CO - The Stalking and Mysterious Death of Morgan Ingram #1

[Lera213]

This is not directed at anyone in particular, but a few pages back (I think), someone was commenting on the photo of the lake ("Hanging Lake") that is posted with the 9/10's blog entry.

A comment (or two, or three...) made mention about how it was strange that Morgan was at the lake alone during this time.

I thought that was weird, too, so I went back and looked at the picture and blog posting again.

It doesn't say when Morgan went there. It only said that this was a place Morgan went sometimes, to meditate or reflect. And, tbh, the photo looks like it's from a late-June/July time frame, to judge on the greenery, and may not be a current year (again, because they're in a drought, so I'd think there'd be less green available).

I suppose my post is to make sure we're reading what was said, and commenting on that, and not assuming something (like she was at the lake during the bigger stalking events starting in August).

That being said, that lake looks awfully nice and peaceful. I can imagine being there would indeed bring much needed peace and quiet to someone, and I know that if I went there, I'd have Gracie and Romi swimming in the lake. LOL.

So let's be pretty careful about what we're commenting on, so that things don't get too distorted (like "Why was Morgan allowed to go to the lake alone?" when that's not what was said...).

And I am also quite firm in believing that the stalking began far, far earlier than August. I think that it is very likely that something happened at the end of 2010, or the beginning of 2011. There is some evidence that her car was keyed, and a derogatory term scratched onto the car, while she was at school (this was February).

This, to me, is the first instance one can point to, and say that "well, something's going on..."

Here is what I suspect ****may**** have happened.

Morgan crosses someone she goes to college with, for some reason or other. She gets her car keyed, doesn't make a huge deal of it, and continues on with school. She may change her class schedule, or not. But she graduates from college with her AA in late May. Bullying/harassment may have continued throughout this time, although Morgan didn't make too much mention of it to her parents.

I think Morgan went to California to work for her sister, and then took a trip out to Hawaii, to escape being in the same area that her bully/harasser was in...maybe the parents knew a bit about this - a bad breakup with a boyfriend, or a group of girls pissed off for some reason, something where Morgan needs to "take a break" and so is sent off for the summer. Parents thought the time away would be nice for Morgan, and for the parents, too.

Then, on the way back from Hawaii, she gets her puppy. She comes home, hoping that the break away for the summer has given whatever situation was going on time to cool off; maybe she hoped that absence made things fade, made hurts heal, and that now things would be better, she'd be able to return to her normal life.

But. That's not what happened. Word spread around that Morgan was home again, and shortly thereafter, the stalking started. Instead of making things better, maybe Morgan's summer vacation (and work) made it even more important for the stalker to go after this harder...like has been mentioned in these pages, sometimes, if you manage to avoid/evade your stalker, the next time they see you, it's worse than it was before.

That, to me, is a reasonable timeline of the beginning parts of all this. I firmly believe that this has more than one person doing the stalking, and again, I'm brought to mind of Diane Zamora and David (whatshisname).

With K and B breaking up in midOctober, I would be looking for an escalation of things just before that time, and after that time.

On a different topic, I also want to say that my parents would not have known to do as much as Morgan's parents did, and neither would my brother and sister-in-law. I would...but that's because I was also a victim of the stalker, and I am very interested in true crime and, of course, this board has taught me sooooo much about criminals and their twisted thinking that I can take better steps in protecting myself.

But my parents would not even have thought about meeting my car, let alone getting motion detectors. God bless them, they would not have thought of that at all.

If we are to be critical of the situation and the steps that Toni and Steve Ingram took, at least they did something. We don't know if they had a ton of money - fencing, CCTVs, alarm systems, and on and on take money. We do know they leased the property, and that it is an HOA area, and that itself would put some things out of reach for a leasee. Even if the property owner was amenable to it, the HOA may not have been...and it would have taken time - in some instances, perhaps a few months - before the HOA would approve something.

And, if, as LE had suggested, the Ingrams took a low profile on this, they wouldn't want to go to the HOA anyway.

We are very quick to criticize, and say we'd do things differently. And we might indeed do things differently. But I'd venture to say that we've followed true crime long enough to know some of the unwritten rules, have seen things that taught us how to be better at protecting ourselves, and have learned from others mistake. I doubt strongly that the Ingrams read about and learn from true crime websites and cases like we do...and thus, they are at a disadvantage to begin with.

All of this is, as all my other posts are (and will be), my own opinion, my own observations, and my own conclusions. I just think that we need to be a bit more aware of where the Ingrams are coming from, and be gentle with them regarding what we would have done differently. I see the parents doing their best, in a very alien situation, to protect their daughter...and to read Toni's guilt in each and every post, her self-doubt, her regret, and her love for her daughter...well, I think we need to be more gentle with her...and with ourselves, too.

Best-
Herding Cats

Amen; and my conclusions are the same.

 

[21merc7]

I've been a stalking victim and have had a variety of different alarm systems in the residences of which I've lived. Recently I was a tenant and ADT was quite able to provide me with a wireless (non-installed, non-invasive) system that I took with me after I moved. They were little wireless units that were easy to mount and dismount around doors, windows, etc...

Just sayin'.....

I had one of these once. It was a gift. Battery operated so it seemed safer as no one could cut wires. I did not have it set up to alert the police though. It would just go off if windows and doors were opened when it was set. Or constantly when the battery needed replaced.

 

[21merc7]

the problem I have with a group terrorizing her is not just that no one saw 1 person, let alone several, it's also that so many questions are unanswered and don't make any sense. We'd have to imagine that a group of people took the time and effort to slowly terrorize a household of adults and not been caught, that they broke in repeatedly but were never seen nor anything messed or missing and that they tired of this game and decided to kill her leaving no trace of a fight for her life, sign of murder or debris from the murder. My mind is still open but it is hard to add together.

I don't think the medications were given to her in the home.

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

Have any of the great sleuthers here at WS attempted to correlate the Garfield Police Log entries with the dates and times of the mom's blogs? I just wanted to see if the 40-50 times that LE came out to the home in Carbondale (according to mom) is accurate or if she meant that it felt like that many times due to all the stress?

Not trying to discredit anything or anyone, just trying to see if the blog and the Log collaborate......???????

 

[mysterygirl]

A comment on Facebook stuck out to me.

Responding to the fact that LE produced no evidence publicly of stalking, the comment said I know it's hard to believe but the stalker or stalkers family may have a connection to the county and that will all come out eventually.

I'm paraphrasing.

 

[nursebeeme]

I ran across this blog, and found it fascinating. You can spend hours reading her entries looking for leads or clues.

http://morganingram.com/wordpress/?p=389
"One year ago today Morgan’s stalking started"

The family posts this on August 2nd.

Their daughter was stalked for 4 months, and in Dec of 2011 she died under mysterious circustances. There was no investigation.

The family has been posting events on the one year anniversary of the occurance each day leading up until her death.

So they will be posting every day until December.

Their site apparently is now getting over 40,000 hits a day as more and more people are reading about what they went through, and what little was done by police enforcement to catch the stalker and also to investigate her death.

The blog format is a bit conufusing. After each daily post, there is a separate comment section, and then also you scroll back up and hit 'next'
to read the next days post.

There are a months worth of posts now, and it seems there will be plenty to read in the coming weeks. They have been incredibly responsive to comments and also incredibly appreciative.

I'm curious to everybody's thoughts and insight on this.

May we discuss it?


Here are some ground rules for posting on this unique case:


1)no bashing of the family: THIS INCLUDES THE FORMAT OF THE BLOG
2)no sleuthing of the family
3)discuss the blog posts
4)do not copy and paste blog comments
5)no speculation on mental illness of the family or Morgan (there is nothing in the msm to back this up)
6)use the alert button to communicate any posts that you have a question with
7)leave the snark and personal attacks at the door

......

after reviewing the entire thread I will also add on sleuthing the parents' property.. :-( and also add:

8) use initials when posting any possible suspects. As far as sleuthing them yourselves we will stick only to what is in the msm or on the blog itself.




no discussion timeline/media/photo thread

bumping up the ground rules for this thread. It lands randomly.

 

[MayraMM]

Have any of the great sleuthers here at WS attempted to correlate the Garfield Police Log entries with the dates and times of the mom's blogs? I just wanted to see if the 40-50 times that LE came out to the home in Carbondale (according to mom) is accurate or if she meant that it felt like that many times due to all the stress?

Not trying to discredit anything or anyone, just trying to see if the blog and the Log collaborate......???????

I can't find any matches except the day she died, which is why I was asking if maybe another LE agency was involved.

 

[alwaysonmymind]

Have any of the great sleuthers here at WS attempted to correlate the Garfield Police Log entries with the dates and times of the mom's blogs? I just wanted to see if the 40-50 times that LE came out to the home in Carbondale (according to mom) is accurate or if she meant that it felt like that many times due to all the stress?

Not trying to discredit anything or anyone, just trying to see if the blog and the Log collaborate......???????

I can't find any matches except the day she died, which is why I was asking if maybe another LE agency was involved.

keeponsearching found an entry on 8/26/2011 that I believe corresponded with the blog entry for 8/25/2011. I'll try to find it.

 

[Cornbread]

Again LE has never made statements nor alluded to questioning was there a stalker.. Thats just not been the case here .. Actually quite the opposite is indicated by LE in their making the decision to up the case from misdemeanor to felony stalking ..

Unfortunately we do not yet have all of the information of the case and the events leading up to Morgan's death(be it death by homicide, death by suicide, death by natural causes of a young womans body being weakened physically and mentally over a long period of time)..whatever the death is going to be technically classified imo one thing at this present time that I feel certain about is that any of those causes of death were imo a direct result of what this young woman was put thru and experienced for an extended period of time..

Again as far as LE goes they have never stated nor alluded to their believing that this felony stalking case was ever in any way fraudulent, a figment of someones imagination, or faked in any way whatsoever.. To have done any of those above actions would absolutely be prosecutable offenses that LE wouldnt for one second hesitate in throwing the book at any/all members of the Ingram family for their filing fraudulent police reports, lying to LE, and wasting hundreds of hours and dollars on a non existent stalker case..(especially now where Toni has taken this..you better believe theyd be striking back legally and throwing the book at them)...LE HAS NEVER ONCE STATED THEY BELIEVED THE FELONY STALKING CASE TO BE IN ANY WAY FRAUDULENT.

This exactly. My guess would be that as the blog goes on, we'll start to see escalations that will begin to make more sense as to "what a stalker usually does". This went on for 4 months and we're just over a month into the events that Toni feels lead up to Morgan's death.

 

[alwaysonmymind]

2011-
00020197
08/26/2011
03:26:59
Inactive/Closed 62 CORRAL DR Carbondale
Deputies took a report of a suspicious incident including property damage outside the town of Carbondale.

I wonder what was damaged.. Oh maybe the locks?

This is from the sheriffs log.

 

[21merc7]

I can't find any matches except the day she died, which is why I was asking if maybe another LE agency was involved.

This post lists several. I don't know which ones were involved though,

http://morganingram.com/wordpress/?p=1068

ETA: I don't know if any of the agencies would list every single incident on the internet. I know here only major crimes are listed. Maybe there are too many, maybe they are irrelevant, but only the individual police stations would have those records. If that makes sense.

 

[SapphireSteel]

I'm sorry but I believe this is a case of grieving parents unable to accept the likely scenario. My heart goes out to them.

Most likely in my mind is that this girl took an overdose - whether intentional or not...the fact that she od'd on her own medicine with no sign of any struggle tells me it was self-administered.

 

[gitana1]

Yes, it was a small baby doe... that is why I asked about critters possibly setting off the motion detectors...

On another note, I found this site with information about stalking... scroll down to navigate the site

http://www.esia.net/Forms_of_Stalking.htm

Great site. Thank you for that!

BBM - this almost sounds like the JonBenet Ramsey case, same state and all, except for the alleged stalking.

Doesn't sound a thing like the Jon Benet case to me. Jon Benet was taken from her bed, hidden in a basement, bound, gagged and violently assaulted and strangled to death. I see nothing at all similar with this case in which Morgan was found dead in her bed with no signs of assault, injury, being bound, forced entry (thus far), nothing.

It really doesn't fit with the description of her on the main website wanting to attend CU Boulder, planning to attend law school, having the whole thing worked out. That page does mention her going after yoga certification, but I don't see how ballet classes get her there...nor do I understand why she was taking pointe classes after only a few years of ballet.


I think the mental anguish associated with the stalking was meant to punish her...her death was probably meant to punish her survivors.

Agreed, but this crime doesn't appear to fit a known pattern....If this was carried out by a group, the one with the passionate grudge could have been hiding in the shadows while someone colder and dispassionate was carrying out orders. Someone clearly got a payoff from ruining her life and may not have been willing to stop until she was dead.

The stalking itself absolutely fits known patterns. Stalking ending in murder is also a definitive pattern. But show me a case where a stalking ended in a murder that was not violent. Show me one case.

Finally, we don't know that there was a crime here when it comes to Morgan's death. There is evidence of the crime of stalking, but no evidence has come to light that her death was via homicide. Even the second opinion coroner's report includes no evidence or even suggestion, really, of homicide. Only that the death should be reclassified as undetermined.

Don't know my source, but police were not first responders...call was made well before 12

Thank you. That clears up a lot.

 

[gitana1]

This is from the sheriffs log.

Yes, here's the link to that log: http://www.garcosheriff.com/sheriff_log/2011_08_26_to_08_28.pdf

Question is, why do they now say there was no evidence of stalking? Did they verify damage to the locks and if so, are they trying to claim that damage to the locks of the home of people who had repeatedly called to report stalking, is not evidence of stalking?

This is a hole in the police's story that they found no evidence of stalking.

 

[rollinginit]

I've been a stalking victim and have had a variety of different alarm systems in the residences of which I've lived. Recently I was a tenant and ADT was quite able to provide me with a wireless (non-installed, non-invasive) system that I took with me after I moved. They were little wireless units that were easy to mount and dismount around doors, windows, etc...

Just sayin'.....

Maybe so. My experience with them was in 02. And I may live in a different state than you do (oh) so there MAY be different laws reguarding landlord/tenant laws.

 

[keeponsearching]

I went through most of the log. And did not see much.
Do you think that dec 02 might not of been her? I did not see the address listed. And not seeing any other listed. Maybe its on another log.

 

[ChunkyMonkey]

There is so much on the Internet about snorting amytriptilian. Wow. Crazy world we're living in these days. This is one way to get a bunch of the drug into your system at once, without leaving any traces in your stomach. Anyway, I am not proposing a new theory, just stating a fact.

 

[AbbeyR]

This is not directed at anyone in particular, but a few pages back (I think), someone was commenting on the photo of the lake ("Hanging Lake") that is posted with the 9/10's blog entry.

A comment (or two, or three...) made mention about how it was strange that Morgan was at the lake alone during this time.

I thought that was weird, too, so I went back and looked at the picture and blog posting again.

It doesn't say when Morgan went there. It only said that this was a place Morgan went sometimes, to meditate or reflect. And, tbh, the photo looks like it's from a late-June/July time frame, to judge on the greenery, and may not be a current year (again, because they're in a drought, so I'd think there'd be less green available).

I suppose my post is to make sure we're reading what was said, and commenting on that, and not assuming something (like she was at the lake during the bigger stalking events starting in August). <snipped>

The mother responded to this on the blog. She said:

No she went with friends and took her puppy along as well. She was always watching, even during the day but felt pretty safe with all her friends around.

That is understandable.

I appreciate your suggestion to be gentle with the Ingrams. At the same time, I think the fact that they are taking this very public means that they are strong people and expect and can deal with a certain amount of questioning, which ultimately will make their case a lot stronger.

 

[Cornbread]

I'm sorry but I believe this is a case of grieving parents unable to accept the likely scenario. My heart goes out to them.

Most likely in my mind is that this girl took an overdose - whether intentional or not...the fact that she od'd on her own medicine with no sign of any struggle tells me it was self-administered.

But according to everything we've been told, it wasn't her own medicine.

 

[SapphireSteel]

But according to everything we've been told, it wasn't her own medicine.

Didn't her mother say it was hers, just that she hadn't taken any for a while?

Sorry if I read it wrong...