GUILTY CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *CW LWOP* #62

[Herat]

Yep, “lovebombing” big time.
I tell you, it’s like these guys (I do realize not all people with NPD are male) are all reading from the same playbook.

Yes. When you finally see it in someone close to you it's astonishing how close to the classic NPD descriptions their actions are.

That's why it is important to understand what the terms are to describe the classic behaviours.

 

[Dum-Dum Sucker]

I hope that NUA telling him that she had called the police caused that!

lol

 

[opalonyx]

And in a way, killing your children is killing yourself or a big part of yourself. Children are your way of going on after you’re gone - your immortality. I don’t know. I’ll never get any of this and trying makes my head hurt

I think the opposite actually as far as his kids. I think he devalued SW, and NK and his family helped egg it on. The girls were extensions of SW. I remember him saying he knew he "wanted to separate" when the girls started to repeat the same insults to him that their mom did. Now we all know CW is a coward and he never wanted to confront SW to separate or divorce despite her asking if it's what he wanted. So when he says he knew he wanted to separate, I think he meant he was ready to disentangle from SW and the kids. Permanently.

I also notice when he described the kids, he mainly brought up unpleasant things. "They threw chicken nuggets at me. Bella kept asking for mom. I didn't want them to Facetime with Shanann because it would be a cryfest. Cece is called rampage. I miss them barrel rushing me. I miss telling them to eat their dinner. Cece only has two modes: going or asleep." ETC

SW dad says CW was cold and angry with the kids in North Carolina because they wanted nothing to do with him. The lady at the bungee cord place said he was completely disengaged from the girls and there was no affection. I think he noticed the girls preferred SW and her family and this caused major narcissistic injury so he was ready to discard them too. When he saw NK wasn't a fan of his kids, that added more fuel to the fire. He was done with them.

I am no psychologist of course so MOO.

 

[Loveallmyhorsesdogsandcats]

It is inconsistent when people say he chooses someone like his mother because he is used to abuse.

It is inconsistent when people say she was sick so he liked to be the knight in shining armor ,and then felt he was no longer needed when she became better.

He cannot choose an abusive person when he is choosing to be the knight.

Either he is consistent in choosing abusive mates or he is not.

Either he wants to be seen as the knight in shining armor or he does not.

He is no Scott Peterson. He was the golden child and SW said that CW was second rate in comparison to the sister.

SP did not physically kill his child as did CW.

CW is his own type. He is an FA who only wants a new life. Is his only barricade money to get what he wants? I don’t see religion or failure as a provider or paranoia playing any role. His family was an inconvenience.

Agree, to use another posters words ( I think Mitch 11) he was problem solving, out with the old, in with the new.

 

[Herat]

I think it's entirely understandable that NK would be Googling on Aug 14 about the disappearances of SW and the girls. She seemed to have been following the story very closely, as were many local people.

What I don't get is why she intentionally deleted these searches from her phone prior to the LE interview.

And - there must have been texts between NK and CW on Aug 14, 15, & 16. Does LE have them? Are they going to be released? Other than the photo of the sunflower (!!) I'm not recalling that anything else has been released.

And the Sunflower photo - whew. That's really psycho.

 

[k-mac]

I'm convinced it never would have lasted. If he had never killed them and continued the relationship it likely would have gotten old in a few months.

yeah that's my sadness about it all too .
NK has showed us she is very very jealous of shanann by what she hasn't said
I suspect by the time nico was born it would have been all over (noway NK would emotionally be strong enough to compete with that. it might not be all sexy but new babies do imo bring closeness to mums and dads that is irrefutable and strong. its instinctive.
a son.
a son that he always wanted.
if shanann had of just played hard to get with him (and booted his sorry *advertiser censored* to the kerb) I truly believe this would have been over very very quickly.

moo
.

 

[Jessthinkin]

As usual, you point out and thing that you say or what all of us have been thinking but we did not know how to express it.

Exactly on point when you said he brought out the videos of his children while he was waiting in the room.

Whether guilty or not guilty, I would think he would be in sobs watching those videos. But he did nothing as far as emotion. He was bored of it

. I find that just so unbelievable and I cannot understand it.

I noticed that he took a good LONG look right into the camera (checking to see if it was still on?) before he started watching his girls' videos... it seemed very calculated (um, except for the staring at the camera first!)

And all of the things he did "helping" Shanann with the kids ... bathing, feeding, etc. -- could've been done with mounting resentment all along the way.... From what I've seen of his mom, she ruled with an iron fist and brooked no disagreement, so he probably learned very early on to just smile and comply while seething underneath and he just continued with that "coping strategy" in his family life... IMO

 

[pinkie60]

Just wanted to comment on the nut issue. The watts had some ice cream with nuts and the sister put nuts on the table. Were they trying to get Shanann to leave? I wonder if CW was really running SW down behind her back to his family and they believed him doesn't seem SW could have done anything to make them dislike her that much. Small kids get into everything and a parent would literally have to have eyes in the back of ones head to make sure she didn't tKe any nuts

 

[Charlot123]

It is inconsistent when people say he chooses someone like his mother because he is used to abuse.

It is inconsistent when people say she was sick so he liked to be the knight in shining armor ,and then felt he was no longer needed when she became better.

He cannot choose an abusive person when he is choosing to be the knight.

Either he is consistent in choosing abusive mates or he is not.

Either he wants to be seen as the knight in shining armor or he does not.

He is no Scott Peterson. He was the golden child and SW said that CW was second rate in comparison to the sister.

SP did not physically kill his child as did CW.

CW is his own type. He is an FA who only wants a new life. Is his only barricade money to get what he wants? I don’t see religion or failure as a provider or paranoia playing any role. His family was an inconvenience.

I am thinking that our morality is a pretty new thing.
For centuries, people were making human sacrifices, killing virgins, killing firstborns, raping and killing enslaved prisoners. The morality as we see it is a pretty new trait.

(An example - a totally different condition, dyslexia, looks like a disability only till we remember how recently the alphabet was invented. 6-7 th B.C.? A tiny spot on the line of human history. Not all brains have adapted).

So if we assume that the first tribes who went away from sacrificing their firstborns did it about 3000 years ago, and in many other groups sacrifice continued, heck, the Vikings continued it in 2nd millennium AD, maybe it is easier to assume that not everyone is born with the morals? CW failed to escape the legal consequences, good, but the fact that he failed at morality? Maybe not so uncommon.

CW was taking good care of his kids because life with his sexual partner SW demanded it. His new sexual partner NK was seemingly disinterested in his kids. Financially it was easier to live without this burden. Off with the kids.

I think it is not his mom's fault. One of the parents must have passed over these genes to him. Something was off. Maybe soon we shall find out what area of the brain is over/underdeveloped in all these serial killers or FAs. Not today yet.

 

[NuttMegg]

And - there must have been texts between NK and CW on Aug 14, 15, & 16. Does LE have them? Are they going to be released?

I was really POd when they stopped the tape of her interview at Monday night.

 

[fabvab]

I thought it was odd that CW and NK went out in public to restaurants, etc. Wasn't CW worried about being seen by his or Shannan's friends?

 

[The Farm]

Sorry for being dense, but why would he walk outside in only socks, and put on his boots only right before he left? (Maybe so he could climb up and down the stairs quietly and immediately bag/remove each dead family member before they'd release smells that would trigger cadaver dogs? Or?)

I have no idea just like I have no idea why he killed his whole family. But you can see in the video that he does not have his boots on. If he had just killed them all before taking that stroll down the driveway maybe he was in a crazy mode and forgot to put them on.
I do not think he had the foresight to think about his boots releasing smells( because he is just not that smart) or having to be quiet because I think they were all dead upstairs. That night before Shannan got home he might have changed in the basement and that is where his boots were and then said Duh I have to put my boots on!

 

[MassGuy]

I am thinking that our morality is a pretty new thing.
For centuries, people were making human sacrifices, killing virgins, killing firstborns, raping and killing enslaved prisoners. The morality as we see it is a pretty new trait.

(An example - a totally different condition, dyslexia, looks like a disability only till we remember how recently the alphabet was invented. 6-7 th B.C.? A tiny spot on the line of human history. Not all brains have adapted).

So if we assume that the first tribes who went away from sacrificing their firstborns did it about 3000 years ago, and in many other groups sacrifice continued, heck, the Vikings continued it in 2nd millennium AD, maybe it is easier to assume that not everyone is born with the morals? CW failed to escape the legal consequences, good, but the fact that he failed at morality? Maybe not so uncommon.

CW was taking good care of his kids because life with his sexual partner SW demanded it. His new sexual partner NK was seemingly disinterested in his kids. Financially it was easier to live without this burden. Off with the kids.

I think it is not his mom's fault. One of the parents must have passed over these genes to him. Something was off. Maybe soon we shall find out what area of the brain is over/underdeveloped in all these serial killers or FAs. Not today yet.

In serial killers specifically, there is believed to be a bit of a mix going on:

Childhood trauma combined with some sort of genetic predisposition.

Anyone who studies these people, will tell you the same thing, they are still completely responsible for their actions.

He isn’t a sociopath because he chose to be, but he is a killer because he decided to be.

 

[kjpaw]

I’m going to start from what another member said (sorry I can’t remember who) about him realizing he was screwed when the polygraph examiner pointed out that his living room surveillance (activity not video). would have picked up SW and the kids downstairs that Monday morning if they left voluntarily or were taken by someone entering the house. He had to spin a story about why there was no activity on that after he left and the interrogators gave him the perfect alibi when they brought up her doing something to the kids. Although I also think it’s possible he'd already realized he’d screwed up bc of the downstairs security system so maybe he had that story ready to go anyway....

 

[opalonyx]

I agree, and think it makes sense that others have suggested that around the time SW mentions CW is "coming around/moving forward" is also when he's agreeing to things like a weekend trip, school registration, packing the girls backpacks for school, etc. etc. because he knows it's all moot.... IMO

Another sign of premeditation: he asked to move the gender reveal. He scheduled it for Monday. He knew it was never going to happen. He knew he never wanted NK to find out SW was pregnant. He definitely started planning ahead of time, even though it was half-baked.

 

[Charlot123]

rsbm ms betsy
I had to laugh at this point.
funny quick story to give you all a laugh x

one day my hubby and I went out for the entire day but unexpectantly came home early to find son (mr 16) and his mate had totally cleaned our house and were standing around rocking back and forth just like chris…….totally knew something was up ….
hmmmm ...found two girls hiding in a closet!!!!!!!

Did they tell you they brought in the girls to clean the house, lol?

 

[Herat]

NK seemed to be very determined to plan a future with CW, getting to the nitty -gritty of finances and apartments. Had he divorced, she would be calling the shots on lawyers, child support and she would have been up in it all.

She was more educated and driven than him. I think his lack of career ambition and his inability to deal realistically with the ugly finances of divorce would also be a looming incompatibility.

 

[Really?]

lol

I haven’t read back yet, pages behind. But, I think I know what you are referencing here. True....very true.
Jennifer17.......most likely it was.

 

[Jessthinkin]

I would say because he kept his work boots in the garage.

Ok, makes sense since who wants dirty work boots tramping through the house, and about the boots... I know his co-workers mentioned it being odd that he wore his old boots to work 8/13 -- does anyone know if he ditched that pair on his way home, or if he did end up with two pairs of boots? (Old and new?)

 

[Tortoise]

Just wanted to comment on the nut issue. The watts had some ice cream with nuts and the sister put nuts on the table. Were they trying to get Shanann to leave? I wonder if CW was really running SW down behind her back to his family and they believed him doesn't seem SW could have done anything to make them dislike her that much. Small kids get into everything and a parent would literally have to have eyes in the back of ones head to make sure she didn't tKe any nuts

I think it was done purposely and as you say to drive Shanann away. I'm not sure how much of it was Cindy and how much of it was the sister.