CO - The Stalking and Mysterious Death of Morgan Ingram #4

[Sonya610]

She talks about one's bf licking the mask off one's face and ends her post writing something about unless they prefer to being beat off.
You don't find that provocative? Maybe you're more naive than I am; or maybe I have a dirty mind!

No you don't have a dirty mind, the meaning was quite obvious and a bit unusual for a beauty/crafts blog.

 

[shellbee]

I had posted back a page or two that the only thing I could find was that you can't really know for sure unless you know the time the pills were taken (in order to know how much of it had been metabolized by the time of death) and the time of death (not just between midnight and 5am for example, it would have to be that someone witnessed the death.) I don't believe it's even been said that she died after the EMTs got there or if she had been dead for a while and couldn't be revived.

I suspect Morgan died long before EMS arrived and was probably showing early signs of postmortem changes. I base this on the fact that TI said when paramedics arrived, there was an initial flurry of activity but it ceased almost as quickly as it began (paraphrasing). I was a paramedic for twenty plus years and what I'm reading between the lines is after assessing Morgan, EMS did not start ACLS. If I am correct this means she had all five signs of death and most importantly to my conclusion at least one "factor of death"; ie rigor, or livor mortis, injuries incompatible with life etc. Had she not shown one factor of death their dept. protocol probably would have required they start ACLS.

Please keep in mind I am not verified by ws as a paramedic so mods I understand if you need to delete this post.

Links for verification:
http://www.jems.com/news?section=Patient Care
http://www.ems1.com/ems-products/cpr-resuscitation/articles/

 

[SmoothOperator]

"That is THE head." Maybe. It's exactly what popped up in my mind though. I lost sleep over it while wondering what to do with my observation.
I don't care if I'm wrong but feel nothing is too dumb to at least look into.

lol..youre cracking me up Woe..and I hope you dont think Im making fun or believe it to be dumb..not my thoughts or intent..strictly one of tbose phrases that just catches or grabs you and then gets you giggling..once the tickle box is turned over..then for me its just forgetta bout it!..I'll be laughing for the rest of the night over it..

 

[Woe.be.gone]

Unless we can see the evidence, there is no way to sleuth this case.
I'd like to know if the Ingrams considered anyone else as a perp other than the guy down the street or an unknown stranger stalker. If they have, how did they rule out those people as possible contributors to Morgan's demise. The answer can't be that he would never do a thing like that either.

Keeping in mind we don't know the ex bf's name or where he lives or anything, imo the night Morgan died he'd be the one with the easiest access into the home and her room. She may have even invited him in. That's why I can't stop thinking about wanting to know the circumstances surrounding their breakup and the reason he made himself present at her house again. Was it he who desired to see her again? Could he have cared less which is why he could handle going to help her father but it was she who felt hurt all over again by seeing him?

We know the drugs killed Morgan and that they weren't a build up but one deadly dose. She either took the drugs or someone who gained access to her administered them to her some way.

To me the least likely scenario is that it was a stranger or even the guy down the street. Depending on what the experts say it's more likely the drugs entered her system before she returned home (unless she took them herself). So, if she ingested the drug at 8pm let's say, how long would it take before they killed her?

Someone mentioned Claritin versus Zyrtec earlier. One of the ads Zyrtec uses is that Claritin takes three hours before it provides relief yet Zyrtec begins working within the first hour. How long would it take before the high dose of Elavil would kick in and render one useless? If it's within the first hour, she'd almost have to have had it administered after she got home.
Can this be answered without knowing the exact number of pills or the way the drug entered her body?

 

[K.jill]

That head does seem to be a unique shape.
....not trying to be provocative....

 

[Woe.be.gone]

No you don't have a dirty mind, the meaning was quite obvious and a bit unusual for a beauty/crafts blog.

I believe it's called a double entendre. That's how I interpreted it anyway.

 

[AbbeyR]

Re: Letter to the newspaper
http://morganingram.com/wordpress/?p=1333

This post pretty much summarizes many of the issues people have stated here about this case. On first reading, it is a highly emotional letter that leads you to want to advocate for the victims in this story - Morgan and her family. In her comments, mom seems incredulous that the newspaper would not print it. She posts it on the blog (twice), the second time with a title that asks - Is your own daughter safe?

And yet, read the post again, and it's impossible not to see some glaring contradictions. Here's a review of the main points:

The letter slams the reporter of the original article, claiming that he has misconstrued the facts of Morgan's case. It's the responsibility of reporters, the writer argues, "to know if you are reporting facts instead of what someone else wants you to report as in the death of Morgan". The short piece goes on make the following assertions:

• Morgan's death was reported as a suicide, not a murder because of the incompetence and/ or corruption of the County Coroner's and Law Enforcement agencies
  
• Morgan's death is only one example of many deaths that may be inaccurately reported as a suicide, because the majority of the investigative effort into suicides is put into finding excuses as to why the death is not a homicide rather than investigating it.
  
• Newspapers/ reporters are then used as "tools of deceit by elected officials with their own agendas"

The reporter was negligent because

• He reported the coroner's verdict of suicide without questioning its logic.
  If Morgan was a depressed teenager, it might be 'logical' to investigate the possibility of suicide. But Morgan was not the 'type' to commit suicide. For example, she was angry at being stalked. Angry people do not commit suicide.
  
• he wrote that (according the report) there were no signs of assault. However he was not there, so how does he know if the coroner even looked.
  
• he did not report on the use of amitriptyline as a known 'tool of date rape and murder'.
  
• he 'neglected to mention' that the coroner's office only decided to reclassify the death as a suicide "in retaliation for her family and friends pushing for justice"
  
• As a result, "with one reckless, ill written article [he] has attempted to destroy the Ingram families efforts" to raise awareness

The article stresses that when writing about an investigative matter, it is one's responsibility to fact find, to see all pertinent documents pertaining to the circumstances prior to and after the death, instead of "taking a hand fed story and running with it, regardless of damage said story could cause."

If some of the 'facts' here are in question, I think we can all agree on that last point.

 

[AndiLA]

What? So there was no incident that prompted the case to be upgraded to felony stalking? It just randomly happened? Or am I missing something?

 

[K.jill]

How certain are we that the drugs in Morgan's system entered in liquid form?
If they were in a liquid form who would be able to access these meds in liquid form? I don't see her crushing them up and drinking them, the taste would probably be awful. And, if you are killing yourself why bother crushing them...so it would be faster. Faster acting but IMO very hard to get down. If it was an injection I can't see it being self inflicted, there would be a syringe next to her.
So who could get those meds in liquid form??? Wouldn't this narrow down the suspect pool?

 

[Woe.be.gone]

AbbeyR, all good points and the answer may lie somewhere in the middle.

 

[mysterygirl]

From what I have read...........they considered anyone and everyone a suspect.

Taking notes about people out of town, cars present, lights on etc......

But the signs kept pointing to one person.

When you have an actual trail leading from your house to one three house down, it's not that hard to figure out something is awry.

 

[raine1212]

What? So there was no incident that prompted the case to be upgraded to felony stalking? It just randomly happened? Or am I missing something?

If I am understanding correctly 1st offense is a class 5, but wouldn't you need to catch the person to charge as a class 5. or could thay say class 5 when they are caught.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

I suspect Morgan died long before EMS arrived and was probably showing early signs of postmortem changes. I base this on the fact that TI said when paramedics arrived, there was an initial flurry of activity but it ceased almost as quickly as it began (paraphrasing). I was a paramedic for twenty plus years and what I'm reading between the lines is after assessing Morgan, EMS did not start ACLS. If I am correct this means she had all five signs of death and most importantly to my conclusion at least one "factor of death"; ie rigor, or livor mortis, injuries incompatible with life etc. Had she not shown one factor of death their dept. protocol probably would have required they start ACLS.

Please keep in mind I am not verified by ws as a paramedic so mods I understand if you need to delete this post.

Links for verification:
http://www.jems.com/news?section=Patient Care
http://www.ems1.com/ems-products/cpr-resuscitation/articles/

It would be good to know the TOD. That, I believe is not too difficult for professionals to determine because of rigor and other factors. Please I pray they at least paid attention to TOD. Did they? That would be a good starting point so to back up the time she may have ingested the main drug that caused death.

 

[mysterygirl]

How certain are we that the drugs in Morgan's system entered in liquid form?
If they were in a liquid form who would be able to access these meds in liquid form? I don't see her crushing them up and drinking them, the taste would probably be awful. And, if you are killing yourself why bother crushing them...so it would be faster. Faster acting but IMO very hard to get down. If it was an injection I can't see it being self inflicted, there would be a syringe next to her.
So who could get those meds in liquid form??? Wouldn't this narrow down the suspect pool?

The ranch perhaps.

Two vets wrote the parents about stocking liquid ami AND flexeril.

I found one site that mentioned liquid ami up to one hundred mg per ml.

So a mere 10cc would be ONE THOUSAND MG.

And, they come in flavors.

 

[MayraMM]

How certain are we that the drugs in Morgan's system entered in liquid form?
If they were in a liquid form who would be able to access these meds in liquid form? I don't see her crushing them up and drinking them, the taste would probably be awful. And, if you are killing yourself why bother crushing them...so it would be faster. Faster acting but IMO very hard to get down. If it was an injection I can't see it being self inflicted, there would be a syringe next to her.
So who could get those meds in liquid form??? Wouldn't this narrow down the suspect pool?

This is why I've been asking for someone to show me where it says anything about no pill fragment in the gastric content or where it says anything about an injection or liquid in the second ME report. I can't find any mention of that and we haven't seen the first report, so as of now, we (or at least I) really haven't ruled out any form of delivery, except that we know some medication ended up in the gastric contents. Anything else is anecdotal.

 

[AbbeyR]

What? So there was no incident that prompted the case to be upgraded to felony stalking? It just randomly happened? Or am I missing something?

Here's an explanation of felony stalking:

Per the statute, there are three forms of stalking. The first involves the combination of credible threat and acts such as following. The second involves a credible threat combined with any form of repeated communications, and the third does not require a credible threat, but rather repeated acts such as following or communications resulting in serious emotional distress. In all instances, the acts may be directed toward the alleged victim or third parties who have specific associations with the victim. An act is “repeated” if it occurs more than once.

http://www.lawinfoboulder.com/areas_criminal_litigation/stalking.html

I don't know for sure, but I think it means that 'in theory', if there was a suspect and the case went to court, it would qualify as a felony stalking case, because there were reports of 'repeated acts' i.e. police were called to the residence several times.

 

[JaimeSommers]

What? So there was no incident that prompted the case to be upgraded to felony stalking? It just randomly happened? Or am I missing something?

We can't quote the blog, so your best bet is to read tonight's post. It sounds like the number of incidents is the trigger -- once the number of incidents reached a certain point, it became classified as felony stalking. That's how I interpreted it anyway. YMMV

 

[AndiLA]

If I am understanding correctly 1st offense is a class 5, but wouldn't you need to catch the person to charge as a class 5. or could thay say class 5 when they are caught.

If that were the case (class 5, first incident, no suspect apprehended), why wasn't this considered a felony case from the get go? I think a person must be arrested and accused to be charged with a class 5 felony stalking charge, otherwise, this case would have been upgraded sooner than 6 weeks after the alleged stalking incidences began.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

From what I have read...........they considered anyone and everyone a suspect.

Taking notes about people out of town, cars present, lights on etc......

But the signs kept pointing to one person.

When you have an actual trail leading from your house to one three house down, it's not that hard to figure out something is awry.

You're talking about the identity of the stalker alone. I'm talking about the people who Morgan came in contact with the days and especially the day before she died.

Herein is the error imo and that's assuming it had to be the stalker who killed her. Have the other people been ruled out? Not neighbors but anyone and everyone. Afterall, Morgan had been away from home all day into the night.

 

[AndiLA]

Here's an explanation of felony stalking:


http://www.lawinfoboulder.com/areas_criminal_litigation/stalking.html

I don't know for sure, but I think it means that 'in theory', if there was a suspect and the case went to court, it would qualify as a felony stalking case, because there were reports of 'repeated acts' i.e. police were called to the residence several times.

That fits this scenario and makes the most sense! Thanks for doing the legwork!