GUILTY CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *CW LWOP* #60

[riolove77]

He wanted Shanann to be totally unsuspecting of any trouble ahead. Lulled into a false sense of security. Same as agreeing to the weekend away and asking her to wait until Monday to announce baby Niko's name.

The waiting to announce the name in and of itself speaks premeditation for me! He didn't want to humanize the baby by giving him a name. He just wanted to be done with him and all of them. He specifically wanted to wait until 8/13, which so happened to be the day he murdered them all? He just didn't count on her telling people that weekend...

 

[AgeofAquaruis]

He wanted Shanann to be totally unsuspecting of any trouble ahead. Lulled into a false sense of security. Same as agreeing to the weekend away and asking her to wait until Monday to announce baby Niko's name.

Everything they do is calculating.

 

[MsBetsy]

Written here somewhere, CW stopped his truck, at a housing estate.
Could he have placed these items into a bin, now gone to landfill?
MOO.

He must have gotten rid of them somehow. The only other thing that I thought of was he intended to save them as some sick way to remember them and they are hidden somewhere. But probably not. Imo

 

[Thinker Belle]

I really hope so and I hope she didn’t have to look into his eyes in her last seconds to minutes alive.

I sure hope so too. It’s just too awful to consider her looking into her husbands eyes while he choked the life from her.
Another thing that haunts me is knowing that little Bella may have been awake when she was murdered since the coroner report showed that she fought back. Did she wake up and see her Daddy killing her Mommy before he turned on her? That’s horrible to even type. But CW did say Bella was anxious and unable to sleep that evening due to be excited about SWs return and she kept getting out of bed. I know to take everything he has said with a grain of salt but I do think like all good liars, he peppered his many lies with bits of truth here and there so it is a definite possibility that part was accurate. Those poor, precious babies..

 

[x_files]

Yes I admit I haven't been this curious into other "FA" cases before to know if this is a pattern but he just seems strange and contradictory to me. I do believe he did it, and I do believe he has a cog (well a whole case of cogs) loose but I don't know when or how that happened. I may have been totally projecting what would make sense to me and not what was true for him but I felt he seemed to get very emotional when his parents gave statements and it seems like he hates disappointing or looking bad to people?

(This is not defending or praising him) Like it's just weird to me. It seems like all through interviews he doesn't want to look bad or for his coworkers to have to get involved. I wonder if he was at some point where he was absolutely going to disappoint someone and in his mind he was just going to make his family disappear to fix that problem. (Which yes I know is sick and makes no sense!)

I would actually be more surprised if he did this in an upfront confronting way of showing Shanann the dead kids before killing her verses trying to sneak up and kill her and maybe them from behind or with faces covered so they weren't seeing him, so in his odd mind he could never have to totally face what he was doing if no one else "knew"? It's still horrible horrible either way, but I hope she never had to see or know about the girls before, so I may just want to believe it happened that way.

Masks that psychopaths create. They desire to be admired and loved so, they desire to be seen as good, right, a martyr or savior.

 

[MassGuy]

He must have gotten rid of them somehow. The only other thing that I thought of was he intended to save them as some sick way to remember them and they are hidden somewhere. But probably not. Imo

I’m assuming that they were placed in a dumpster somewhere.

He might not have wanted to admit this, as it would appear that he was more calculating than he wanted to let on.

He’s practical, not sentimental.

 

[LAHOLLA]

Re: TB.

I was in the Facebook group where he first popped up. This was prior to being interviewed on TV, etc. I honestly can’t remember if there was definitive proof that this guy was a troll but I don’t think he’s legit in any way. I’m going to go look in that group now to see if proof was ever shown but I do know it’s all subjective.

 

[AgeofAquaruis]

Heartbreaking, I just can’t imagine. Just why the hell didn’t he go AWOL with NK instead. So many people do that.

To escape child support,and other responsibilities that decent people take of.

 

[MCElizabethsSISTER]

BBM Initally, I thought he had killed the girls first and then had overtaken Shannon at the top of the stairs/loft area/sofa where her phone was found. However, after reading the document dump, the scenario you described makes the most sense to me. It connects some crucial dots, imo. Im still wondering if Shannan was on the sofa when he strangled her, though. He states that he put her "back in bed" - who knows if that's truth or fiction. I can see her laying down, not wanting to disturb anyone, taking off her watch, the pants she was wearing, laying her phone next to her on the sofa and falling asleep. If she was lying on one side, the sofa ( and a blanket if one was used) would limit any movement she could make. After killing her, he takes her "back to bed" and rolls her up in a sheet. I just don't think he was thinking about her phone or watch and hiding them.( He left everything else(suitcase, purse, keys, shoes) out and the beds messy and unmade). I also feel, that if he did kill the girls after Shannon, that Bella may have heard some grunting or commotion and walked out into the loft and saw what was going on. Just thinking outloud- I waffle back and forth on the different scenarios and premeditation factors coming into play. Brain freeze! MOO

Edited to follow up on the quote: I DO think he killed them all around the same time if the dogs were correct. They would have alerted elsewhere in the house (their beds) if they had been dead a while.

I had a thought because of how her mouth was injured. What if she was awake and standing and he came up behind her and smothered her? Maybehe only intended on killing SW but after there was a witness he decided to kill everyone

 

[NuttMegg]

Wow. NK really did do her research on Amber Frey. She truly thought that she was going to be the poor and played mistress. Notice the stark similarities to AF in this picture from the type of dress, facial expression and makeup. Unfortunately for NK, she doesn’t seem to possess even a fraction of the character and integrity that AF displayed during her time in the spotlight.

Sorry NK, you grossly missed the mark on this one.

reminds me of certain actresses who made their careers on casting couches and doing racy B movies, then they reach a certain age when the formula doesn't work anymore so they get all serious.

 

[Mellowmelly]

I sure hope so too. It’s just too awful to consider her looking into her husbands eyes while he choked the life from her.
Another thing that haunts me is knowing that little Bella may have been awake when she was murdered since the coroner report showed that she fought back. Did she wake up and see her Daddy killing her Mommy before he turned on her? That’s horrible to even type. But CW did say Bella was anxious and unable to sleep that evening due to be excited about SWs return and she kept getting out of bed. I know to take everything he has said with a grain of salt but I do think like all good liars, he peppered his many lies with bits of truth here and there so it is a definite possibility that part was accurate. Those poor, precious babies..

That doesn’t bear thinking about.

 

[tmar]

When I first read this, I thought it was pretty bizarre. Wouldn't it seem so obvious to the police officer and NUA that CW was trying to get ahead of them and hide things/make sure everything looked as it should? Under what guise might he have used to justify his actions? I can't think of a decent excuse to get out from under the officer's sight without looking suspicious.

However we are talking about CW here...someone who thought he was so smart that he was smiling in his TV interviews. Yup, CW, you sure had us fooled you sneaky sly one!

Pleased that CW must have been under a lot of stress, at this time.
Thinking quickly, "I must hide stuff".
However, as with everything else CW failed.
MOO.

 

[Tortoise]

I struggle with that as well. What jumped out at me while reading discovery was how SW complimented CW on the nice job he did with the girls' hair for the birthday party. Just hours before he smothers them, he spends the time and effort to put their hair up in sweet little ponytails. Who does that? If he went into it knowing he was going to kill his kids that night, I would expect him to be completely checked out. Going through the motions of attending a party you said you would go to is one thing, but doing their hair seems a bit extra...I don't know. It puzzles my brain.

I think it was calculated to ensure that anyone thinking back would say he couldn't have anything to do with their disappearance, he was acting like a devoted dad. I really do believe that more than thinking it's just a possibility. He put thought into this and did not want a hair out of place, literally. Happy well looked after children, so that no one says oh yeah, he was acting weird and uncaring on Sunday. These were to be his witnesses.

MOO

 

[MsBetsy]

Why say that when you know you’re going to be murdering them all within hours, it’s like he got some sick enjoyment out of it.

He had to make sure she would not suspect anything. If she grew suspicious or sensed danger, it would have messed up his plans. Everything he did and said in the days before the murder was deliberate. Imo

 

[x_files]

Or a mixture. SP's mom didn't really spoil him. She annihilated his identity. Cindy Anthony was the same. But anyone who criticized her child in the outside world was refuted.

In the home any independent thought or feeling that doesn't mirror the feelings of the parent, is annihilated. But when people claim their kid did something wrong, it's aggressively denied.

That creates a manipulative person who feels they can get away with murder and a person motivated to do so because they're sometimes incapable of expressing any true emotion or appearing less than perfect, due to narcissistic panic of being unmasked. So they can't get a divorce or give up custody of a child. Etc.

IMO.

Intriguing!

 

[Tuliptiptoe]

To escape child support,and other responsibilities that decent people take of.

I don't think it was child support or any obligations.

I think he really wanted everyone to think of him as "the good guy" and a good guy wouldn't run off on his wife and kids.

He wanted to stay in Co (although not in same house) and maintain his job and friends with everyone feeling sorry for him and thinking he was "good" and mean, bossy SW took his kids.

Moo

 

[Thepoet]

Exactly. And caveat: I don't know if he's a sociopath or psychopath. Probably a narcissist.

A particularly intelligent poster though, early on, challenged my notion that he probably was one of those things. She pointed out how he doesn't fit the criteria really for NPD or APD.

I wish we could've explored that more and other contradictions like that which could've pointed away from CW as a stone cold killer, rather than devolving into the baseless, "open-minded" hate-fest against poor Shanann, that I feel the debate about his possible innocence, became.

Because the contradictions are interesting. The questions about what a murderer of his own kids looks like or can look like, and how he did or didn't match, could've been productive and intellectually-driven.

I completely agree! Missed opportunity. I believe we have an anomaly here; someone who is not one thing (narcissist), but a combination of behaviors from more than one type; some Narcissistic Personality Disorder and some Borderline Personality Disorder, for instance. Hates his mother, but wants her approval, but wants to punish her. What a maelstrom his mind must be! What can you look for, in advance, as a warning?

 

[LAHOLLA]

Re: TB.

I was in the Facebook group where he first popped up. This was prior to being interviewed on TV, etc. I honestly can’t remember if there was definitive proof that this guy was a troll but I don’t think he’s legit in any way. I’m going to go look in that group now to see if proof was ever shown but I do know it’s all subjective.

Okay, yes- his story kept changing. He met him on tinder, then he met him on meetme. Then he posted screenshots of alleged fb convos between him and CW. He also said he met Bella and CeCe at one point. I honestly don’t remember if he said that when he was interviewed bc I skipped past most of the discovery that included him bc I just don’t buy it.

 

[LovesChocolate]

Total consternation and terror. It is said to be an agonizing death. To Chris I think he just thought it would be the easiest and cleanest way to go.
I bet LE knew how he killed them even before the polygraph. When he was asked to think of all of the ways to kill someone he said, " you could stab someone, shoot someone, you could beat someone or use an object and hit them in the head, poison them.... "then he appeared to be thinking and at that moment when the investigator said, "you can strangle someone," they knew the cause of death. Then he agrees and quickly adds, "you can hang someone." It must have been painfully obvious when he mentioned all the ways except for what he actually did. Imo

They wouldn't have known; they didn't have the bodies yet at that point. But I was impressed that he (detective) nailed it.

 

[LAHOLLA]

They wouldn't have known; they didn't have the bodies yet at that point. But I was impressed that he (detective) nailed it.

I think they just narrowed it down to methods that wouldn’t leave behind an obvious crime scene, right?