CO - The Stalking and Mysterious Death of Morgan Ingram #5

[FrayedKnot]

Can anybody answer this......if the parents want this investigated, the first step would be to get the COD changed? The LE wont even touch this without a change of COD, right?

I really don't know...so I'm curious

I believe that's true.

Rebecca Zahau's family is encountering the same thing right now, I believe. Because her death was ruled a suicide, LE will/can not reopen the investigation.

I do not think they are having much luck with either avenue.

 

[MayraMM]

I was shocked by the "18 pills of 25 mg" in the official rpt (going by memory, I'm probably wrong) based on all the discussion here about how the huge amount in her system and how it would take so many more pills...and then all the research on ami for animals...

The corresponds with the math I did about a million years ago when I noticed the ng/mL, but everyone told me I was doing it wrong, so I assumed I was doing it wrong, too. Guess not.

 

[polly1]

Oh, please don't lump me in with those who keep hammering that we can't discuss anything, really, because it's not a formal case or that the evidence is from one source. I have never said that or inferred any of that.

You said that in few cases do we have facts. I was simply pointing out that IMO, that's just not the case at all.

When I see what appears to be a misstatement, I respond. Others have done the same when I have made a statement they felt was incorrect. I've learned from that.

And yes, Ms. Ingram is crying out for help but instead of hiring an attorney and demanding all police reports, investigative notes etc., as I know she realizes by now she's entitled to and which are free, since she reads this site, she is writing a compelling, emotional blog.

That's cool but people have given her solid suggestions that she has not accepted. Her reasoning for not even trying to get police reports is unfathomable to me, especially at this point. I mean, I really do understand wading through grief through an emotionally charged blog about your beloved, deceased child, but either you want to investigate her death or not. You start that process by gathering evidence and enlisting professionals to help determine if LE did it's job or if not, whether higher authorities need to get involved.

I am trying to help. I have given suggestions: Get the evidence and hire an attorney.

As to the police, I am positive that their legal department do not want them opening their traps about a closed case that is being brought to the forefront again by a distraught and grieving mother. Either way, they lose. If they hammer on every reason why they feel there was no evidence of stalking or murder, they can make mom and/or daughter seem crazy and that's just cruel. If they keep their mouths shut, people may think they are hiding things and in that way they lose. But, it's the lesser of two evils.

The question is not why the police have not been more vocal about their reasoning, their investigation, etc. It's why mom has not been more proactive in accumulating documents to show there was, indeed, evidence that this could be more than natural causes or suicide, that LE and the first coroner dropped the ball and that the case needs to be reopened by a different authority and LE's incompetence investigated.

I agree that it's dense to think egos don't get in the way of finding the truth. It happens all the time. Small time LE departments can be the worst when it comes to that. But the ball is in mom's court, not LE's. :moo:

I think the reason the LE and the ME are not responding is, b/c if you search for local media coverage where the Ingrams live, you'll find very little. I've looked for even letters to the editor and there have been none in my search, neither for or against the Ingrams.

I think the mom's blog is building a case for her daughter that may or may not be based on facts, but the scary thing is----think of our presidential candidates for a moment and how they spread lies, half truths, and let them hang out there for the general public to consume. If it's repeated long enough and loud enough, people will begin to believe what they say. So think again about the blog: If what the Ingrams believe is true and they say it long enough and loud enough, then when it garners enough national attention, people will likely believe the Ingrams way before any EVIDENCE even makes it to the sunshine.
This is dangerous, IMO. It's a manipulation, whether it's intentional or subconscious or just a fact of the life of a engrossing blog. http://www.websleuths.com/forums/images/smilies/what.gif

So back to the point: I agree, the ball is in the Ingrams' court. No reason or CAUSE for the LE to release anything.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

The ME also mentioned her fingernails, and doesn't say that any were cut.

Anyway, her last texts would give us an idea if she went to bed or stayed up texting someone. She could have still been clothed.

I was wondering if the time lapse, and therefore the time for lividity to set in while she was on her back, wasn't used by the parents to clean up. That's often the case in suicides. The family doesn't want embarrassing items found, or whatever. They call other family members. Gather their mental fortitude to deal with what lies ahead, etc. It would also explain why mom's initial reaction on finding M was not of murder, despite the stalking. If there was a note or other sign left by M, mom wouldn't question the COD until it was suggested later.

Just my opinion, but it would fit well with the autopsy findings.

In pictures, I tried to see M's fingernails. From what I can tell she kept them rather short. It's difficult to see them in all the photos though and I don't know the dates of the photos as fingernails can change from time-to-time. Still, has anybody else noticed?

To have diagonal breaks or tears, you'd think the nail would have to rise above the fingertip to begin with for all three of them to go like that.
This is a point that bugs me because TI said her sister noticed this at the wake (or ceremony), but TI couldn't bring herself to look at Morgan.

Do they take pictures during an autopsy or after a person is layed out (before peeps come to view)? Did other people, besides the sister, notice this too? If not, why bring it up at all?

I do remember reading in another autopsy the descriptive remarks - oh, it was Kathleen Savio, and it stated that the fingernails were neat and clean and I think the shortish length was indicated. Because someone claimed she kept them long but maybe due to becoming a nursing student she had changed them to short and plain not long before she was murdered. Anyway, I was surprised they went into that much detail regarding one's fingernails. Except for when they suspect homicide and want to see if DNA evidence exists under them.

 

[concernedmother]

I think the reason the LE and the ME are not responding is, b/c if you search for local media coverage where the Ingrams live, you'll find very little. I've looked for even letters to the editor and there have been none in my search, neither for or against the Ingrams.

I think the mom's blog is building a case for her daughter that may or may not be based on facts, but the scary thing is----think of our presidential candidates for a moment and how they spread lies, half truths, and let them hang out there for the general public to consume. If it's repeated long enough and loud enough, people will begin to believe what they say. So think again about the blog: If what the Ingrams believe is true and they say it long enough and loud enough, then when it garners enough national attention, people will likely believe the Ingrams way before any EVIDENCE even makes it to the sunshine.
This is dangerous, IMO. It's a manipulation, whether it's intentional or subconscious or just a fact of the life of a engrossing blog. http://www.websleuths.com/forums/images/smilies/what.gif

So back to the point: I agree, the ball is in the Ingrams' court. No reason or CAUSE for the LE to release anything.

Well the really bad part is naming people you think committed a murder.

 

[SmoothOperator]

I was shocked by the "18 pills of 25 mg" in the official rpt (going by memory, I'm probably wrong) based on all the discussion here about how the huge amount in her system and how it would take so many more pills...and then all the research on ami for animals...

But with it possibly being not as massive of a dose as we believed imo that does in a sense reopen the possibility of using liquid ami which locals vets have confirmed they carry as well as even sell over the counter pper se..opens the door about the known easy access to the horse meds at the ranch..meds that were actually kept in the same office as the person we know who works there..in now learning the dose that killed her wasnt some massive amount imo it once again puts the option on the table for liquid ami to have come from the ranch where there is no restrictions from accessing the chest and refrigerator of meds for the horses...
Just sayin.

 

[marycarney]

It seems to me the story has now come full circle, and yet one fact remains:

This family has tragically lost their lovely and talented daughter. And for this, I sympathize and offer my condolences.

 

[MelissaDawn]

I'm just catching up on the latest news, almost missed we had access to official documents, but I just have to say - WTH?!?!? I hardly ever go out, total homebody, and the ONE night I go out is when we get the reports I've been waiting all week for. Okay, I'm going back now to check everything I missed by thinking it was important for me to attempt to have a social life, LOL!

 

[Woe.be.gone]

In reading the new blg entry they were still not 100% sure the poi was the stalker, yet. I'm ready to know when and how they became positive. I'm almost sure that the person captured with the cam had hair showing under a doo rag and that the hair looked nothing like their suspect's. Wonder what the cops thought.

OMG! "The head" guy. He might wear one of those - just saying.

 

[Cazzie]

But with it possibly being not as massive of a dose as we believed imo that does in a sense reopen the possibility of using liquid ami which locals vets have confirmed they carry as well as even sell over the counter pper se..opens the door about the known easy access to the horse meds at the ranch..meds that were actually kept in the same office as the person we know who works there..in now learning the dose that killed her wasnt some massive amount imo it once again puts the option on the table for liquid ami to have come from the ranch where there is no restrictions from accessing the chest and refrigerator of meds for the horses...
Just sayin.

Yes.

TY for bringing me back to questioning everything.

 

[shellbee]

A few random thoughts:

Cotinine? Does this indicate she smoked or could second hand smoke cause this.

She wasn't underweight. 5'3" 115.

The doctor seems very open to changing manner of death if evidence comes to light.

I was wrong about EMS not starting ACLS.

I wonder why there's no time of death est.

 

[MayraMM]

A few random thoughts:

Cotinine? Does this indicate she smoked or could second hand smoke cause this.

She wasn't underweight. 5'3" 115.

The doctor seems very open to changing manner of death if evidence comes to light.

I was wrong about EMS not starting ACLS.

I wonder why there's no time of death est.

TOD unknown, but she was pronounced at 8:15, so there was a couple of hours between her being found and first responders getting there.

 

[concernedmother]

TOD unknown, but she was pronounced at 8:15, so there was a couple of hours between her being found and first responders getting there.

Wonder why? They found her at 5? Wouldnt you just call 911 right away?

 

[polly1]

You are welcome, this will open all the doors that we needed.

Thanks so much! So this report was always available to us! It was legally obtained. Awesome sleuthing! :rocker::seeya:

 

[raine1212]

Thanks so much! So this report was always available to us! It was legally obtained. Awesome sleuthing! :rocker::seeya:

yes it was, CO has open public law
also i am typing in the dark again...lol...hubby in bed

 

[concernedmother]

Thanks so much! So this report was always available to us! It was legally obtained. Awesome sleuthing! :rocker::seeya:

Arent you glad you joined WS? Amazing site.

 

[LadyL]

can anyone answer, are there usually TOD estimates in autopsy reports? I thought it was standard but I guess not?

 

[steff13]

I noticed that too. And her nails had clear polish with white tips. I would think any needles inserted under the fingernails would cause some bleeding and would be noticable.

I would think there would be some bruising in the nail bed. I agree, something like that should have been visible.

Sent from my VS840 4G using Tapatalk 2

 

[mysterygirl]

I'm not convinced of suicide.

This report didn't change that much for me.

If I remember correctly she had 10mg and 25mg pills in her old bottles.

I find it hard to believe that petite girl popped at least 18 pills on an empty stomach and didn't throw it up.

That's just me.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

But with it possibly being not as massive of a dose as we believed imo that does in a sense reopen the possibility of using liquid ami which locals vets have confirmed they carry as well as even sell over the counter pper se..opens the door about the known easy access to the horse meds at the ranch..meds that were actually kept in the same office as the person we know who works there..in now learning the dose that killed her wasnt some massive amount imo it once again puts the option on the table for liquid ami to have come from the ranch where there is no restrictions from accessing the chest and refrigerator of meds for the horses...
Just sayin.

We haven't heard anything about Morgan's life at the stables. How often did she go see TC? Did she feed her horse every day or do the stable peeps do that as you pay a boarding fee. Did the stable owners notice any drugs missing or were they that loosely regulated that anyone could access them. Did the amount used have to be signed out indicating which horse needed the drug?

It's hard to believe drugs like that are so loosely guarded when many people would have access to them. Geesh.

The other day, I also wondered if the trails in the berm could be caused by horseback riders cutting through to ?. Is that even possible?
It looks like some peeps have fences with more yard beyond their fences so it wouldn't be like trotting your horse through someone's backyard in order to take a shortcut.