I would make any child who doesn't want to recite the pledge to stand out in the hallway during the pledge. They WOULD NOT be allowed to continue to sit in the classroom while the pledge is recited. This would be very disrespectful to the patriotic students.
CO - Teacher Accused of Forcing Boy to Stand for Pledge of Allegiance Takes Plea Deal, Sept. 1, 2018
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I've just read some books on the Marines fighting on Peleliu, storming Iwo Jima, where five Marines risked ALL to plant that flag on the heights of Mount Suribachi. I've flown over Suribachi and admit, the tears flowed as I gazed on its heights. I wonder how a younger generation who don't recite the Pledge will ever understand the
sacrifice of it all. How many of those Marines were allowed to sit during the Pledge?
sacrifice of it all. How many of those Marines were allowed to sit during the Pledge?
I understand your feelings. Let the ones who feel like standing and choose to do so... do so.. Forcing people is the thing I take issue with. I am a proud American. I choose to stand, but it is MY CHOICE. That is the beauty of it all. imo
kaen
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Respectfully, that is not your right or the right of any teacher in a public school. ( I am grateful that the Supreme Court has upheld the right to not pledge.) Children have the right to sit and not have to explain themselves for not standing and saluting. These may be your values and you could require that of people who visit your home. The rule of law is that a child doesn't have to stand and recite. It is discriminatory for a child to be removed from class for this reason. A child can request to leave but it is not permitted to remove them.
There is no disrespect that is at play here for a person/s who are exercising their right to not pledge.
If you want to see some heroes refused to serve but found ways to be supportive of those who did, you can read about Desmond T. Doss who earned a medal of honor. Desmond would have been a student who did not pledge but put himself at great risk and upheld his religious beliefs.
You would make a child do something to bend to your beliefs? Why not go after the parents? That's where the thinking likely comes from.
I really dislike and disrespect this type of thinking - not seeing the 'American way' or the way of freedom in this. Jmo.
I respect your experience and your feelings during this experience - one does not inherit the ability in the free world to impose this on others though. The enemy of the world at the moment is in fact trying to impose their beliefs on others and are failing to understand why others cannot see it 'their way'.
A random person , teacher, or anyone in authority or "power" or elected official - - does not have the right to force another to believe as he/she believes or have a child removed from class for not doing so...not in a free country. God and the universe, help us. Last I checked we are still a free country; but watching the news, I am scared.
I am puzzled and if any of you can help me understand I am open minded and willing to listen. I do not understand why people need to FORCE others to believe as they believe and do as they do. If you (in general "you") are so great and wonderful, then lead by example; Why not be honorable and honest and compassionate and kind especially to those less fortunate or old or sick or very young and vulnerable. and let folks choose to observe and follow a compassionate , understanding example ...if they choose. Sheesh.
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EuTuCroquet?
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No student can be forced to recite it. That’s the law, decided by the highest court in our awesome country, and it’s the school’s code.
Why would someone disrespect the laws of our country by forcing someone to do something that violates their rights? That’s not very patriotic, imo.
The Pledge alone does not teach anyone to respect their country. In gradeschool, I had zero understanding of what it meant. It was just something we had to do before we could start class.
It was a waste of time.
Besides, it was written by a minister and a magazine’s promotion department for an event to celebrate the (then) new Columbus Day holiday in public schools in 1892. The minister, in his infinite wisdom, didn’t include “under God.”
Imagine that!
Anyway, Jehovah’s Witnesses (they’re Christians too, btw!) are prohibited by their faith from “venerating a graven image.”
And, in 1943, the Supreme Court agreed that forcing people to recite The Pledge and venerate a flag infringed on their religious freedom. It violated their First Amendment rights.
The student in this case, specifically, was assaulted for practicing his constitutional rights.
Why would anyone want to deny children their freedom to practice their religion? Or anyone’s right to free speech? That seems unpatriotic to me, tbh. (Denying Americans their constitutional rights is not what the Pledge or our flag stands for, imo.)
But wait, there’s more!
Political and other organizations lobbied to add “under God” in 1954.
Religions of all kinds (as well as believers in none) took issue, saying it’s religiously intolerant to make, say, Buddhists and Hindus repeat allegiance to a single deity, which goes against the teachings of their faith.
If someone doesn’t like kids not standing for or reciting the Pledge of Allegiance, curse the groups who politicized it over the years (and still do!!).
Also, blame the lawmakers who believed they knew better than the minister who authored it (!), and further changed it so that it violated our constitutional right of freedom of religion even further.
The Man Who Wrote the Pledge of Allegiance | History | Smithsonian
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EuTuCroquet?
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I realize you’re just posting for reax and giggles.
That said:
What you’re proposing is illegal. I imagine you wouldn’t be a teacher for very long if you tried it, either, imo. Retaliating against a child in that way violates their First Amendment rights of freedom of speech and religion. Hard stop. But I have a feeling you already know this.
If you’re in doubt, I suggest you consider reading the first post/links in this thread. Then, perhaps you’ll consider reading this:
The Pledge of Allegiance and Legal Challenges in Education - FindLaw
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EuTuCroquet?
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Or, like in this case, even assaulting children. smh
What are we teaching our children nowadays? Extremism, violence, intolerance?
MarziPanda
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It really, really doesn't matter WHY the student doesn't want to say it. It matters that he has the right to choose not to say it. Maybe he's an immigrant and doesn't want to say it (if I were that age and had moved to the US, I wouldn't say it, as I'm not American) or maybe he takes issue with people thinking it's the 'greatest country' when it has a lot of issues that other countries don't have. Maybe he's of a religion where it's not allowed. Whatever the case is, it's irrelevant. The only thing that's relevant is that he was assaulted by an adult for exercising his right to choose. It's the teacher who's unpatriotic here.
Also, legitimate criticism of one's country doesn't mean someone 'should just move'. They're trying to make the country better by pointing out ways it can improve. There have been plenty of people who refuse to say the pledge but love the US and want to make it a better place for all.
EuTuCroquet?
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Public service post!
A kind TL;DR for folks who haven’t read or followed this story:
The student has a constitutional right to choose not to say it, and to remain seated, and not be retaliated against or assaulted.
This teacher was charged with child abuse and assault. She broke the law. She pleaded guilty to assault and retired as part of the plea. A criminal trial date was scheduled for later this year, but now she won’t have to go through that, nor will her victim. She also received an 18-month deferred sentence.
She is guilty.
Where he lives is irrelevant, other than he lives in America, is an American, and has constitutional rights just like the rest of us. He’s in exactly the right place to freely practice those freedoms.
Bless him. He’s a victim of a crime.
Moo and all that.
Peace.
A kind TL;DR for folks who haven’t read or followed this story:
The student has a constitutional right to choose not to say it, and to remain seated, and not be retaliated against or assaulted.
This teacher was charged with child abuse and assault. She broke the law. She pleaded guilty to assault and retired as part of the plea. A criminal trial date was scheduled for later this year, but now she won’t have to go through that, nor will her victim. She also received an 18-month deferred sentence.
She is guilty.
Where he lives is irrelevant, other than he lives in America, is an American, and has constitutional rights just like the rest of us. He’s in exactly the right place to freely practice those freedoms.
Bless him. He’s a victim of a crime.
Moo and all that.
Peace.
EuTuCroquet?
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Exactly this.
She also pleaded guilty to assault and she retired as a part of her plea deal, avoiding a criminal court trial.
She assaulted a child; she broke the law.
She’s guilty.
Full stop.
The victim blaming in this case is ridiculous and wholly inappropriate, imo.
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ZoriahNZ
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Thank you for clearing this up, by offering some historical perspective.
This woman broke the law, she assaulted a child and tried to violate his constitutional rights. She was absolutely in the wrong, both ethically and legally. There is nothing patriotic in forcing people to do something which they are constitutionally protected from being compelled to do. In fact, I think it's pretty unpatriotic and goes against the spirit of the Founding Fathers, in my humble opinion. There are many reasons why a person might choose not to stand for or recite the Pledge of Allegiance. The same goes for not standing during the national anthem. JMO, but religious freedom, freedom of speech against an oppressive government, freedom of the press and so on are part of the very fabric of what makes America America. Civil protest is a valid way of showing how much one truly cares about one's country. In fact, in my opinion, it's far more valid than insisting on blind obedience to practices which may be harmful to society (like slavery or denying women the vote) or discriminatory (Christian prayer in public schools despite separation of church and state, only allowed to speak English despite it not being the official language etc.).
There are 'patriotic' people who get all up in arms about the National Anthem or Pledge of Allegiance protests while wearing American flag clothing or hats. Isn't that ironic?
4 U.S. Code § 8 - Respect for flag
I think it's perfectly fine to have one's own personal opinion about what respects or disrespects a particular country, flag or religion. Where we will run into issues, however, is when those opinions turn into criminal actions which go against the law of the land. Those people need to be educated as to what is actually acceptable and appropriate, and sometimes that means legal repercussions for said actions.
This woman broke the law, she assaulted a child and tried to violate his constitutional rights. She was absolutely in the wrong, both ethically and legally. There is nothing patriotic in forcing people to do something which they are constitutionally protected from being compelled to do. In fact, I think it's pretty unpatriotic and goes against the spirit of the Founding Fathers, in my humble opinion. There are many reasons why a person might choose not to stand for or recite the Pledge of Allegiance. The same goes for not standing during the national anthem. JMO, but religious freedom, freedom of speech against an oppressive government, freedom of the press and so on are part of the very fabric of what makes America America. Civil protest is a valid way of showing how much one truly cares about one's country. In fact, in my opinion, it's far more valid than insisting on blind obedience to practices which may be harmful to society (like slavery or denying women the vote) or discriminatory (Christian prayer in public schools despite separation of church and state, only allowed to speak English despite it not being the official language etc.).
There are 'patriotic' people who get all up in arms about the National Anthem or Pledge of Allegiance protests while wearing American flag clothing or hats. Isn't that ironic?
4 U.S. Code § 8 - Respect for flag
I think it's perfectly fine to have one's own personal opinion about what respects or disrespects a particular country, flag or religion. Where we will run into issues, however, is when those opinions turn into criminal actions which go against the law of the land. Those people need to be educated as to what is actually acceptable and appropriate, and sometimes that means legal repercussions for said actions.
This. It's impossible to have credibility by advocating for or committing extremism, violence and intolerance and then say it's not OK for others to do it. Jmo.
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Those are good questions. We don’t know the reason this child refused to stand. But the majority of students who do not recite the pledge (usually standing) are Jehovah’s Witnessses. As laid out in the information below, for Jehovah’s Witnesses pledging allegiance to the flag is considered an act of idolatry. It has nothing to do with liking or respecting this country or any other of over 200 countries where Jehovah’s Witnesses live, are upstanding citizens and do not salute the flag. The right of this and every student to not salute the flag was established by the Supreme Court. What the teacher did was illegal. Here is information to explain further, if you are interested.
Flag Salute, Voting, and Civilian Service | God’s Love
A Stand of Courage and Conscience Established Supreme Court Precedent 75 Years Ago | JW.ORG News
Incidentally, Jehovah’s Witnesses are once again banned in Russia, and considered “extremists,” despite being honored as good citizens and parents. Go figure.
Russia says the US has "no moral right" to demand Jehovah's Witnesses release
Russia’s Supreme Court Confirms Earlier Ruling to Criminalize Jehovah’s Witnesses
Russian Officials Honor Jehovah’s Witnesses for Outstanding Community Service
President Putin Gives Parenting Award to Jehovah’s Witnesses
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