CO - The Stalking and Mysterious Death of Morgan Ingram #3

[deca]

Also, something else was incorrect in the Aspen Times link---M was not a graduate of Aspen High School. She was home schooled (not that one is better than the other).....and just wanted to point out that inconsistency.

In the blog, mom says that Morgan did go to Aspen High School. Not sure if she graduated there.

its here: http://morganingram.com/life.html

Also, for the newbies to this case, this link has Morgan's bio.

 

[SyraKelly]

let me ask you all this-do the people who feel Morgan committed suicide think it was b/c she was stalked or for other reasons?

are their any studies of people who are stalked that kill themselves?

 

[21merc7]

let me ask you all this-do the people who feel Morgan committed suicide think it was b/c she was stalked or for other reasons?

Other reasons, jmo.

I liked your other question, I am sure there are studies, haven't looked them up yet though.

 

[nursebeeme]

MelissaDawn, it is wonderful that you have come out of lurkdome! :cheer:

 

[SyraKelly]

Other reasons, jmo.

I liked your other question, I am sure there are studies, haven't looked them up yet though.

Thanks-I deleted it cause I thought maybe it was a dumb question,but I'll repost it

 

[MayraMM]

let me ask you all this-do the people who feel Morgan committed suicide think it was b/c she was stalked or for other reasons?

I think the stalking might have been the tipping point, but don't forget she lived years and years of abdominal pain, and chronic pain is a common reason for suicide. She took herself off the ami when she turned 18 (the ami had been controlling her stomach pain), so it's possible once off the pain returned. In her mind, it could have been the choice between living pain-free but sedated or having a real life but pain. The perception or actuality of stalking was just one more thing taking her independence away.

I, too, liked your other question and was in the process of researching it.

 

[concernedmother]

let me ask you all this-do the people who feel Morgan committed suicide think it was b/c she was stalked or for other reasons?

are their any studies of people who are stalked that kill themselves?

Im on the fence about how she died but I think the stalking could have easily wore her out and a factor if she committed suicide.

 

[gitana1]

Hi everyone! I'm new here, been lurking unregistered and registered for quite a long time. I had an ex who committed suicide by pill overdose. When he was discovered and the initial autopsy report done it was ruled as natural causes due to a heart defect. After the pathology report came back it was changed to suicide by overdose. It wasn't initially suspected because there were no pill bottles found around him. If you are getting the pills from friends/on the street there wouldn't be bottles. As for evidence of a glass, if the pills were crushed and mixed in with something to drink it's not like you would pass out immediately - you could easily walk to the bathroom or kitchen, rinse the glass and put it away. This is very tragic, either way, but I'm of the mindset this was a suicide.

I absolutely suck at figuring out these acronyms, always have - is there a post somewhere that lists the most commonly used ones on this site? Some are obvious, like LE, some I've found referenced within posts, like MSM or BBM (that one threw me for a long while, lol), but others I still haven't figured out.

:fireworks::welcome::fireworks:

let me ask you all this-do the people who feel Morgan committed suicide think it was b/c she was stalked or for other reasons?

are their any studies of people who are stalked that kill themselves?

I don't know what happened. It seems like it is likely suicide but I'm still on the fence. It could have been an accident. Or homicide of some sort. I just don't know.

But if it was suicide, I think it could be from either the stalking, other problems we are not aware of, or mental health issues unrelated to an actual stalking.

But, here's some studies:

http://bjp.rcpsych.org/content/187/5/416.full

http://bjp.rcpsych.org/content/170/...1a50e27b0fab0dd4860d4e8f&keytype2=tf_ipsecsha

http://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/article.aspx?articleID=174770

http://www.psychosomaticmedicine.or...66a1de418e0263bc7d9381c4&keytype2=tf_ipsecsha

There are also several articles about stalking victims killing themselves:

http://www.siasat.com/english/news/stalking-victim-anusha%E2%80%99s-sister-commits-suicide

http://news.priyo.com/national/2011/10/24/schoolgirl-commits-suicide-ove-41111.html

http://meloukhia.net/2010/03/adult_...nt_leads_to_death_of_15_year_old_student.html

 

[Kimster]

I Googled "stalked and committed suicide" and found a lot of cases where the victim committed suicide.

 

[concernedmother]

I Googled "stalked and committed suicide" and found a lot of cases where the victim committed suicide.

I think it would physically and mentally exhaust you.

 

[Sailorsgirl]

I've been asking the same thing. Since LE says they were there 50 times and so does mom, there really isn't a question that calls were made and responded to. I can't figure out why it's not in the run sheets unless all the calls didn't go to the same agency. Mom did list something like 6 different agencies serving the area.

That baffles me as well. Doesn't she say in the blog that it was the sheriff's dept. that responded? They called the local police in the beginning and were told they were in the sheriff's jurisdiction ...

I was a journalist for 10 years and part of our job at the newspaper was to get police blotters/reports. Even if they were called out to a scene and found nothing, that should still be in the blotter, but not necessarily have a full report (ie: suspicious vehicle seen in a neighborhood wouldn't have a report unless they found the vehicle and there was something going on). Some departments, however, seemed to leave things out or be so vague in the blotter that you wouldn't think to ask to see an actual report. One in particular would leave out things they didn't want reported or so the rumour mill suggested (often). Some departments were so open that they would give us full reports without our asking (even in one case where a kid had stolen things from the police department itself).

Do the run sheets you are speaking about have every minute incident for every day, from all the police beats? I haven't seen them so I'm just wondering what they look like (sorry if someone linked them and I missed it).

 

[nursebeeme]

let me ask you all this-do the people who feel Morgan committed suicide think it was b/c she was stalked or for other reasons?

are their any studies of people who are stalked that kill themselves?

this is a good question... I am off to football games but wanted to say that I think it is a very good probability that there are some statistics out there on this... we all know that bullying (sort of similar) and suicide can have a correlational relationship (just look in bullying forum here for cases of that :-(


eta: I see Gitana just posted some...! Thanks Gitana!

 

[keeponsearching]

Dang. That part about visiting the restaurant made me cry. It's so awful. Just hurts your heart.

Brought tears to my eyes, which usually does not happen :blushing:

Also the part about paying attention to the dog that night did to.

 

[Sailorsgirl]

this is a good question... I am off to football games but wanted to say that I think it is a very good probability that there are some statistics out there on this... we all know that bullying (sort of similar) and suicide can have a correlational relationship (just look in bullying forum here for cases of that :-(

I think it's very possible that someone relentlessly stalking you for 4 months could drive you to commit suicide ... it could also drive you to take meds just hoping to pass out and not have to deal with another terrifying night.

EBM: By the way, in how many cases of bullying, in which the victim committed suicide, did the bully get convicted of murder?

 

[MelissaDawn]

let me ask you all this-do the people who feel Morgan committed suicide think it was b/c she was stalked or for other reasons?

are their any studies of people who are stalked that kill themselves?

Hope I did that "quoting" correct, I'm still figuring out how to actually participate. Here's the theory I came up with a few days ago.

It was mentioned in the autopsy report that cause of death was "pulmonary edema due to acute intermittent porphyria". The mother states that Morgan did not have acute intermittent porphyria and that the father put that in the medical examiner's head as a possibility. This leads me to think that at some point in Morgan's life it was suspected she may have acute intermittent porphyria. It's a rare disorder many people have never even heard of, so if it wasn't being discussed as a possible diagnosis for Morgan at some point, why would the father mention such a rare disorder out of the blue? I'm certainly no expert, but I work as a medical transcriptionist and came across this very diagnosis one time (in 15 years, no less) and did some research about the condition on my own. Some of the symptoms of AIP include stomach pains, which Morgan was originally prescribed amitiptyline for, and confusion and hallucinations. In the letter from Dr. Doberson it clearly states Morgan's medical history was remarkable for nonspecific complaints including "abdominal pain and headache including cognitive disorders." If Morgan's medical records indicated AIP as a possible differential diagnosis, then it would be reasonable for the ME to put together that information with pulmonary edema from the autopsy and conclude AIP. And if she did indeed have AIP, she may have hallucinated the rocks hitting the windows and then spiraled from there since hallucinations are a symptom of AIP. If untreated, an AIP attack can last for weeks to months.

There doesn't seem to be any actual LE documented evidence of a stalker. As others have already pointed out, with all the motion activated cameras and lights, and people sitting up outside and neighbors keeping watch, it seems odd that no evidence considered substantial by LE was ever offered up.

It was also stated that Morgan still had amitriptyline in her possession, and nortriptyline was found in her system. Nortriptyline carries side effects of "excitement or anxiety" and "nightmares". If she had AIP and got her hands on nortriptyline (maybe from a friend trying to help with the stress of the situation) that could have easily worsened the psychological effects of AIP. Extremely tragic, since if it were AIP it is treatable/manageable, it's just not something that is typically looked for, it's more of a last resort diagnosis.

That being said, I think it's possible someone did throw rocks at the windows once, or even a few times. Possibly a friend trying to get Morgan to sneak out, possibly an instance of bullying due to fighting amongst a group of friends. However, to escalate from throwing rocks at windows to murder within 4 months, and for the murder to include getting into the house without any sign of an intruder and poisoning the victim in such a manner that there is no evidence whatsoever that anyone was there just seems highly unlikely in my opinion.

 

[AbcInAthens]

That baffles me as well. Doesn't she say in the blog that it was the sheriff's dept. that responded? They called the local police in the beginning and were told they were in the sheriff's jurisdiction ...

I was a journalist for 10 years and part of our job at the newspaper was to get police blotters/reports. Even if they were called out to a scene and found nothing, that should still be in the blotter, but not necessarily have a full report (ie: suspicious vehicle seen in a neighborhood wouldn't have a report unless they found the vehicle and there was something going on). Some departments, however, seemed to leave things out or be so vague in the blotter that you wouldn't think to ask to see an actual report. One in particular would leave out things they didn't want reported or so the rumour mill suggested (often). Some departments were so open that they would give us full reports without our asking (even in one case where a kid had stolen things from the police department itself).

Do the run sheets you are speaking about have every minute incident for every day, from all the police beats? I haven't seen them so I'm just wondering what they look like (sorry if someone linked them and I missed it).

Sailorsgirl--I posted them on the 2nd page of this thread. Here's the link: (http://www.garcosheriff.com/sheriffs_activity_log.html) Take a look and tell me what you think.

 

[SyraKelly]

Welcome Melissa Dawn-You did great & excellent post!

 

[ellabella]

I'm not sure how to say this in the right way but here goes..

I do think she was harassed( and possibly stalked) but I think it was just a culminating factor. I also think that COMBINED with the reaction(perhaps overboard? maybe not, we don't know yet I guess) of everyone was just too much to bear.


Am I correct in thinking one of the things she suffered from was abdominal migraines? I'd never heard of these until this past christmas season when I was stuck in the ER overnight with a fellow young female patient who suffered from them and was there with her mother.

I will never get the sounds that came out of her out of my mind, that girl was being tortured by her own body, every fibre of her being. It was heart wrenching and honestly probably one o the worst experiences I've witnessed in the ER.

 

[kpdx]

TI also mentioned on the radio that ME found Lorazepam in MI's tox. Lorazepam is an anti-anxiety medication typically prescribed in low doses to be used as needed.

 

[MayraMM]

Hope I did that "quoting" correct, I'm still figuring out how to actually participate.

You done good! Welcome. I, too transcribe (for MModal, formally MQ), but I've come across porphyria a few times, always in relation to abdominal pain. That was the reason why that DX was entertained. It turned out she had chronic carbon monoxide poisoning from a faulty flue in a house she had lived in.

This is the 3rd thread on this topic, so you have a lot of reading to get caught up on. There's also a thread for "evidence", pictures, etc.