CO - The Stalking and Mysterious Death of Morgan Ingram #3

[OtherEyes]

I was curious as to the Dalmane in particular since it is such an unusual drug. If pulmonary edema is a common side effect, then a whole group of people can be ruled out as potential patients taking it.

I've seen it prescribed, but not that often at all. I was hoping maybe some info on it could give me an idea as to where it could have come from, since it is so rarely used. For instance, as someone pointed out, when it is seen in a med list, it's usually an elderly patient. Any type of "quirk" like that might tell us something.

Like Honey said (at least I think it was Honey), find out where the medication came from, and you'll find out what happened.

Was the medication stolen from somewhere? Was it prescribed to some other family member? Was it something available to an outsider? Was it something borrowed from a friend? If, for instance, Dalmane is something only seen given to elderly patients, then who has access to a nursing home or an elderly family member? If it's used to calm down panicky dogs, who has access to a vet? Same with the Flexeril; who had an injury, perhaps, being treated or access to someone with an injury. Who had been treated in the past with muscle relaxants? Did anyone in the group have chronic pain issues? Most of these questions will never get answered, but it doesn't hurt to look.

BBM
I'm still a few pages back so forgive if this has already been thought of but...
Excellent question and my thoughts as well. On the radio blog show didn't TI mention that the last day of Morgan's life she was with a boy for most of the day and when her dad texted her about dinner she said she was still with her friend at his Grandmother's? Could this be the source of that particular "old school drug"???? Does anyone else remember her mentioning being at someone's grandmas house that evening?

ETA Found that reference ... At 57:00 to about 58:33
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/websleuths/2012/09/17/websleuths-radio

 

[armcha1r_detect1ve]

BBM

Sorry, that statement rubs me the wrong way. It seems to imply that if there isn't some outward signs of a struggle, than that means that the person must not have been assaulted. I think that's a dangerous assumption.

I'd like to know where they get the no signs of assault, since they never even did a rape kit. They don't know if she was assaulted. There wouldn't have to be any outwardly signs if she was drugged. It's the reason assailants use things like roofies. Just because there were no signs of a struggle doesn't mean she wasn't assaulted and they don't know if she was. . .because they never bothered to check!!!

I would think that if she had been raped then they would have discovered that in her autopsy.

Link to the post mentioning the autopsy results.

If the parents brought up the stalking and potential murder they would have checked for all of that in her autopsy which was performed in the afternoon on the day she was found.

We've not seen the autopsy report, but I think we can rule rape out of it. If she had been raped this would not be a mysterious death, but definitely a crime.

 

[mysterygirl]

LOL, I just have to laugh at the no stalking thing.

If her blog is true, and I believe it is............and if even HALF of the things happened, it's a no duh there was a stalker for me.

 

[mysterygirl]

Good night peeps, keep up the good work.

 

[armcha1r_detect1ve]

LOL, I just have to laugh at the no stalking thing.

If her blog is true, and I believe it is............and if even HALF of the things happened, it's a no duh there was a stalker for me.

Can you link to some police reports confirming these things happened? I'd like to see them.

Also, how are you confirming her blog is true?

I'm not saying weird things weren't happening.

I just don't think they're connected to her daughter's death.

 

[hambirg]

I would think that if she had been raped then they would have discovered that in her autopsy.

Link to the post mentioning the autopsy results.

If the parents brought up the stalking and potential murder they would have checked for all of that in her autopsy which was performed in the afternoon on the day she was found.

We've not seen the autopsy report, but I think we can rule rape out of it. If she had been raped this would not be a mysterious death, but definitely a crime.

No, they never checked if she had been raped during her autopsy. We were told no rape kit was done. It should have been done as a matter of SOP.

I don't think we can rule rape out. But I agree, if they had done a rape kit we would know if a crime was committed. We would know if somebody was in Morgan's room that night. It would have shed a lot more light surrounding the mystery of her death. Why they didn't do one I don't know. Ugh!

 

[SapphireSteel]

No, they never checked if she had been raped during her autopsy. We were told no rape kit was done. It should have been done as a matter of SOP.

I don't think we can rule rape out. But I agree, if they had done a rape kit we would know if a crime was committed. We would know if somebody was in Morgan's room that night. It would have shed a lot more light surrounding the mystery of her death. Why they didn't do one I don't know. Ugh!

Really?

That seems almost impossible to believe!

:what:

 

[NancyA]

No, they never checked if she had been raped during her autopsy. We were told no rape kit was done. It should have been done as a matter of SOP.

I don't think we can rule rape out. But I agree, if they had done a rape kit we would know if a crime was committed. We would know if somebody was in Morgan's room that night. It would have shed a lot more light surrounding the mystery of her death. Why they didn't do one I don't know. Ugh!

BBM. Unless I missed something, none of us have seen the crime scene report or the autopsy report, we don't know for sure what was done or not done.

 

[21merc7]

BBM. Unless I missed something, none of us have seen the crime scene report or the autopsy report, we don't know for sure what was done or not done.

Want to add to that, we don't know if the original COD of "natural causes" was pending toxicology. We don't know if a death certificate was given until tox came back. No official documents to go on yet.

 

[21merc7]

Trying to go through my brain and figure out why this case leaves me with such uncomfortable feelings. Not through it all yet.

I am wondering about M's death.

The family did not immediately suspect murder, (and as told not until someone suggested it), even though the words are telling us they felt terrorized by someone that knocked on the windows, etc...

What would you think when you found your daughter deceased in the morning? Acceptance of suicide until someone suggests otherwise? I'm struggling with that. Were there reasons to accept suicide?

The reason I am thinking about that is b/c when I was being stalked, I told my family not to cremate me if I died during that period and why. We had discussed our deaths before, and I said to cremate for financial reasons and not to take up space in the ground. It was my first concern when I was being stalked, before I bought the first can of pepper spray. I was terrified that I would be murdered, and they knew that. Maybe that is just my experience, but when someone is everywhere you are and doing all that creepy stuff that happened to me, you do fear for your life. jmo

 

[rollinginit]

It's already been determined by more than one medical examiner what has happened.

Are we just choosing to ignore the facts?

Sorry! I don't think anybody is ignoring any facts, b/c there are not many facts to go on.

The only true fact that is known........ Morgan died.
And there is ONLY one report shown from Dr. D.
And the ONLY statement released to the media from LE was LE saying they responded to the Ingram's house 50 times and found no signs of stalking and they agree with the first ME's report from Dr. K.

Everything else is left for people to compare in their own head what sounds right to them. Some people weigh different information with more value. I don't think it's fair to say some of us are ignoring facts. JMO

 

[NancyA]

Trying to go through my brain and figure out why this case leaves me with such uncomfortable feelings. Not through it all yet.

I am wondering about M's death.

The family did not immediately suspect murder, (and as told not until someone suggested it), even though the words are telling us they felt terrorized by someone that knocked on the windows, etc...

What would you think when you found your daughter deceased in the morning? Acceptance of suicide until someone suggests otherwise? I'm struggling with that. Were there reasons to accept suicide?

The reason I am thinking about that is b/c when I was being stalked, I told my family not to cremate me if I died during that period and why. We had discussed our deaths before, and I said to cremate for financial reasons and not to take up space in the ground. It was my first concern when I was being stalked, before I bought the first can of pepper spray. I was terrified that I would be murdered, and they knew that. Maybe that is just my experience, but when someone is everywhere you are and doing all that creepy stuff that happened to me, you do fear for your life. jmo

I'm struggling with it too, especially given that we have 2 conflicting accounts from mom:

v1) that the morning of the discovery she knew M had been murdered

http://www.postindependent.com/article/20120901/VALLEYNEWS/120839978

v2) they didn't suspect murder until someone suggested it.

Speaking purely for myself it's no surprise that some of us find it difficult to accept everything mom says on blind faith since some of the accounts she gives us are unreliable to say the least.

 

[21merc7]

I'm struggling with it too, especially given that we have 2 conflicting accounts from mom:

v1) that the morning of the discovery she knew M had been murdered

http://www.postindependent.com/article/20120901/VALLEYNEWS/120839978

v2) they didn't suspect murder until someone suggested it.

Speaking purely for myself it's no surprise that some of us find it difficult to accept everything mom says on blind faith since some of the accounts she gives us are unreliable to say the least.

Agreed.

It seems to me if murder was your first though, LE would be called immediately (not later) and thorough investigation demanded. I would continue to call LE until other officers got there to investigate if the first crew would not. I know I would be an emotional wreck, but my baby would get an investigation even if I was in shock and pain. Again, moo.

I would also find a way, beg, borrow, whatever, to have at least 2 autopsies done. It does seem to me the family is with as much t.v. and book knowledge of crime as anyone else in the world, so it is not like they would not think about it if there was fear going on a few months before.

 

[NancyA]

Did we ever get any further with finding out why there was such a long time lapse between finding M's body and the arrival of the first responders?

 

[rollinginit]

Agreed.

It seems to me if murder was your first though, LE would be called immediately (not later) and thorough investigation demanded. I would continue to call LE until other officers got there to investigate if the first crew would not. I know I would be an emotional wreck, but my baby would get an investigation even if I was in shock and pain. Again, moo.

I would also find a way, beg, borrow, whatever, to have at least 2 autopsies done. It does seem to me the family is with as much t.v. and book knowledge of crime as anyone else in the world, so it is not like they would not think about it if there was fear going on a few months before.

I agree with you, but we have no way of knowing what mom did right after finding M's body, or what anybody else did. (family, LE, ME, or EMS) The first autopsy was done and released on Dec. 19, 2011. 17 days after M was found dead.

Her death initially was attributed to natural causes, according to an autopsy report dated Dec. 19

Specifically, Kurtzman's report cited “marked pulmonary edema,” or fluid buildup in the lungs, and “acute intermittent porphyria,” a metabolic disorder that causes severe stomach pains.

So, after Dec 19, the parents "knew" what the report was.

There are gaps after that....we do not know what went on behind the curtain.

Mom starts the blog in June 2012. At this point, it is pretty easy to understand that she is not happy with the men in hats. She talks about mailing letters to them. She talks to a reporter, and the reporter talks to the ME. That is when mom finds out they changed the report. It's easy to understand she asked for a second opinion from Dr. D way before this time, but I am not sure of when exactly.
http://morganingram.com/wordpress/?p=920

Then,

On July 28 however, Kurtzman's office issued a revised postmortem report that cites the cause of death as suicide resulting from a prescription-drug overdose.

Morgan Ingram died from “amitriptyline intoxication,” according to Kurtzman's report.

Here's the newspaper link
http://www.aspentimes.com/article/20120907/NEWS/120909901

 

[21merc7]

I see what you are saying rollinginit.

I think I did what I always do and distracted from my real question.

What would your first thought be when you find your daughter deceased one morning, especially if you had been terrorized for 4 months by a stalker?

(Besides the immediate horror and tremendous grief.)

 

[rollinginit]

Both of the parents are in grief counseling.

At least, that's what dad says on Aug 31 in the comments.

http://morganingram.com/wordpress/?p=920

 

[wyome]

I see what you are saying rollinginit.

I think I did what I always do and distracted from my real question.

What would your first thought be when you find your daughter deceased one morning, especially if you had been terrorized for 4 months by a stalker?

(Besides the immediate horror and tremendous grief.)

If my daughter had been terrorized for 4 months, if I had spent half that time installing motion detectors and flood lights and cameras all over the perimeter of my home, if I met my child every day in the driveway to make sure she wasn't snatched, if my fear was intensified knowing she was being followed in her car.....I believe my first thought in finding her deceased would be HE KILLED HER

 

[rollinginit]

I see what you are saying rollinginit.

I think I did what I always do and distracted from my real question.

What would your first thought be when you find your daughter deceased one morning, especially if you had been terrorized for 4 months by a stalker?

(Besides the immediate horror and tremendous grief.)

I would probably think murder. Then I would see all the people taking reports at the scene and think they have it covered. It was probably a very rough couple of months of coming to terms with her being gone. IMO, I think they didn't agree with the first report, but maybe it wouldn't be where it is if it wasn't changed. Maybe they started to ask questions.....and didn't agree with them. Then, what probably seems like a big cover up and a big FU from the ME...he changed the report right around the time they started questioning the report. JMO

 

[Marshmallow]

yes two on the report but that being said the two inconclusive ones were mentioned on the radio broadcast. (these are in addition to the two in the only report that we are able to see on the blog right now... that being said, it sounded on the broadcast that the mother was reading from the report and couldn't pronounce the second one. Perhaps she will post the other reports at some point)

but if they are only mentioned by the parents then should they be taken as fact?