson that Shanann was carrying at the time she was killed by her husband.

Shanann's parents are already set to receive $41,807.98 in restitution from Watts as ordered by the judge in his criminal case.

He looks pretty pasty and unremarkable without his tan and mangina.
Pathetic little man. He's a monster in sheep's clothing.

moo

 

[Nessa131]

What do you mean "a different breed of people"?

Sorry i worded that bad. I just meant they do not think like normal rational people. Just leave and be a dead beat. In their mind killing is better. Sorry if i offended anyone. It was not my intention