GUILTY CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *CW LWOP* #72

[molly1255]

IIRC Tammy asked him about rumors or conjecture that NK was in the basement, ie what would he say to that? He changed the subject.

Agree. And If the investigators knew everything they needed to know about NK and were comfortable that she wasn't involved at all, why would LE also ask CW (same prison interview) a lot of questions about her, including:

Asked CW if NK told him to delete everything (CW confirmed she did).

Asked CW if NK asked him to get rid of his family.

Asked if NK put it in his head to get rid of his family.

Later on in the interview Coder again asked CW if NK asked him to get rid of his family. CW said no and Coder asked "are you sure?".

To me, when you ask someone "are you sure" after they answer a question, you are questioning whether they are telling you the truth because you don't believe them. JMO.

 

[NuttMegg]

I'm sorry I ever said anything critical about Reisch's podcasts, this is a very good one, full of legal insights. About pre-meditation, having victim photos in cell, etc. He is refocusing his crime talk YT site on "Ask Scott", ie about various cases.

 

[molly1255]

Scott Reisch is discussing her right now in a live broadcast, no statute of limitations for her, inconsistencies with phone, etc. Was she lying, was she nervous. There is a crime "attempted influence of public official", but tougher to prove in Colorado. If fed case could be worse for her, lying to feds. RE Martha Stewart, etc, lying to feds.

JMO, I can't imagine lying to LE about anything, but to deliberately lie to the FBI? That's very serious stuff and JMO, she did it with impunity.

 

[NuttMegg]

JMO, I can't imagine lying to LE about anything, but to deliberately lie to the FBI? That's very serious stuff and JMO, she did it with impunity.

I lost track of the people who interviewed her, did she actually ever speak to Coder or anyone from the FBI? Not that she didn't, just that mostly I listened to her interviews and didn't pay any attention to the interviewer.

 

[La Louve]

Lately I've been pondering that the post sentencing interviews may have been done to get information that could catch NK in a lie that would indicate she had more involvement beyond the affair with CW.

The problem is how does LE figure out the truth when listening to two liars telling their stories.

It's a headscratcher for sure.

 

[molly1255]

I lost track of the people who interviewed her, did she actually ever speak to Coder or anyone from the FBI? Not that she didn't, just that mostly I listened to her interviews and didn't pay any attention to the interviewer.

Her first interview was with the FBI on Wednesday and was conducted in a park. There is a lot of background noise because they are outside, and the FBI agent is sometimes hard to hear, but NK comes through loud and clear in her responses.

I've read that her father was with her during the FBI interview in the park, but her father doesn't speak during this interview.

Her interviews after that were with the CBI.

 

[pocketaccent]

I listed to this interview several times and there were a lot of questions about NK. Examples of a few that were very direct, IMO:

* Did she tell you to delete everything? Note - CW confirmed she did.
* Did she ask you go get rid of your family?
* Did she put it in your head (getting rid of his family)?

Coder later asked him again if NK asked him to get rid of his family. Coder responded "are you sure?".

These questions and especially the "are you sure?" made me think that LE wasn't 100% positive about NK.

JMO

Yup, they sure were real curious about NK. They also asked him aboout NK being bipolar and if they ever fought and what was the fight like, and on and on about NK.

I could feel their ears perking up whenever CW talked about NK.

 

[PommyMommy]

Scott Reisch is discussing her right now in a live broadcast, no statute of limitations for her, inconsistencies with phone, etc. Was she lying, was she nervous. There is a crime "attempted influence of public official", but tougher to prove in Colorado. If fed case could be worse for her, lying to feds. RE Martha Stewart, etc, lying to feds.

BBM

This, I could believe. Her involvement in the murders or cover-up, no. MOO

 

[Gardenista]

Scott is always interesting although occasionally he gets a few details wrong.

Wow, he has a PI looking for NK.

 

[DaisyKenny]

i have a really wild idea. Finally daring to put it out there. What if NK was hired to romance CW to get him to do what he did

Say they wanted to blow up an oilfield for insurance money and they needed someone like Watts What if she did put him under some kind of mind control or hypnosis

I bet one of the code words was battery That's the song he was looking up for her (so he said).

I don't think it would be an insurance claim but rather a lawsuit with an out of court settlement. In 2017 there were two Anadarko tank battery explosions that happened in April and May in Weld County. Anadarko settled with the victims' families for undisclosed amounts.
Anadarko reaches settlement with families of victims, survivors of Firestone house explosion
Regarding CERVI 319, it was determined by several Anadarko employees that the by-pass line leak could not be fixed that morning. So if an explosion had happened after that, Anadarko would be in a lot of trouble. It could mean a much larger settlement if they were shown to be grossly negligent, compared to just an accidental death.

I believe CW is evil and greedy enough to try this. My biggest problem with the theory is trying to explain why Shanann and the girls would even be there, and the huge coincidence of the explosion happening right then. I guess he could have said she was out looking for him after their argument, but that would put a lot of suspicion on him.
MOO

 

[gitana1]

Agree. And If the investigators knew everything they needed to know about NK and were comfortable that she wasn't involved at all, why would LE also ask CW (same prison interview) a lot of questions about her, including:

Asked CW if NK told him to delete everything (CW confirmed she did).

Asked CW if NK asked him to get rid of his family.

Asked if NK put it in his head to get rid of his family.

Later on in the interview Coder again asked CW if NK asked him to get rid of his family. CW said no and Coder asked "are you sure?".

To me, when you ask someone "are you sure" after they answer a question, you are questioning whether they are telling you the truth because you don't believe them. JMO.

For me it's simple: They are extremely interested in the psychology behind a seemingly normal family man who appeared to be a devoted and hands-on, good father, murdering his entire family.

They profile. They are interested in all info that will help with that in the future.

NK is a creep. I think she petulantly and maybe even aggressively expressed her displeasure many times to CW that he had a family already. I think she demanded to be number one, let him know that and he felt panic at the thought of her ending the relationship over it, which could have happened.

I think she lied a lot to LE. She well knew about the pregnancy.

I find her malignant.

But I also worry about sort of the need to find a woman somehow responsible for what I firmly believe CW thought up and executed all on his own.

IMO, LE isn't going to prosecute NK for any lies. And there's no evidence of her actual involvement in the crime.

 

[MsBetsy]

BBM

This, I could believe. Her involvement in the murders or cover-up, no. MOO

Yes, I think she lied because she was embarrassed and ashamed for having an affair with a married man with children.
Like Watts claimed his sister said, she was trying to "save face."
She knew exactly what people would think of her in light of happened. Not only did she make a decision to get involved with a married man, she picked a man who turned out to be a monster who killed his family.
I'm sure investigators were angry and disgusted with her for attempting to hide important evidence.
But in the end the information she provided was valuable to the investigation. Imo

 

[molly1255]

For me it's simple: They are extremely interested in the psychology behind a seemingly normal family man who appeared to be a devoted and hands-on, good father, murdering his entire family.

They profile. They are interested in all info that will help with that in the future.

NK is a creep. I think she petulantly and maybe even aggressively expressed her displeasure many times to CW that he had a family already. I think she demanded to be number one, let him know that and he felt panic at the thought of her ending the relationship over it, which could have happened.

I think she lied a lot to LE. She well knew about the pregnancy.

I find her malignant.

But I also worry about sort of the need to find a woman somehow responsible for what I firmly believe CW thought up and executed all on his own.

IMO, LE isn't going to prosecute NK for any lies. And there's no evidence of her actual involvement in the crime.

We sometimes see a tendency to want to find a woman responsible for things that men do. This is not at all the case for me with NK. I'm very bothered by her lies to LE and I would feel a lot better about her if we knew whether LE was able to recover all of her deleted text messages.

JMO

 

[gitana1]

We sometimes see a tendency to want to find a woman responsible for things that men do. This is not at all the case for me with NK. I'm very bothered by her lies to LE and I would feel a lot better about her if we knew whether LE was able to recover all of her deleted text messages.

JMO

But I think there's pretty clear reasons for her lies. She googled whether people hated Amber Frey. She was worried about her reputation. And I think she knew she was the trigger for his murder. She knew she had thrown tantrums about his kids and marital status.

The absence of evidence in this case doesn't point to her possible involvement. Nothing suggests she helped murder the family or covered anything directly related to the murders after.

She did tamper with evidence, however, by deleting the stuff on her phone and asking CW and her friend to do so, after she learned the family was missing. I don't think it's related at all to her direct, actual involvement in the killings but it did go to CW's motive I believe. She didn't want anyone to know she was the trigger or what a horrid person she is.

But they didn't charge her for that. And they didn't go after her for lying. And they won't, IMO.

From what I've seen in the past when LE/DA feels a person is guilty of a violenr crime they can't prove, they'll go after them for what they can like tampering, perjury, obstruction, drug dealing (Haleigh Cummings case).

They haven't done that here.

And they could have for tampering. But in my opinion the reason they don't is because they don't believe she is more involved and they don't want to alienate future potential witnesses. They want to encourage cooperation with law-enforcement rather than discouraging it by going after even abhorrent witnesses.

 

[Steelhead]

The obsession with NK is strange IMO.

I think If NK had anything to do with the planning and carrying out of the murders then we would know about it. LE would have taken some kind of action against her. But that hasn’t happened.

I’ve never had an affair with a married man. But if I had, and his family suddenly disappeared, I too would absolutely have deleted anything and everything that had to do with our relationship. Before joining Websleuths I was clueless about the justice system and I wouldn’t have given it a moment’s thought as to what I SHOULD be doing to be an upstanding witness. That would be the furthest thing from my mind. My immediate reaction would be to save any embarrassment and scrutiny that I could muster. Sure, LE would have been pissed at me for deleting things, but that doesn’t mean I was conspirator or accomplice to murder for goodness sakes!

If anything, I see NK as another victim of CW. He spewed lie after lie to her, too.

 

[cakegirl0905]

Yes, I think she lied because she was embarrassed and ashamed for having an affair with a married man with children. Imo

Respectfully, no. NK wasn’t embarrassed or ashamed of this AT ALL. She only cared about the legal implications and public opinion - morality of having an affair with a married man? No way did she care. In her interview she said “I’m so ashamed OF HIM”. Not “I’m so ashamed” or “I’m so ashamed I had an affair” but “I’m so ashamed OF HIM”.
Also JMO of course. But that’s the way I have read her behavior.

 

[La Louve]

She knew she had thrown tantrums about his kids and marital status.

RSBM
JMO I take issue with this because the only source we have for it is CW saying in the post conviction interviews that he had to (paraphrased) "talk NK off the ledge" several times.

That statement of his smacks of gaslighting to me. Just like he gaslighted Shannan on multiple occasions. He clearly has no respect for women at all, especially when it comes to covering his a$$. That he would take his family's side in the nutgate situation was the ultimate gaslighting of Shannan.

IMO he played Shannan against his mother and sister for the entirety of his marriage.

He's a disgusting excuse for a human being and doesn't even deserve to be called a man.

 

[molly1255]

But I think there's pretty clear reasons for her lies. She googled whether people hated Amber Frey. She was worried about her reputation. And I think she knew she was the trigger for his murder. She knew she had thrown tantrums about his kids and marital status.

The absence of evidence in this case doesn't point to her possible involvement. Nothing suggests she helped murder the family or covered anything directly related to the murders after.

She did tamper with evidence, however, by deleting the stuff on her phone and asking CW and her friend to do so, after she learned the family was missing. I don't think it's related at all to her direct, actual involvement in the killings but it did go to CW's motive I believe. She didn't want anyone to know she was the trigger or what a horrid person she is.

But they didn't charge her for that. And they didn't go after her for lying. And they won't, IMO.

From what I've seen in the past when LE/DA feels a person is guilty of a violenr crime they can't prove, they'll go after them for what they can like tampering, perjury, obstruction, drug dealing (Haleigh Cummings case).

They haven't done that here.

And they could have for tampering. But in my opinion the reason they don't is because they don't believe she is more involved and they don't want to alienate future potential witnesses. They want to encourage cooperation with law-enforcement rather than discouraging it by going after even abhorrent witnesses.

I do understand and I respect what you are saying. Until recently, I felt LE was comfortable with NK and my thoughts were that she probably deleted the text messages and lied in an attempt to try to save face.

Some of the questions that were asked of CW in the prison interview regarding NK, that I've previously outlined here, gave me pause on this.

JMO

 

[molly1255]

RSBM
JMO I take issue with this because the only source we have for it is CW saying in the post conviction interviews that he had to (paraphrased) "talk NK off the ledge" several times.

That statement of his smacks of gaslighting to me. Just like he gaslighted Shannan on multiple occasions. He clearly has no respect for women at all, especially when it comes to covering his a$$. That he would take his family's side in the nutgate situation was the ultimate gaslighting of Shannan.

IMO he played Shannan against his mother and sister for the entirety of his marriage.

He's a disgusting excuse for a human being and doesn't even deserve to be called a man.

JMO, I can see that she probably did throw tantrums during their relationship. I think we witnessed a tantrum during one of her interviews with the CBI when she was told they wanted to talk to her couch-surfing buddy and she did not want that.

I agree and I wouldn't be surprised at all if CW pitted his mother and sister against Shanann, and vice versa, throughout their entire relationship. He's a very twisted, evil man, JMO.

 

[DaisyKenny]

RSBM
JMO I take issue with this because the only source we have for it is CW saying in the post conviction interviews that he had to (paraphrased) "talk NK off the ledge" several times.

That statement of his smacks of gaslighting to me. Just like he gaslighted Shannan on multiple occasions. He clearly has no respect for women at all, especially when it comes to covering his a$$. That he would take his family's side in the nutgate situation was the ultimate gaslighting of Shannan.

IMO he played Shannan against his mother and sister for the entirety of his marriage.

He's a disgusting excuse for a human being and doesn't even deserve to be called a man.

You're absolutely right that he doesn't deserve to be called a man/husband/father. Even the term monster is too good for him. He is an evil manipulative greedy .

The only reason I question if NK was involved at all is because he planned it out ahead of time. His motive was clearly to have a carefree childfree new life with his mistress, so he had an expectation of her not questioning the disappearance of his family. According to him, she told him to get back to her "after this is done", even though she knew he was responsible.

The biggest unanswered question to me is what he planned to do with their stuff and the Lexus. Did he need help to dispose of it? If so, she's the only option who wouldn't turn him in.
MOO