GUILTY CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *CW LWOP* #72

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Poedelini said:
Aaah thank you, that was still a bit unclear with me. Still i think it is pretty bold to kill 2 kids in the daylight and carry your dead wife to dig her grave in that open area even if it is so remote.
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Iirc he also took time to call or text a few coworkers to see when they would arrive. Also he had some mechanical duties to perform re the leaking valve.
 
Poedelini said:
Aaah thank you, that was still a bit unclear with me. Still i think it is pretty bold to kill 2 kids in the daylight and carry your dead wife to dig her grave in that open area even if it is so remote.
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i don't believe him when he says he took sw out of that backseat before he murdered the kids. Why would he have done that?
 
NuttMegg said:
i don't believe him when he says he took sw out of that backseat before he murdered the kids. Why would he have done that?
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I don't believe her body was recovered with a plastic bag over her head and feet so at some point he must have taken them off. The reason for putting them on was so the kids wouldn't see how purple she looked. Did he just lay her on the ground for a while until he dealt with the kids.

The horror of this is like a sci-ft horror movie. I can't imagine how he could kill those little beings and climb those steps to dump them in oil not only once but twice. He demonstrated he held their arms above their heads and dropped them in.. .. would they even fit with their arms above their heads.?
 
pinkie60 said:
I don't believe her body was recovered with a plastic bag over her head and feet so at some point he must have taken them off. The reason for putting them on was so the kids wouldn't see how purple she looked. Did he just lay her on the ground for a while until he dealt with the kids.

The horror of this is like a sci-ft horror movie. I can't imagine how he could kill those little beings and climb those steps to dump them in oil not only once but twice. He demonstrated he held their arms above their heads and dropped them in.. .. would they even fit with their arms above their heads.?
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Well. IMO it was hard to push her into that narrow space. And then it would be hard to get her out, and if, according to what he says, the girls were still on the seats, what did he do, push them aside as he dragged poor SW out the of narrow space? He would have, at the least, bumped against their little legs, or pushed them against the seat as he took her out.

Besides, it doesn't make any difference re sympathy or empathy (!!) towards him if he took her out first, or last after murdering the kids.

I don't believe it, and I don't know why he said that.

He left SW's body on a dirt pile while he murdered the children, one by one carrying them up the ladders and stuffing them in the 8" holes?

He was parked across the parking lot, by the well head, about as far as possible from the tanks as he could be.
 
I'm considering an opinion that his ultimate plan was to blow up the site. Considering he had the keys to Shananns white Lexus. Maybe he or someone else was going to drive it to the site and put her body in the car. He would claim Shanann went to the site looking for him. The explosion would be so intense an autopsy wouldn't be possible. And he would collect insurance and sue Anadarko. Maybe that's why he dug such a shallow grave so he or someone else could get her out easier
Could be the sheet and rake handle was left as a marker
When he was called home he hurriedly went in Shananns car to put the keys back
Also there were some clothes in a bag in the kitchen he was asked about and gave a story of they were going to be donated. Hmmmm
 
Poedelini said:
Chris said that Shannan was between the seats in the back on the floorboard. She was like 3 or 4 months pregnant, does she even fit between there?
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Yes. When you’re 3/4 months, your stomach hasn’t “popped” so to speak. You will have a little “mound” but not full on basketball bump. More bloated feeling/look and a mound.
 
pinkie60 said:
I'm considering an opinion that his ultimate plan was to blow up the site. Considering he had the keys to Shananns white Lexus. Maybe he or someone else was going to drive it to the site and put her body in the car. He would claim Shanann went to the site looking for him. The explosion would be so intense an autopsy wouldn't be possible. And he would collect insurance and sue Anadarko. Maybe that's why he dug such a shallow grave so he or someone else could get her out easier
Could be the sheet and rake handle was left as a marker
When he was called home he hurriedly went in Shananns car to put the keys back
Also there were some clothes in a bag in the kitchen he was asked about and gave a story of they were going to be donated. Hmmmm
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I agree something fishy is going on. I also find it super convinient that NK could watch the oil meters (i don't know how to call it).

NuttMegg said:
What do you mean? Not following, what steps means.
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His Iphone recorded a big spike of steps that night specially between 8 and 9 pm on the 12th.
 
NuttMegg said:
Well. IMO it was hard to push her into that narrow space. And then it would be hard to get her out, and if, according to what he says, the girls were still on the seats, what did he do, push them aside as he dragged poor SW out the of narrow space? He would have, at the least, bumped against their little legs, or pushed them against the seat as he took her out.

Besides, it doesn't make any difference re sympathy or empathy (!!) towards him if he took her out first, or last after murdering the kids.

I don't believe it, and I don't know why he said that.

He left SW's body on a dirt pile while he murdered the children, one by one carrying them up the ladders and stuffing them in the 8" holes?

He was parked across the parking lot, by the well head, about as far as possible from the tanks as he could be.
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Gosh maybe he had them get out of the car first before he took Shanann out?? Told them to wait. He must have had a lot of adrenaline flowing. He had to hurry up and get done before the crew came
 
pinkie60 said:
I'm considering an opinion that his ultimate plan was to blow up the site. Considering he had the keys to Shananns white Lexus. Maybe he or someone else was going to drive it to the site and put her body in the car. He would claim Shanann went to the site looking for him. The explosion would be so intense an autopsy wouldn't be possible. And he would collect insurance and sue Anadarko. Maybe that's why he dug such a shallow grave so he or someone else could get her out easier
Could be the sheet and rake handle was left as a marker
When he was called home he hurriedly went in Shananns car to put the keys back
Also there were some clothes in a bag in the kitchen he was asked about and gave a story of they were going to be donated. Hmmmm
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It would be one helluva coincidence for an explosion at the site to happen just when Shanann showed up with Bella and Celeste, especially when there really wouldn't have been a good reason for them being there. Wouldn't it just make him look even more suspicious?

But then we've got to remember how stupid and greedy CW was. After all, he thought that if he was the one who wanted to end his marriage, people wouldn't suspect him after his family went 'missing', since it was his 'spiteful' wife who had everything to lose.

We also know part of his motivation was money from his desire to quickly cash in on the house, and maybe to collect Shanann's Thrive commissions. Of course that would be chump change compared to a big settlement from Anadarko for their negligence in not fixing the leak. But lawsuits take time, so the house proceeds and commissions could have just been to tide him over until his big payout.
MOO
 
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NuttMegg said:
CW made it sound like he was there in Dodge for the duration, but many stories going around about his imminent switch to a rougher place. Although maybe Dodge does serve as a receiving place for evaluations and moving on would not be unusual.

If there is such a thing as "maximum maximum security". I thought there are a few in the US, which is where terrorists go.
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There is the supermax in Colorado, known as the Alcatraz of the Rockies. Prisoners are literally cut off from the rest of the world and the most violent of criminals go there.

Is it possible for anyone to be more violent than CW? He murdered his own babies.
 
DaisyKenny said:
It would be one helluva coincidence for an explosion at the site to happen just when Shanann showed up with Bella and Celeste, especially when there really wouldn't have been a good reason for them being there. Wouldn't it just make him look even more suspicious?

But then we've got to remember how stupid and greedy CW was. After all, he thought that if he was the one who wanted to end his marriage, people wouldn't suspect him after his family went 'missing', since it was his 'spiteful' wife who had everything to lose.

We also know part of his motivation was money from his desire to quickly cash in on the house, and maybe to collect Shanann's Thrive commissions. Of course that would be chump change compared to a big settlement from Anadarko for their negligence in not fixing the leak. But lawsuits take time, so the house proceeds and commissions could have just been to tide him over until his big payout.
MOO
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I'm not on board with the "tank explosion at the time SW was supposed to appear with her kids" theory. I'm not so sure it's possible to rig an explosion at exactly the right time without a sophisticated setup. That site "criminal minds" has a good video regarding how a different tank battery really did blow up, where the gases were escaping, how welding was going on right where the gases were accidentally coming out, very interesting with the physics of oil/gas explosions explained. And the role of water.

But what was he going to do with that Jerry jug of gas? I think he only alluded to suicide because Tammy put that idea in his mind. He didn't bring it up, and brushed it off by saying he didn't want to hurt people (!!)

How was SW supposed to open the gate, and drive in with the kids at exactly the right time? If she were looking for some confrontation with CW, why bring the kids along? Weren't those gates locked? Could a low slung car like the Lexus be driven on those gravel and dirt roads without trouble?

Anyway I have personally discarded that theory of the explosion erasing all forensic evidence of SW (inside of a car, no less, like the burned chassis would disappear?). And to get insurance money or sue the oil company, it sounded a bit disjointed in motive, and in the particulars.

But I am open minded about accomplices, so far I don't see any good explanation for that gray car or small pickup that was parked in such a weird place and just so happened to leave when CW was pulling his truck into the driveway.

Also would like to hear more about the 111 minute call with the mistress right before the murders, and why the dogs reacted so strongly in the corner of the basement.
 
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gitana1 said:
I don't think there was traffic at 5:30 am. Traffic in my city, which is dense, starts around 6:30-7.

Most of his drive was rural and sparsely populated I believe. He was unlikely to be pulled over or see too many people at all:

The Drive to CERVI 319 [in PICTURES & VIDEO]
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I drove down that road once around 2:00 in the afternoon and saw three trucks and two cars the whole time. It’s a road through the boondocks connecting the middle of nowhere to God-knows-where. I doubt LE patrols it at all. At 5:30 am CE may have been the only car on the road and was familiar enough w/the drive to know once he left Frederick he shouldn’t need to worry about LE. Yet he was still cautious—assuming he didn’t stop along the way his driving time suggests he wasn’t speeding excessively.
 
pinkie60 said:
Another strange coincidence. A few days before the murders, everytime CW and NK were done with their phone call, NK placed a call to Jim. I wonder what that was all about
I think NK was two-timing. Wouldn't surprise me at all
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I saw that too on a site. Was that verified, ie the phone numbers and time she made those calls, each time right after she talked to CW? So she was in touch with the friend the weekend before the murders too, he didn't just show up at 3:45 on Monday afternoon out of a clear blue sky? Although maybe we should call him "the friend" or something else, not use his name.
 
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cakegirl0905 said:
I’m listening to the latest tapes right now and I find his affect/behavior so odd.

He talks about killing Shannan like it was a trip to the grocery store. No emotion, just factual and casual even. Like “I did this, I did that, she did that, yeah, whatever. No biggie”. It’s truly bizarre. And how much he kept saying “I don’t know” “I don’t remember” “something like that”, he’s VERY noncommittal about what happened. Why is that? He can’t be charged any further. Why is he lying or not being forthcoming?

He does have a fair amount of emotion when talking about the girls and what he did. But then, it goes away rather quickly and by the end of the first tape is chatting away about food and jobs like it’s just a normal day and he’s hanging out with friends. The emotion is so fleeting. I think he’s happy as a clam in prison. It’s weird.

Listening through, I think nutgate was a huge instigator for this. I think that’s when he decided he would do it. I think NK, money, and his relationships with his family were the motives and nutgate was such a huge ordeal that’s when he decided he was done with Shannan and wanted a new start.
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CW is not a normal human being I don’t think he has a conscience or the ability to love anyone but himself. It is all an act he is trying to deflect what he did.
 
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