GUILTY CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *CW LWOP* #71

[Beltonian]

Poor Shannan,..I keep wondering if she had a chance to stay alive if she would not been pregnant...If she only had two girls and have not been so vulnerable from pregnancy...Maybe, maybe she could be stronger and more confident [f not pregnant and decided to stay with girls in NC with her loving parents...Who knows if her fate was sealed when she got pregnant ( it was only a whim for CW - a third child - I want it - maybe it will make me feel different)...No consideration about his sick tired wife who already has two babies...This case is always in the back on my mind and keep thinking - what if, how situation could be different...

 

[Synergizer Bunny]

Here's an interesting Newsweek article from 2009. I can see CW in a lot of the descriptions/explanations. Why Ordinary People Murder Their Families

 

[pocketaccent]

So much about this case just doesn't make any sense. I want to be able to put all the pieces together and say, "Ah, ha! Now it makes sense!", but I know that in reality that is not going to happen.
But one of the things that just has me completely befuddled is...what do you think was CW's plan IF he had not gotten caught? What do you think was going to be his story for calling the girls' school that morning?
Do you think he was going to say that SW and him had discussed finances and divorce, and they agreed that he would call the school to disenroll the girls....and then SW just happened to take off with the girls that morning?

Based on CW's prison interview, I think he and Shanann fought that morning. He told her about the mistress when Shanann confronted him about the restaurant receipt. I think Shanann gave him an ultimatum. Call in sick, get out of this house today, or I will throw all your stuff out today and change the lock. CW said in the interview that he felt he wouldn't have been able to come back to the house after work. Also added he wished that he went to the Bronco's game instead on Saturday.

There's no doubt in my mind that he had been premeditating their murder for a few days. But I think that he killed them all earlier than planned. He had to. Shanann officially kicked him out that morning. He had to kill her right away because if he got kicked out, he thought his plan wouldn't work. So imo he committed an unprepared-haphazard- premeditated murder that morning.

I think that he called the school and the realtor because those were part of his original plan. Except he did it backwards.

Original plan may have looked like this:
-Shanann and the girls are still alive on Monday.
-He and Shanann are to call the school and realtor in preparation for the move and a possible divorce. Downsizing.
-Later that week, despondent Shanann disappears with the girls.

 

[molly1255]

So much about this case just doesn't make any sense. I want to be able to put all the pieces together and say, "Ah, ha! Now it makes sense!", but I know that in reality that is not going to happen.
But one of the things that just has me completely befuddled is...what do you think was CW's plan IF he had not gotten caught? What do you think was going to be his story for calling the girls' school that morning?
Do you think he was going to say that SW and him had discussed finances and divorce, and they agreed that he would call the school to disenroll the girls....and then SW just happened to take off with the girls that morning?

JMO, I believe his original plan was to sell the story that a distraught Shanann left her wedding ring behind and then disappeared with the girls after he told her he wanted to separate.

I think the phone call to the school was to try to cover why the girls weren't in school that morning, and to also back up his story on the separation and selling the house. I don't know exactly what he told the realtor, but I think he wanted it on record that both he and Shanann wanted to sell the house asap.

IMO, there was no way that CW would have ever gotten away with this. It may have taken a little longer to catch him if NUA had not gotten involved so quickly, but he made way too many mistakes that he could never begin to fix.

I do think he pre-planned this, and his plans may have started formulating when he was on his trip to NC. I think that he thinks he's the smartest guy in the room and he's quite arrogant and thought his con-artistry skills would carry him through this and LE would never even suspect he had a thing to do with it.

He didn't seem to have anticipated some of the tough questions he was being asked in his porch interviews and he failed those interviews miserably. In parts of his interviews, he couldn't even hide his delight because, in his mind, he thought he was fooling everyone. I've not seen a source for this yet, but I'm looking for it. It is being stated that CW admitted to LE that he giggled behind closed doors when LE was at his house, trying to figure out what happened to Shanann and the girls. Wouldn't surprise me one bit.

JMO, I think he felt very confident that he would get away with this and he put a lot of effort into those interrogations in an attempt to get away with it. In his mind, I think he wanted to get his hands on the equity in the home, and any other assets he could convert to cash. I think he would have gone out and bought himself an Audi and spent the rest buying NK jewelry and taking her on trips.

When the money was gone, I think he would have started to devalue her and in his mind, he would have blamed her for all of his financial misfortunes and she would have then been living the life Shanann was living the last few weeks of her life.

All JMO

 

[molly1255]

Based on CW's prison interview, I think he and Shanann fought that morning. He told her about the mistress when Shanann confronted him about the restaurant receipt. I think Shanann gave him an ultimatum. Call in sick, get out of this house today, or I will throw all your stuff out today and change the lock. CW said in the interview that he felt he wouldn't have been able to come back to the house after work. Also added he wished that he went to the Bronco's game instead on Saturday.

There's no doubt in my mind that he had been premeditating their murder for a few days. But I think that he killed them all earlier than planned. He had to. Shanann officially kicked him out that morning. He had to kill her right away because if he got kicked out, he thought his plan wouldn't work. So imo he committed an unprepared-haphazard- premeditated murder that morning.

I think that he called the school and the realtor because those were part of his original plan. Except he did it backwards.

Original plan may have looked like this:
-Shanann and the girls are still alive on Monday.
-He and Shanann are to call the school and realtor in preparation for the move and a possible divorce. Downsizing.
-Later that week, despondent Shanann disappears with the girls.

You might just be right that Shanann was upset with him and told him to get out. I initially thought this, but everything that came in after didn't seem to back that up. But all we really have is CW's words.

JMO, most wives would have been ready to boot him right out the front door after being treated the way he was treating Shanann for weeks, followed up by his very obvious dinner date on Saturday night.

 

[human]

She cannot kick him out of the house.

 

[DaisyKenny]

Based on CW's prison interview, I think he and Shanann fought that morning. He told her about the mistress when Shanann confronted him about the restaurant receipt. I think Shanann gave him an ultimatum. Call in sick, get out of this house today, or I will throw all your stuff out today and change the lock. CW said in the interview that he felt he wouldn't have been able to come back to the house after work. Also added he wished that he went to the Bronco's game instead on Saturday.

There's no doubt in my mind that he had been premeditating their murder for a few days. But I think that he killed them all earlier than planned. He had to. Shanann officially kicked him out that morning. He had to kill her right away because if he got kicked out, he thought his plan wouldn't work. So imo he committed an unprepared-haphazard- premeditated murder that morning.

I think that he called the school and the realtor because those were part of his original plan. Except he did it backwards.

Original plan may have looked like this:
-Shanann and the girls are still alive on Monday.
-He and Shanann are to call the school and realtor in preparation for the move and a possible divorce. Downsizing.
-Later that week, despondent Shanann disappears with the girls.

I think this is quite possible. In the prison interview he even admitted he screwed up by calling the realtor and school that morning.

 

[pocketaccent]

She cannot kick him out of the house.

I would kick my husband out if he cheated and had been cold and cruel for 6 weeks and told me he didn't want my unborn baby anymore. (I'm glad I haven't had to do that though. When I first got married, I told hubby that if he is going to cheat, do so so I don't ever find out. He came so quickly to hug me and told me that I never have to worry about that. He was right).

 

[molly1255]

Poor Shannan,..I keep wondering if she had a chance to stay alive if she would not been pregnant...If she only had two girls and have not been so vulnerable from pregnancy...Maybe, maybe she could be stronger and more confident [f not pregnant and decided to stay with girls in NC with her loving parents...Who knows if her fate was sealed when she got pregnant ( it was only a whim for CW - a third child - I want it - maybe it will make me feel different)...No consideration about his sick tired wife who already has two babies...This case is always in the back on my mind and keep thinking - what if, how situation could be different...

It is. It's just heartbreaking. In addition to being pregnant, working around the clock and being a super mom to her little girls, she was also having to deal with having lupus. If she had gone into a flare, there are probably a whole lot of meds she couldn't have taken for it and I think he was trying to push her into a flare by creating incredible stress.

She was so incredibly vulnerable, and he is so incredibly evil. It really wouldn't surprise me if the pregnancy was part of his master plan.

 

[human]

I would kick my husband out if he cheated and had been cold and cruel for 6 weeks and told me he didn't want my unborn baby anymore. (I'm glad I haven't had to do that though. When I first got married, I told hubby that if he is going to cheat, do so so I don't ever find out. He came so quickly to hug me and told me that I never have to worry about that. He was right).

Of course one would want the cheater to get out, but legally, no.

The house belongs to both

 

[molly1255]

I would kick my husband out if he cheated and had been cold and cruel for 6 weeks and told me he didn't want my unborn baby anymore. (I'm glad I haven't had to do that though. When I first got married, I told hubby that if he is going to cheat, do so so I don't ever find out. He came so quickly to hug me and told me that I never have to worry about that. He was right).

If I had someone do to me what he did to Shanann for weeks, he'd be lucky if it wasn't his dead carcass that got thrown out the front door.

 

[pinkie60]

The only bright side to this story is that he got caught and has a life long prison sentence to serve
I think the spirit of Shanann was very angry with what he did but even more so at the pain and suffering he caused her parents and brother. I think her spirit might have been tugging at Nicole Atkinson to call the police to foul him up

 

[human]

If I had someone do to me what he did to Shanann for weeks, he'd be lucky if it wasn't his dead carcass that got thrown out the front door.

Nah. Better he has to live with the mistress.

 

[opalonyx]

@molly1255 what red flags specifically? I must have missed these.

1) coldness towards the girls in the weeks before the murders
2) telling Shanann he didn't want the baby
3) "Joking" with a coworker (one whose wife had issues conceiving) who was congratulating him about the baby by asking "want one?"
4) Friends say he wasn't the "normal" Chris, who usually was very affectionate with SW and the girls
5) He ignored a sick SW who was vomiting for days and didn't express concern at all
6) Neighbor made the comment that CW got "crazy" in arguments with SW and he assumed SW had left him when she was gone to NC (although he later backtracked, I still think it's worth noting)

I understand those are specific to the 6 weeks before the murders. If we are talking about red flags before he met SW

1) Dysfunctional home. His father had a cocaine habit, mother and sister frequently fought when he was young. This was noted in the discovery.
2) SW had noted his mother wasn't very "nurturing" when he was growing up. Can't remember who said it but there was a comment that his sister was more of a mother to him than Cindy.
3) He said he was a good liar as a child. Made up a trip to China with a elementary school teacher. Seemed proud when he said that she believed him.
4) He admits he had trouble bonding with Bella. Perhaps evidence of borderline personality or another personality disorder? Says he warmed up to Cece easier but I think he mainly commented on her being quicker to attach to him than Bella. Him being bonded to either at all is highly questionable considering how he killed them and where he disposed of them. It's reminiscent of Casey and the way she dumped Caylee and behaved after the murder.
5) Few friends, no dating history before SW. Wasn't he mid 20s by that point? It's odd on a social level to have never dated until your mid 20s. He said he "liked" girls but didn't know how to interact with them. Another hint at a personality disorder?
6) Admits his whole life he had trouble "expressing emotion". Many of us have ponder if the reason he had trouble expressing emotion is he doesn't feel it the way a normal person does. Another nod to personality disorder.
7) Had to Google "what love feels like". Uses lyrics to express feelings instead of being capable identifying his feelings independently. Another nod to personality disorder.

There was also a former FBI profiler who has publically said she feels like CW is a covert narcissist.

 

[Seenit]

Here's an interesting Newsweek article from 2009. I can see CW in a lot of the descriptions/explanations. Why Ordinary People Murder Their Families

Thanks for sharing.

 

[Seenit]

Based on CW's prison interview, I think he and Shanann fought that morning. He told her about the mistress when Shanann confronted him about the restaurant receipt. I think Shanann gave him an ultimatum. Call in sick, get out of this house today, or I will throw all your stuff out today and change the lock. CW said in the interview that he felt he wouldn't have been able to come back to the house after work. Also added he wished that he went to the Bronco's game instead on Saturday.

There's no doubt in my mind that he had been premeditating their murder for a few days. But I think that he killed them all earlier than planned. He had to. Shanann officially kicked him out that morning. He had to kill her right away because if he got kicked out, he thought his plan wouldn't work. So imo he committed an unprepared-haphazard- premeditated murder that morning.

I think that he called the school and the realtor because those were part of his original plan. Except he did it backwards.

Original plan may have looked like this:
-Shanann and the girls are still alive on Monday.
-He and Shanann are to call the school and realtor in preparation for the move and a possible divorce. Downsizing.
-Later that week, despondent Shanann disappears with the girls.

That is likely the best quick synopsis I have read. Thanks for sharing.

 

[Seenit]

JMO, I believe his original plan was to sell the story that a distraught Shanann left her wedding ring behind and then disappeared with the girls after he told her he wanted to separate.

I think the phone call to the school was to try to cover why the girls weren't in school that morning, and to also back up his story on the separation and selling the house. I don't know exactly what he told the realtor, but I think he wanted it on record that both he and Shanann wanted to sell the house asap.

IMO, there was no way that CW would have ever gotten away with this. It may have taken a little longer to catch him if NUA had not gotten involved so quickly, but he made way too many mistakes that he could never begin to fix.

I do think he pre-planned this, and his plans may have started formulating when he was on his trip to NC. I think that he thinks he's the smartest guy in the room and he's quite arrogant and thought his con-artistry skills would carry him through this and LE would never even suspect he had a thing to do with it.

He didn't seem to have anticipated some of the tough questions he was being asked in his porch interviews and he failed those interviews miserably. In parts of his interviews, he couldn't even hide his delight because, in his mind, he thought he was fooling everyone. I've not seen a source for this yet, but I'm looking for it. It is being stated that CW admitted to LE that he giggled behind closed doors when LE was at his house, trying to figure out what happened to Shanann and the girls. Wouldn't surprise me one bit.

JMO, I think he felt very confident that he would get away with this and he put a lot of effort into those interrogations in an attempt to get away with it. In his mind, I think he wanted to get his hands on the equity in the home, and any other assets he could convert to cash. I think he would have gone out and bought himself an Audi and spent the rest buying NK jewelry and taking her on trips.

When the money was gone, I think he would have started to devalue her and in his mind, he would have blamed her for all of his financial misfortunes and she would have then been living the life Shanann was living the last few weeks of her life.

All JMO

I completely agree that there is no way he would have gotten away with this. His reasoning/planning is disjointed in so many ways. None of it makes sense. If he was going to go with the story that SW left that morning, I don't know why he would alert the school to the girls not being there.

One thing is for sure, if CW does, in fact, think he is the smartest guy in the room....then we do know he is delusional.

 

[human]

Here's an interesting Newsweek article from 2009. I can see CW in a lot of the descriptions/explanations. Why Ordinary People Murder Their Families

He does not seem to fit this.

 

[Gardenista]

Well yes I’ve seen those. But she also has several where she expresses how fortunate she is to be able to be a stay at home mom. The kids were so little still, able to be at home with mom, and would have begun attending kindergarten soon enough. I’m perplexed as to why she would put them in an expensive preschool full time.
I hope no one misunderstands. It’s just an observation.

She was working full-time.

I assure you, no one misunderstands.

 

[pinkie60]

Does anyone know when Bella and Cece started preschool? Was it when she found out she was pregnant or before? Just wondering if she wasn't feeling well that's why she put them in school