GUILTY CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *CW LWOP* #72

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NuttMegg said:
No, I don't think he said he didn't love her anymore, to her, until he was choking her to death if even then. And he certainly didn't say it to anyone in her family. The week before he murdered her he had agreed to a romantic vacation with her, and she had arranged baby sitters. Why would she stay in NC longer? Their children were starting school, they were arranging pre-financing to get a different home, there was no way for her to know that he was involved with another woman, because he was afraid to tell her. What would you do if your husband was all onboard for another baby, and then 4 months later was vacillating? Would you move out and give him the house, or would you try to work it out, given that he had been gung ho shortly before? And hands all over her romantically just before she left for NC? I understand you are musing over things that "could have" happened, a meteor could have fallen on Frederick, too.
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I love this post!
 
human said:
Although women cheat, the question I have here is a out men.

It seems like 99.999% of the time, men divorce when they have someone else on board. Most people are ordinary and certainly will have financial stress when having to support two households.

Most people are living paycheck to paycheck if studies are accurate.

So how could anyone tell if their SO will be a killer?

CW was not young so he had history of friends and activities. SW thought he was a great father and her parents lived with them for months and apparently did not see anything wrong.

Her brother lived with them as well.

No one saw through the mask.

Plenty of people have unfortunate parents. People have abuse and sexual abuse in their backgrounds. Yet, they are not killers.

What is it?

I saw the red flags list posted and not much stands out to me that wouldn’t fit so many people
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Yes, this is the scariest part. And not trusting our loved ones won’t kill us isn’t a great path to healthy relationships.

What if there isn’t a distinction in the minds of those killers vs the millions of other “normal” people w/unfortunate backgrounds—until one day there is? And there’s really no way to predict at all? That would be a difficult pill to swallow.
 
NuttMegg said:
Did you ever get it clear who really took SW to the airport on Friday?
I know he took the day off to "take her to the airport" (Friday), but then I also read that Nickole took her to the airport, leaving her car there. I think Nickole said so.
Anyway he must have spent the night at home with the children on Friday, but I find it odd that he didn't tell NK all day Friday, Friday night, all day Saturday, until Saturday night that SW was out of town.
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NK stated in her LE interview that she picked Shanann up very early Friday morning, and Shanann was standing on the porch waiting for her.

It is very interesting that CW didn't tell NK that Shanann was out of town until they had their date Saturday evening. If I was NK, I'd wonder why he didn't tell me that earlier because Friday night would have been a great opportunity to spend time alone together.

CW made time for NK on Wednesday and then on Saturday evening the week he got back from NC. That's not much, and it's a far cry from when he was sleeping at NK's place nearly every night.

NK said he didn't want to talk about the apartment search Saturday evening. She had been searching online for an apartment for him and for wedding dresses, too.

If I were NK, I would thinking he was gearing up to give me the heave ho.

JMO
 
Yeah it's scary that no one could see what an evil greedy manipulative he was ahead of time, but what's surprised me the most is his fans/supporters trying to rationalize what he did. And that's after it's blindingly obvious what he did and what he is.

He's a one in a million kind of evil, but his fans seem to think he is fine husband and father material if only he had the right woman. They are also scary and disturbing because they are the same type of women who would welcome any kind of man around their kids if they found him remotely appealing to themselves.
MOO
 
Gardenista said:
IMO the women in the CW fan club are just like Mama Watts. They feel like her behavior is A-OK because it is the same way they behave. They are the nightmare MIL's you hear about or will be hearing about.
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Yes, I know what you mean. There are certainly those types among his fans. Some are much worse than that. I've read comments from a few of his male fans elsewhere saying they would be killers themselves if only they could get away with it.
 
molly1255 said:
NK stated in her LE interview that she picked Shanann up very early Friday morning, and Shanann was standing on the porch waiting for her.

It is very interesting that CW didn't tell NK that Shanann was out of town until they had their date Saturday evening. If I was NK, I'd wonder why he didn't tell me that earlier because Friday night would have been a great opportunity to spend time alone together.

CW made time for NK on Wednesday and then on Saturday evening the week he got back from NC. That's not much, and it's a far cry from when he was sleeping at NK's place nearly every night.

NK said he didn't want to talk about the apartment search Saturday evening. She had been searching online for an apartment for him and for wedding dresses, too.

If I were NK, I would thinking he was gearing up to give me the heave ho.

JMO
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So he didn't tell NK (about needing the babysitter, not being able to spend the night with her) Wednesday night, Thursday, Friday, Saturday, until sometime after 5:30 when their date started.
Re the airport, in one of those interviews, IIRC the one in the parking lot/Firestick, it was mentioned that CW had the day off to take SW to the airport.
I wonder what vehicle he used to visit NK Wednesday night, remember he had told his boss that the GPS on his truck might show up at other addresses because of all the marital stress in his life, so he had that one covered :rolleyes::rolleyes:.

So, he was busy balancing lies to everyone, even his employer, as the self-created pressure built. Avoiding telling the mistress, hey I just can't really ever get away anymore, telling SW they were going to have a romantic getaway.
NK was a lot more volatile than we had known before he told Lee/Coder the ledge bit, she went off over the smallest things. She, IMO, clearly read him the riot act Saturday night and then continuously for 111 minutes right before he murdered them.
He apparently didn't have enough gumption to hang up.
 
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Gardenista said:
IMO the women in the CW fan club are just like Mama Watts. They feel like her behavior is A-OK because it is the same way they behave. They are the nightmare MIL's you hear about or will be hearing about.
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From the CW cult YT podcasts, I see "unrequited love" screaming from that horrible woman, probably a life time of it. At least with a guy in prison, he can't dump her like the other guys did. Throughout her "analysis" of CW's confession, she used words like "Chris admitted", instead of alleged, claimed, said, etc.
See the difference? And I am not referring to the part describing the murders, it was in parts like, paraphrased, "CW admitted that SW said he would never see his kids..." "CW admitted that he was not aware of financial difficulties...."

The use of the word "admitted" bestows a ring of truth to the sentence, as though it was known to be true and he admitted it.

That podcast is full of that, plus the ones we see here sometimes, "She" decided on day care, "She" bought a big house, "She" made herself and poor him go bankrupt, "She" made him wear the patches. (Even while she was away in NC).
 
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pinkie60 said:
Off topic but Chris Coleman is in the same prison as CW. He is serving a life sentence for strangling his wife and 2 sons after having an affair with her best friend. Maybe they'll become cellmates ,lol
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Maybe they can hold joint counseling sessions for other troubled inmates who have murdered their wives and kids weighing 130 pounds less than they do.
 
NuttMegg said:
So he didn't tell NK (about needing the babysitter, not being able to spend the night with her) Wednesday night, Thursday, Friday, Saturday, until sometime after 5:30 when their date started.
Re the airport, in one of those interviews, IIRC the one in the parking lot/Firestick, it was mentioned that CW had the day off to take SW to the airport.
I wonder what vehicle he used to visit NK Wednesday night, remember he had told his boss that the GPS on his truck might show up at other addresses because of all the marital stress in his life, so he had that one covered :rolleyes::rolleyes:.

So, he was busy balancing lies to everyone, even his employer, as the self-created pressure built. Avoiding telling the mistress, hey I just can't really ever get away anymore, telling SW they were going to have a romantic getaway.
NK was a lot more volatile than we had known before he told Lee/Coder the ledge bit, she went off over the smallest things. She, IMO, clearly read him the riot act Saturday night and then continuously for 111 minutes right before he murdered them.
He apparently didn't have enough gumption to hang up.
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Yep, yep and yep. All of the pressure for CW was 100% self-imposed. He apparently lied about having to take Shanann to the airport Friday and I don't know there was any purpose for that lie. He may have lying about that because he likes to lie.

I also think you are right and NK was extremely volatile. You can hear her very strongly trying to impose her will in the LE interviews. Imagine her attitude toward a lover who had not been straight with her about the progress of getting separated.

JMO, he never told Shanann he was having an affair. He didn't have the guts to do that, and he didn't have the guts to tell his lover to get off his back, either.

Would love to see the text message string between CW and NK the week he got back. I imagine she was getting pretty hostile because he wasn't doing the things he said would be done when he got back.

JMO, in the interview, I think she was trying to cover some of the things she said in those texts, in case LE found them. She said she told him to "go be with your kids" and she tried to make it sound like that's what she wanted him to do. I think there was also a lot of texting from her about him getting an apartment and she was pushing very hard on that, and I think the only reason she brought it up to LE was to make that appear as if she was only being helpful.

All JMO
 
molly1255 said:
Yep, yep and yep. All of the pressure for CW was 100% self-imposed. He apparently lied about having to take Shanann to the airport Friday and I don't know there was any purpose for that lie. He may have lying about that because he likes to lie.

I also think you are right and NK was extremely volatile. You can hear her very strongly trying to impose her will in the LE interviews. Imagine her attitude toward a lover who had not been straight with her about the progress of getting separated.

JMO, he never told Shanann he was having an affair. He didn't have the guts to do that, and he didn't have the guts to tell his lover to get off his back, either.

Would love to see the text message string between CW and NK the week he got back. I imagine she was getting pretty hostile because he wasn't doing the things he said would be done when he got back.

JMO, in the interview, I think she was trying to cover some of the things she said in those texts, in case LE found them. She said she told him to "go be with your kids" and she tried to make it sound like that's what she wanted him to do. I think there was also a lot of texting from her about him getting an apartment and she was pushing very hard on that, and I think the only reason she brought it up to LE was to make that appear as if she was only being helpful.

All JMO
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"Go be with your kids" if not in a simple text, that could take on several meetings. As in, yeah, Ahole, then go be with your blankedly blank kids if you can't even spend the night with me. The voice would tell it all, if not just a text.
Ask me again in 20 years if I believe she was telling him to get back with SW, spend time with the kids, etc. Because I won't believe it for a long long time.
 
NuttMegg said:
"Go be with your kids" if not in a simple text, that could take on several meetings. As in, yeah, Ahole, then go be with your kids if you can't even spend the night with me.
Ask me again in 20 years if I believe she was telling him to get back with SW, spend time with the kids, etc. Because I won't believe it for a long long time.
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Exactly! I can also see it being said to punish him by refusing to message with him, if he was with his kids and couldn't see her. I'll never believe she told him to try to make it work with Shanann, and I'll also never believe she didn't know that Shanann was pregnant.
 
How is NK any different than any other woman who has an affair with a married man with children?

The ones I have known do not care and often they have children of their own.

And as far as CW and his affair. How is he any different than any other man who had an affair? The only didference is that he killed his wife.
 
DaisyKenny said:
Yeah it's scary that no one could see what an evil greedy manipulative he was ahead of time, but what's surprised me the most is his fans/supporters trying to rationalize what he did. And that's after it's blindingly obvious what he did and what he is.

He's a one in a million kind of evil, but his fans seem to think he is fine husband and father material if only he had the right woman. They are also scary and disturbing because they are the same type of women who would welcome any kind of man around their kids if they found him remotely appealing to themselves.
MOO
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Couldn't agree more - he is a one in a million kind of evil. But they walk in our midst and they can be very hard to identify before they do something absolutely hideous. The victims who live through their ordeal with someone like this have a very hard time trying to recover from the horrible damage that's been to them emotionally and often financially. It can take years to recover, if they ever do recover.

It has been months since I've listened to any of that cr*p. It's so disturbing, I just can't even go there. I honestly think the ones who have done this and especially the ones who persist doing it, knowing full well exactly what he did and how he did it likely fall somewhere in the Cluster B spectrum themselves.

All JMO
 
human said:
How is NK any different than any other woman who has an affair with a married man with children?

The ones I have known do not care and often they have children of their own.

And as far as CW and his affair. How is he any different than any other man who had an affair? The only didference is that he killed his wife.
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JMO, I don't know how NK is different from other women who have affairs with married men who have children. Years ago, I knew a few who did that (not friends of mine) and without exception, they didn't care who got hurt, just as long as it wasn't them.

As for married men who have affairs, they either reconcile or try to reconcile with their wives, or they get a divorce. CW solution was to murder his pregnant wife and their babies. He's far from the "norm", JMO.
 
human said:
How is NK any different than any other woman who has an affair with a married man with children?

The ones I have known do not care and often they have children of their own.

And as far as CW and his affair. How is he any different than any other man who had an affair? The only didference is that he killed his wife.
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Well, a little more than just killing his wife, but obviously affairs are going on around the world as we speak.

ETA take a look around the bird and mammal world for extra "marital" activities. But we explain all that away as animals trying to spread their genes. Why do we expect humans to be any different, we just put labels on it and feel the angst. ( I am not belittling what we feel about affairs. Someone has fun and may feel some guilt, and deals with it all one way or another if caught. The other person can be devastated. Sometimes murder results.)
 
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I think CW was an insecure coward who lacked empathy and developed an inflated ego after his affair with NK. His affair with NK made him feel he could do anything. He no longer felt like a wimpy dork. He enjoyed being worshipped by her. NK made him feel like he had supernatural powers and could do anything he wanted. He developed intense anger towards SW after NK made him believe he was the "Superman" he always aspired to be.

Chris figured that his family could not exist without HIM because to Chris, everything already was always about HIM. Chris believed his family and SW had NO VALUE of their own so he killed them as if they were disposable.

Red flags:
Lack of empathy
Inflated ego
Narcissistic
Arrogance
Inability to control anger
Impulsivity
  • Note: Not all individuals will be characterized by all of these red flags and not all of them will commit a crime. Plenty of people that have these characteristics are successful and many of them divorce instead of kill. There's no way to predict what causes them to "snap" which is why it's important to pay attention to red flags and get help.
 
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human said:
Although women cheat, the question I have here is a out men.

It seems like 99.999% of the time, men divorce when they have someone else on board. Most people are ordinary and certainly will have financial stress when having to support two households.

Most people are living paycheck to paycheck if studies are accurate.

So how could anyone tell if their SO will be a killer?

CW was not young so he had history of friends and activities. SW thought he was a great father and her parents lived with them for months and apparently did not see anything wrong.

Her brother lived with them as well.

No one saw through the mask.

Plenty of people have unfortunate parents. People have abuse and sexual abuse in their backgrounds. Yet, they are not killers.

What is it?

I saw the red flags list posted and not much stands out to me that wouldn’t fit so many people
Click to expand...

I agree. Listening to the first interrogation tape CW said he personality wise is like SW's dad and SW in her first marriage became like him because her first husband was controlling. He said the marriage didn't work because of that. He said he let SW be herself and never tried to change her (probably one of the reasons she loved him so much). What I'm trying to say is the guy had insight into the dynamics of his and his parents and in laws relationships but all that understanding didn't prevent this horrific event

I hate to say it but it coldheartedly seem it was selfishness and what's been said before he wanted to go on in a new relationship with no baggage. I guess to sum it up annhilators do what they think is best for them and don't care who is in the way
 
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