GUILTY CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *CW LWOP* #64

[scdiv]

BBM. I thought that it was NK that he complained about that to.

This was in the discovery document. What stands out to me is that it is the ONLY thing Shanann could think of as an example. She told her friends CW's comment about hanging a picture and she said she replied Okay! And realized she needed to make some changes. SW was a disciplined person who liked structure and routine. I don't know many wives who trust their husbands to hang pictures on the wall. I mean, I guess sometimes we have to humor them, but the risk is real that we end up with a big Steelers poster on the top half of the dining room wall if we give up such control.

But in all seriousness, SW was trying SO hard to understand why he was acting like this, being introspective, examining if she had played a role, wanted to go to counseling, figure out how they could communicate better.

Discover Document Page 489:

At dinner in Arizona, ADDY wanted to talk about SHANANN’s relationship matters. SHANANN had not told CINDY DEROSSETT about the matters between her and CHIRS, but did share with her at this time. It was known that SHANANN is the one that wears the pants in the relationship and CHRIS goes along with SHANANN’s decisions. SHANANN said that CHRIS made a comment recently stating he wished she would just let him hang a picture one time without her telling him where it goes. SHANANN replied, Okay, and realized that she needed to make some changes. She had not realized that she was controlling. SHANANN wanted to change to help her marriage. The friends talked with her about trying to save her marriage.

The only thing SHANANN could think of working on was possibly her being controlling and she wanted to work on that.

 

[MassGuy]

Perhaps he wasn't given the chance, given that SW had control issues. Before you jump on my back, this is what I got from the discovery document.

“Control issues?!”

Shanann was certainly “type A,” but I see nothing to indicate that she had “control issues.”

He wasn’t forced into marriage with her, and was used to it with his upbringing.

Although Cindy and SW were in reality, nothing alike.

Cindy is vicious, and controlling on another level. Jamie too.

 

[BrownRice]

yikes. Feel like I’m in the 1950s right now. Who cares if Chris had to do a lot of chores? Why is this even being discussed?

 

[Thepoet]

Perhaps he wasn't given the chance, given that SW had control issues. Before you jump on my back, this is what I got from the discovery document.

SW had NO control issues! Nowhere in discovery does it say she had control issues.
Once again you use "discovery document", like there is only one. Which one, saying; what?

 

[BrownRice]

Shan'ann Watts' Parents Say They Had No Clue Her Marriage Was Falling Apart
The Rzuceks said they believed their daughter was "absolutely" happy in her marriage to Watts and never suspected anything was amiss.

"She was extremely happy," said Frank.

Just released video shows Watts undergoing a physical examination for scratches or bruises that may have been caused from his final encounter with his wife.

Following the examination, Watts is left alone in the interview room and soon falls fast asleep, a picture of one of the children he slaughtered just inches away.

omg.

 

[mtnlites]

I agree. I have RA and it's not as serious as your health problem, but it's progressive and it causes chronic pain. I don't need pain medication daily and when I take it, it's the lowest dose possible, but you are correct, in today's world there is no such thing as a refill on pain medication. The doctor either needs to write out a paper script or do an electronic script. The doctor can't just call it into the pharmacy.

Too many people who don't need pain medication have abused the drugs and the government has cracked down on everyone. It's not fair to those who suffer from painful health conditions, and who need the drugs in order to try to live a somewhat normal life.

You're in my wheelhouse now! I just wrote an article for Huff Post about the war on pain pills and how it affects the chronically sick.

 

[Loveallmyhorsesdogsandcats]

That's true... although maybe at that time she still felt "he had no game" so couldn't possibly be cheating, so still had hope it was something they could work out (aside from the $60 dinner charge the night before). Perhaps when it all came out she'd feel differently but that's pure speculation. Her entire lifestyle was going to change because of lack of his income, and that alone might have affected her immensely. She did certainly seem to be kinder than I would have expected, even in discussing this with her friends.

Social media viciously went after her and the running theme became she was superficial and fake all based on her videos that were marketing tools to sell her Thrive. We see from her text with her friends that she was very real and not superficial, she was not afraid to discuss the weaknesses in her marriage, ask for their help and support. IDK, I think she gets a bad rap as being the one that supposedly put them in some financial stress but I think Chris was a very willing participant. In the discovery we found out it was her who contacted the realtor about selling the house, she was OK with letting go of that house. We also found out that Chris was googling Audi’s because he knew her Lexus would go back to thrive when she was no longer around to keep the car bonus. Yes, she seemed to like nice things but I don’t think that ruled her life. She was used to working hard and making things happen. I think if a divorce had happened she would’ve tightened up her bootstraps and got busy doing what she needed to do to support her family. I don’t think she would be having a pity party about losing the material things.

 

[JerseyWasHome2]

rsbm

Yet he dropped his interest in apartments by the Saturday before the murders. She thinks he lied to her about looking for an apartment, per her 2nd interview.

I missed that - interesting. Maybe he was truly conflicted on some level. Stay with the wife and kids, leave and try to be with NK. His pattern of phone use must have been making him crazy. Calls from the wife, many unanswered, then a call or text to the mistress, then looking and nude pics of NK and moving them to his secret app followed by more calls from SW begging him to talk to her. That last weekend must have created the volcano in his head.

 

[ZsaZsa]

Shan'ann Watts' Parents Say They Had No Clue Her Marriage Was Falling Apart
The Rzuceks said they believed their daughter was "absolutely" happy in her marriage to Watts and never suspected anything was amiss.

"She was extremely happy," said Frank.

Just released video shows Watts undergoing a physical examination for scratches or bruises that may have been caused from his final encounter with his wife.

Following the examination, Watts is left alone in the interview room and soon falls fast asleep, a picture of one of the children he slaughtered just inches away.

How did the hairstylist that worked with Sandi come up with the fact that they were talking of separation while in NC if she was "absolutely happy"?

 

[Nikynoo]

“Control issues?!”

Shanann was certainly “type A,” but I see nothing to indicate that she had “control issues.”

He wasn’t forced into marriage with her, and was used to it with his upbringing.

Although Cindy and SW were in reality, nothing alike.

Cindy is vicious, and controlling on another level. Jamie too.

See post 1677, direct quote from discovery.
We know nothing of his upbringing, we have only speculated.
Your last statement stumps me. We know neither well enough to know either way.

 

[Nikynoo]

yikes. Feel like I’m in the 1950s right now. Who cares if Chris had to do a lot of chores? Why is this even being discussed?

I think someone posted that CW was lazy.

 

[BrownRice]

Social media viciously went after her and the running theme became she was superficial and fake all based on her videos that were marketing tools to sell her Thrive. We see from her text with her friends that she was very real and not superficial, she was not afraid to discuss the weaknesses in her marriage, ask for their help and support. IDK, I think she gets a bad rap as being the one that supposedly put them in some financial stress but I think Chris was a very willing participant. In the discovery we found out it was her who contacted the realtor about selling the house, she was OK with letting go of that house. We also found out that Chris was googling Audi’s because he knew her Lexus would go back to thrive when she was no longer around to keep the car bonus. Yes, she seemed to like nice things but I don’t think that ruled her life. She was used to working hard and making things happen. I think if a divorce had happened she would’ve tightened up her bootstraps and got busy doing what she needed to do to support her family. I don’t think she would be having a pity party about losing the material things.

We also saw she was honest!!!!! Her message to everyone was similar. She didn’t tell one person a story and another person something else. She also didn’t speak poorly of anyone.

A true example of how kind people should live their lives. No wonder her peeps stepped up immediately.

 

[Nikynoo]

How did the hairstylist that worked with Sandi come up with the fact that they were talking of separation while in NC if she was "absolutely happy"?

and why did Sandi want SW to stay in NC if that was the case?

 

[MassGuy]

See post 1677, direct quote from discovery.
We know nothing of his upbringing, we have only speculated.
Your last statement stumps me. We know neither well enough to know either way.

Actions speak louder than words. Cindy has been public with her vitriol, Jamie has influenced people from the shadows.

She has a bit of a following, and these people are eating up the lies that she is feeding them.

Suckers.

 

[tmar]

Narcissists/sociopaths and abusers don't come from nowhere. Sometimes how those pieces came together for a certain perp is a bit of a mystery. NOT HERE.



Layla123, I beg you to read "The Sociopath Next Door" by Martha Stout. I think everything will become much clearer. These people really do believe they are so much smarter than everyone else, or so charming, or they just simply have so little concern with consequences, that they just assume they will get away with everything. The sad part is that sometimes actually they do! Their brains work totally different from normal people. I get how hard it is for normal people to wrap their heads around this, I do: I stayed with my abusive sociopath ex-husband for 8 years because I refused to believe that he could really have no compassion or empathy. I truly believed that everyone has good in them that could be drawn out if you just tried hard enough. (I even gave him the exact same book SW gave CW.) TO THIS DAY and even after going to jail and now being on probation for DV my ex still feels no empathy or compassion or true remorse for any of his cruel behavior. Even toward his own children! And he still blames everyone but himself for his problems and thinks there is nothing wrong with him.

We will all be so much safer once we admit these people do exist and will not change, and that we cannot "get through" to them and make them feel empathy or compassion or remorse no matter how good and kind and loving we are. We cannot give them the benefit of the doubt. Their brains are different. They are predators, even if they never become physically violent. We cannot make them stop being predatory with love or reason. We can only protect ourselves by refusing to engage with them! Knowledge is power. Knowledge is protection. Spread the word and protect yourselves and everyone you love.

Thanks Lore Listener.
Loved your post and advice.
Your last few sentences, I have copied to remember, as so important to know.

 

[PommyMommy]

How did the hairstylist that worked with Sandi come up with the fact that they were talking of separation while in NC if she was "absolutely happy"?

I don't know. CW did get a haircut there though... MOO

 

[mrjitty]

Respectfully disagree 100%. His plan was so bad, it didn't seem like a plan at all. At every turn he had a problem. As for putting the children's bodies in the oil tanks, sooner or later they would have been discovered. Then what? The bodies would have immediately been tied to Chris. Any way you slice it, he was completely trapped by his actions that night. His work truck movements could be tracked, so he was severely limited in his body disposal options. If he took out SW's car in the middle of the night, his neighbor's camera would have caught him (hell, he probably would have forgotten to turn off his cell phone in any case). If he tried to give himself more time to dispose of the bodies at site 319, he would have had to explain why he uncharacteristically left for work much earlier than usual. It was no-win for him. I can't think of a single scenario where he could have gotten away with this crime given the constraints he was under.

When I think of this case and Chris Watts, the movie Body Heat comes to mind. Remember the scene with a young Mickey Rourke explaining to William Hurt how to plant an incendiary bomb in a boathouse to help stage/dispose of the body of his lover's husband (Kathleen Turner)? Upon questioning Hurt why the hell he is contemplating this crime, Rourke says:

"Any time you try a decent crime, there are 50 ways you can f*ck up. If you can think of 25 of them, you are a genius. And you ain't no genius."​

Dave

Exactly

SW's body was always going to be found at CERVI 319. It's one of the first places the police would check.

 

[Mellowmelly]

True, but thats not what we were discussing.

Human was typing about how much cleaning CW did, unless I missed something?

 

[Nikynoo]

Actions speak louder than words. Cindy has been public with her vitriol, Jamie has influenced people from the shadows.

She has a bit of a following, and these people are eating up the lies that she is feeding them.

Suckers.

Really? They should give up!

 

[Nikynoo]

Human was typing about how much cleaning CW did, unless I missed something?

that was in response to a post that said CW was lazy. Anyway, done and dusted now.