GUILTY CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *CW LWOP* #72

[NuttMegg]

IMO, that was possibly the most incriminating thing CW has revealed about NK so far, and they didn't even pick up on it. It makes me wonder what else they (LE) could have overlooked.

Was that Monday night? Maybe her buddy was there and telling her what to do.

 

[pocketaccent]

NK he knew for a fact that Shanann did not have his phone. Shanann was missing and NK had communicated with him by his phone after Shanann and the girls "disappeared".

JMO, it's clear she was concerned LE had his phone, and why would she be so concerned if she really thought Shanann took the girls and left on her own accord?

In her first interview with the FBI, she was standing up for CW. It wasn't until the CBI got hold of her that she started back-tracking on that.

I would not be surprised at all if I learned NK knew beforehand that CW was going to annihilate the family.
The photo of a field of wildflowers he sent to her after disposal of bodies is chilling. I think he was reporting to her that the job was completed.

All of CW's lying explanations of anything regarding NK, I believe, are mostly to protect him. He is still claiming he did not premeditate the murder. So it is imperative that he lets it known NK did not know in advance. Because if she did know in advance, it is a definite proof that he premeditated. So he is actually protecting himself rather than protecting NK. He is a selfish self-seeking monster.

 

[DaisyKenny]

Was that Monday night? Maybe her buddy was there and telling her what to do.

CW said it was Tuesday morning that NK told him to delete everything.

 

[NuttMegg]

Because I think he had cops, dogs, media - you name it, all over his house at the time.

Oh. I had the idea it was at night, but am a little foggy on her goings on. I remember that one CBI interview with her abruptly cut off after Monday night, I don't know if I ever heard anything from her on Tuesday or Wednesday, regarding what she was up to, and what she told the cops she was up to.

 

[molly1255]

Was that Monday night? Maybe her buddy was there and telling her what to do.

I think that it was on Tuesday.

 

[NuttMegg]

CW said it was Tuesday morning that NK told him to delete everything.

I don't think she ever told the cops that she had told him that, correct? She just told them that she deleted her own stuff. And then moaned and groaned and pretended she didn't have a clue as to why the texts were disjointed afterwards, not making sense.

ETA now I remember I did hear her later interviews, but they were read, masterfully, by mommyramblings IIRC.

 

[Poedelini]

Oh. I had the idea it was at night, but am a little foggy on her goings on. I remember that one CBI interview with her abruptly cut off after Monday night, I don't know if I ever heard anything from her on Tuesday or Wednesday, regarding what she was up to, and what she told the cops she was up to.

I saw most of the texts she sended to the investigator and she kept a close eye on it, she was multiple times curious how far they where with the case. Also very weird.

 

[pocketaccent]

One thing for sure. NK knew Shanann was never coming back. On Monday, she told CW to pawn Shanann's wedding ring. She knew.

 

[pocketaccent]

CW said it was Tuesday morning that NK told him to delete everything.

If I was dating a married man and he killed his family and I was innocent of knowledge, I would put all my energy into saving and double saving all of communications between the killer and me- to prove my innocence. NK did the exact opposite.

 

[nanwv]

KESSINGER told him it was the last time he would hear from her and she was going to stay with her friend, JIM.

I thought her friend "Jim" was visiting her and lived in Milwaukee? NK was not fired when she said this, so where was she going to "stay"?

If any of this is true.

Which is why this story will never go away. And NK will live to ripe old age in everyones cross hairs, waiting for a sighting/news/update.

I'm kind of liking the blowup conspiracy plan-makes more sense than what we have been left with-the CW Lie Show.

 

[Colorado303]

Agree. For someone that LE has apparently completely dismissed, they certainly asked him a lot of questions about NK during that interview. Those questions occurred at multiple times during the interview and several questions were very direct.

If they had the answers, why would they waste their time asking?

They also asked him why the basement door was opened at 4:26 a.m. and that he had a lot of steps around that time. Very good question, and he claimed he couldn't remember. But he certainly remembers his cottage cheese that morning.

At this point, I'd actually feel a little more comfortable about NK if she was out there trying to sell her story and was stating she had nothing to do with it. We do know she was interested in possibly monetizing her story because she googled Amber Frey's book deal and her net worth.

Perhaps NK was feeling more full of herself in the early days of this case when she performed those google searches and thought LE bought everything she said hook, line and sinker because they were treating her like a victim.

JMO, it doesn't appear she has a book in the works. Why not? Is it because she's suddenly decided to become a decent person? IMO, she wasn't a decent person when she was interviewed by the Denver Post. She was full of lies.

JMO, I think she told LE lies they could not prove because they lacked evidence. JMO, she's afraid to publish anything for fear it will bite her in the rear-end with LE. I don't think she knows whether LE was able to retrieve all of her deleted text messages, though she was certainly questioning the CBI Agent whether they were able to retrieve them and he wouldn't tell her.

As far as I know, LE has never made an announcement about whether they recovered those text messages. I'm sure they've had many inquiries about this. I think that's very interesting and NK has literally dropped off the face of the earth and it's way more than a low profile.

All JMO

Just like you, I never thought NK might have been involved w/the actual crime (and/or aftermath) until LE went to interview CW in WI. I believe they learned something after the sentencing hearing that made them re-think her possible involvement. Some of the questions they asked CW make no sense unless covering that base was at least one of the reasons for their interview.

It’s my understanding that CW didn’t ask to talk w/CO LE again, they just showed up. If they were there strictly to get more insight into his twisted mind I would think a profiler would have made the trip along w/the LE member who’d established the “best relationship” w/CW up to that point.

The timing of the interview, the fact it was instigated by LE not CW, the participants involved and the questions they asked are more consistent w/an active investigation IMO.

The DA said in the post-sentencing press conference he didn’t believe NK was involved in the crime. I recall thinking at the time the words he used left a little bit of wiggle room but chalked that up to his general distain for NK as a person. IMO they didn’t believe she had been forthcoming in her interviews but what she was hiding was the pressure she put on CW to leave his family rather than anything illegal. Something must have turned up after the 11/6 sentencing hearing to make them wonder.

Like what? Could be:

1). Nothing more than KK’s involvement in the Berreth case. Questions may have been raised as to whether CW also had an accomplice. LE may not believe he did but felt for optics they needed to cover that base.

2). Someone NK knows stepped forward to provide information

3). CW said something to family or other inmates suggesting NK’s involvement

4). Electronic evidence (retrieved text messages, etc.) imolicating NK didn’t arrive until after the sentencing.

5). Pressure to respond to analysis by amateur sleuthers of the neighbors security video showing CW loading his truck the night of his murders. In addition to a child’s shadow approaching the truck, questions were raised about interior cab lights going on and off at weird times (which some suggest indicate a second person was in the truck).

I think words that come out of CW’s mouth have zero evidentaty value. But I distinctly see the child’s shadow and that alone makes me believe CW wasn’t lying about taking the girls to Cervi alive. Inside the truck I also see what may be manual interior lights and/or a cell phone when CW was away from the vehicle. But they could be any number of things.

Some say there’s one point where an individual with a pony-tail is walking to or from the truck. I haven’t seen that so if anyone has and has a link please post it if you can.

I know many WSers think it’s farfetched to believe NK was at the house during and/or after the murders. Frankly I don’t believe it either, but I also never would have believed the girls left that house alive. CW is in prison for the rest of his life. I said before I’m done trying to figure out his lies from the truth.

But if someone else was involved in the crime or cover up, no way should they get away with it. So I allowed myself to play a game of “what if”. What if NK was involved? Is there any scenario that would be consistent w/the evidence we have? I think the answer could be yes.

Pure speculation but I believe while SW was in NC, CW snuck NK into his house by having her hide in the Lexus as he drove into the garage. This is based only on what I know others who’ve had affairs have done when the spouse is away. Sneaking into and out of houses is par for the course for cheaters. So the fact we haven’t seen proof NK was at the house doesn’t mean she wasn’t there.

I don’t think there’s any evidence CW drove the Lexus without the girls on Sunday, so IF NK was in the house she must have gotten in unseen another way. When SW first was reported missing, CW was quick to suggest perhaps she had left from the backyard where cameras wouldn’t see her. When it comes to thinking on his feet CW is the opposite of nimble. Entirely possible he came up with that because NK had entered/left that way.

IF NK snuck in through the back after their 111 minute phone call she could have left the same way, walked around the block and gotten into his truck before it was on camera, and stayed in the truck as he loaded it up. Then he could have driven to her car hidden somewhere nearby and she could have followed him to Cervi or simply gone home.

IF she went to the house that night I highly doubt it was to kill anyone, but I can see a scenario where she told CW she had had it with him and his family during that 111 min phone call. In deperarion to keep her he told her to come over so they could talk in person. Plan would be to sneak in the back and when SW got home hang out in the basement where SW wouldn’t see her. CW would go greet SW and when she went to sleep go back downstairs where he had been sleeping lately anyway.

IF NK was in the basement perhaps SW discovered them there and was killed in the basement (which would explain the cadaver dog hit). Or maybe NK had had enough and decided to confront SW. More likely NK was waiting patiently downstairs when CW decided all on his own to strangle SW.

So now there’s a dead body that has to be dealt with. NK is already there and probably freaked out. So she helps CW try to cover it up.

Yes, it sounds crazy but not any crazier than loading your live kids and their dead mother into a truck, driving to an oil field before killing them then stuffing their little dead bodies into two different oil tanks.

One thing we know for sure —CW wanted to protect NK. He was so obsessed that even during interrogation he couldn’t stop talking about how wonderful she made him feel. And he seemed more upset about her being dragged into the investigation than he was that his kids were dead or he might go to prison.

IMO If NK was in that house he would never admit it. he would readily tell whatever lies he could think of to deflect attention away from her. In his warped mind protecting the love of his life would be the noble thing to do. And on the off chance he has an iota of conscience, he has to rationalize she was worth it or else he killed his little girls and wound up in prison for nothing.

IF NK was there that night, there would have been plenty of evidence to prove it. Traffic cams of her car, fingerprint evidence, dna in the basement etc. But since CW was so clearly culpable LE may not have looked for it. If not, I hope they’re looking now and there’s enough left that IF NK helped cover up evidence they nail her to the wall. I’m sure she’d get her share of fan mail in prison too.

 

[DaisyKenny]

I thought her friend "Jim" was visiting her and lived in Milwaukee? NK was not fired when she said this, so where was she going to "stay"?

If any of this is true.

Which is why this story will never go away. And NK will live to ripe old age in everyones cross hairs, waiting for a sighting/news/update.

I'm kind of liking the blowup conspiracy plan-makes more sense than what we have been left with-the CW Lie Show.

I just copied the part about her staying with Jim from the transcript. IMO, NK is as big a liar as CW, so idk where she was going to stay.

As for the blowup conspiracy, most of us agree CW did some preplanning. Clearly he originally planned to get rid of their stuff and the Lexus, otherwise LE would have zeroed right in on the worksite, which is exactly what happened, thanks to NUA. That leaves either abandoning/destroying the Lexus at some unknown location or blowing up CERVI 319 after dropping off the Lexus.

It sounds plausible that CW could have driven the Lexus to the worksite on the Friday, created the leak and then dug the grave beforehand. It's also quite a big coincidence that it was part of NK's job to monitor the leaks and that CW just happened to be with his boss when his boss was told about the leak. There was also an explosion nearby that happened the year before, which NK and CW were well aware of.

Personally I haven't spent much time on the blowup theory, but that's just the beginning of all the coincidences. There are a number of videos that go into depth on this theory.
MOO

 

[Seenit]

JMO, I do think it is very strange that he would say this, but it just doesn't ring true to me. It's possible, IMO, that he thought saying this might be to someone else's advantage. The more I read and analyze things in this case, the more open I become to the possibility he may have had some help.

He wasn't rushing about as he loaded up his truck that morning. He took his time and that's bizarre because the longer he took to load things up, the more risk he ran of having a neighbor walk by or drive by and see something.

If he had two live kids under foot inside the house, how was he keeping them under control as he hauled their mother and other things out to the truck? The things that were happening that morning were way, way outside the girls' normal routine. They were expecting to see Shanann in the morning and now she's wrapped in a sheet, not moving or speaking and their Dad is moving her around. I just have a hard time buying that they would have been quiet, or that he would have had the expectation they would be quiet. They were known to scream hysterically when Shanann was out of their sight.

He intended to get away with this. I'm sure he was cognizant of the fact that he had a very tight time frame in which to accomplish a whole lot of things out at Cervi before his co-workers arrived. I can't imagine why he'd add murdering his kids out there, in daylight, to that list when he could have killed them at home, behind closed doors.

All JMO.

Maybe in his lunatic mind, he thinks it sounds worse to have admitted he killed the girls at home and then put them in the refrigerator.......?

 

[pinkie60]

i have a really wild idea. Finally daring to put it out there. What if NK was hired to romance CW to get him to do what he did

Say they wanted to blow up an oilfield for insurance money and they needed someone like Watts What if she did put him under some kind of mind control or hypnosis

I bet one of the code words was battery That's the song he was looking up for her (so he said).

 

[Seenit]

i have a really wild idea. Finally daring to put it out there. What if NK was hired to romance CW to get him to do what he did

Say they wanted to blow up an oilfield for insurance money and they needed someone like Watts What if she did put him under some kind of mind control or hypnosis

I bet one of the code words was battery That's the song he was looking up for her (so he said).

I never would have even entertained that idea until I saw a few YouTube videos on it and then it started to seem plausible, too.

 

[cakegirl0905]

The only reason he's lying is to coverup for someone

While I 100% agree with this, WHY would he still cover for her? He was caught, she gets to live a carefree life? Why wouldn’t this anger him and make him vindictively tell the truth to get her in trouble? What does she still have over him (love struck wise or information wise) to make him still cover for her involvement? If it was me, I’d be so angry I’d spill the beans.
Maybe he’s stupid enough to think he’ll get out and they’ll ride off into the sunset?

 

[Colorado303]

While I 100% agree with this, WHY would he still cover for her? He was caught, she gets to live a carefree life? Why wouldn’t this anger him and make him vindictively tell the truth to get her in trouble? What does she still have over him (love struck wise or information wise) to make him still cover for her involvement? If it was me, I’d be so angry I’d spill the beans.
Maybe he’s stupid enough to think he’ll get out and they’ll ride off into the sunset?

IMO he is that stupid. Or thinks she’ll make conjugal visits.

 

[molly1255]

IMO he is that stupid. Or thinks she’ll make conjugal visits.

Found this online and it makes ME feel better! It looks like his heterosexual sex life is a thing of the past:

Only four states currently allow conjugal visits, otherwise known as extended family visits, and they don't exist in the federal prison system. The states are California,Connecticut, New York, and Washington. Conjugal visits can only happen in medium- or lesser-security prisons.

 

[MellowMonday]

It sounds plausible that CW could have driven the Lexus to the worksite on the Friday, created the leak and then dug the grave beforehand. It's also quite a big coincidence that it was part of NK's job to monitor the leaks and that CW just happened to be with his boss when his boss was told about the leak. There was also an explosion nearby that happened the year before, which NK and CW were well aware of.

MOO

RSBM and BBM
If NK monitored the tanks for leaks, could she also be able to control pressure build-up/release pressure in the tanks from the office? Maybe her statement of not contacting her until this is all over was her referring to her setting the tanks up to pressure-blow. Can oil tanks like these build up pressure? But then NUA insisted CW come to his home and meet the police throwing everything off for NK to remotely set things off? Do we know if CW called NK on his way to meeting NUA and the police?

 

[molly1255]

Just like you, I never thought NK might have been involved w/the actual crime (and/or aftermath) until LE went to interview CW in WI. I believe they learned something after the sentencing hearing that made them re-think her possible involvement. Some of the questions they asked CW make no sense unless covering that base was at least one of the reasons for their interview.

It’s my understanding that CW didn’t ask to talk w/CO LE again, they just showed up. If they were there strictly to get more insight into his twisted mind I would think a profiler would have made the trip along w/the LE member who’d established the “best relationship” w/CW up to that point.

The timing of the interview, the fact it was instigated by LE not CW, the participants involved and the questions they asked are more consistent w/an active investigation IMO.

The DA said in the post-sentencing press conference he didn’t believe NK was involved in the crime. I recall thinking at the time the words he used left a little bit of wiggle room but chalked that up to his general distain for NK as a person. IMO they didn’t believe she had been forthcoming in her interviews but what she was hiding was the pressure she put on CW to leave his family rather than anything illegal. Something must have turned up after the 11/6 sentencing hearing to make them wonder.

Like what? Could be:

1). Nothing more than KK’s involvement in the Berreth case. Questions may have been raised as to whether CW also had an accomplice. LE may not believe he did but felt for optics they needed to cover that base.

2). Someone NK knows stepped forward to provide information

3). CW said something to family or other inmates suggesting NK’s involvement

4). Electronic evidence (retrieved text messages, etc.) imolicating NK didn’t arrive until after the sentencing.

5). Pressure to respond to analysis by amateur sleuthers of the neighbors security video showing CW loading his truck the night of his murders. In addition to a child’s shadow approaching the truck, questions were raised about interior cab lights going on and off at weird times (which some suggest indicate a second person was in the truck).

I think words that come out of CW’s mouth have zero evidentaty value. But I distinctly see the child’s shadow and that alone makes me believe CW wasn’t lying about taking the girls to Cervi alive. Inside the truck I also see what may be manual interior lights and/or a cell phone when CW was away from the vehicle. But they could be any number of things.

Some say there’s one point where an individual with a pony-tail is walking to or from the truck. I haven’t seen that so if anyone has and has a link please post it if you can.

I know many WSers think it’s farfetched to believe NK was at the house during and/or after the murders. Frankly I don’t believe it either, but I also never would have believed the girls left that house alive. CW is in prison for the rest of his life. I said before I’m done trying to figure out his lies from the truth.

But if someone else was involved in the crime or cover up, no way should they get away with it. So I allowed myself to play a game of “what if”. What if NK was involved? Is there any scenario that would be consistent w/the evidence we have? I think the answer could be yes.

Pure speculation but I believe while SW was in NC, CW snuck NK into his house by having her hide in the Lexus as he drove into the garage. This is based only on what I know others who’ve had affairs have done when the spouse is away. Sneaking into and out of houses is par for the course for cheaters. So the fact we haven’t seen proof NK was at the house doesn’t mean she wasn’t there.

I don’t think there’s any evidence CW drove the Lexus without the girls on Sunday, so IF NK was in the house she must have gotten in unseen another way. When SW first was reported missing, CW was quick to suggest perhaps she had left from the backyard where cameras wouldn’t see her. When it comes to thinking on his feet CW is the opposite of nimble. Entirely possible he came up with that because NK had entered/left that way.

IF NK snuck in through the back after their 111 minute phone call she could have left the same way, walked around the block and gotten into his truck before it was on camera, and stayed in the truck as he loaded it up. Then he could have driven to her car hidden somewhere nearby and she could have followed him to Cervi or simply gone home.

IF she went to the house that night I highly doubt it was to kill anyone, but I can see a scenario where she told CW she had had it with him and his family during that 111 min phone call. In deperarion to keep her he told her to come over so they could talk in person. Plan would be to sneak in the back and when SW got home hang out in the basement where SW wouldn’t see her. CW would go greet SW and when she went to sleep go back downstairs where he had been sleeping lately anyway.

IF NK was in the basement perhaps SW discovered them there and was killed in the basement (which would explain the cadaver dog hit). Or maybe NK had had enough and decided to confront SW. More likely NK was waiting patiently downstairs when CW decided all on his own to strangle SW.

So now there’s a dead body that has to be dealt with. NK is already there and probably freaked out. So she helps CW try to cover it up.

Yes, it sounds crazy but not any crazier than loading your live kids and their dead mother into a truck, driving to an oil field before killing them then stuffing their little dead bodies into two different oil tanks.

One thing we know for sure —CW wanted to protect NK. He was so obsessed that even during interrogation he couldn’t stop talking about how wonderful she made him feel. And he seemed more upset about her being dragged into the investigation than he was that his kids were dead or he might go to prison.

IMO If NK was in that house he would never admit it. he would readily tell whatever lies he could think of to deflect attention away from her. In his warped mind protecting the love of his life would be the noble thing to do. And on the off chance he has an iota of conscience, he has to rationalize she was worth it or else he killed his little girls and wound up in prison for nothing.

IF NK was there that night, there would have been plenty of evidence to prove it. Traffic cams of her car, fingerprint evidence, dna in the basement etc. But since CW was so clearly culpable LE may not have looked for it. If not, I hope they’re looking now and there’s enough left that IF NK helped cover up evidence they nail her to the wall. I’m sure she’d get her share of fan mail in prison too.

You bring up some very interesting points.

NK came out the shoot with lies to the FBI and she continued lying to the CBI, and she was called on the lies they could prove. I cannot imagine that LE had a good feeling about her because of her lies, and because she deleted the text messages, but they didn't have evidence she encouraged him to kill his family, that she knew he was going to kill his family or that she helped him do it, IMO.

Imagine the reaction of the DA and investigators when her Denver Post interview was published. My guess is their mouths were hanging open. JMO, I highly doubt she asked them if it was ok to do an interview, especially right before the sentencing hearing, or that she even bothered to tell them she was doing it. To top it off, her interview was full of complete lies. That's way more than chuzpah, IMO. That's a red flag, IMO.

I agree the kind of questions LE was asking CW in the prison interview regarding NK resemble the kind of questions that would be asked in an open investigation. I'm not so sure that LE's book on NK is closed.

JMO