Conrad Murray Trial - Closing Arguments 11-3-11

[madge]

Chernoff definitely looked like he'd had his guts punched out. The whole defense table looks shell shocked.

 

[~n/t~]

I predict a hung jury. Chernoff did a good job in raising reasonable doubt as to criminal negligence versus negligence and Walgren's rebuttal was flat and imo actually boosted Chernoff's closing by saying MJ could have administered the propofol.

MJ had some serious issues way before CM came into the picture. I thought Chernoff's statement of CM being a small fish in a big dirty pond was spot on. I've always felt that was the case from the very beginning and I agree with Chernoff that if it wasn't Michael Jackson, we wouldn't be here.

 

[bravowhisky]

I predict a hung jury. Chernoff did a good job in raising reasonable doubt as to criminal negligence versus negligence and Walgren's rebuttal was flat and imo actually boosted Chernoff's closing by saying MJ could have administered the propofol.

MJ had some serious issues way before CM came into the picture. I thought Chernoff's statement of CM being a small fish in a big dirty pond was spot on. I've always felt that was the case from the very beginning and I agree with Chernoff that if it wasn't Michael Jackson, we wouldn't be here.

Again, it doesn't matter if MJ self-administered anything. What matters is that a) MJ was under the medical care of CM, b) CM abandoned MJ, and c) CM's response to MJ's arrest was completely inexcusable, as was his deception to other medical providers. MJ could've shot up all the propofol in the room and CM would still be criminally negligent.

 

[katydid23]

I predict a hung jury. Chernoff did a good job in raising reasonable doubt as to criminal negligence versus negligence and Walgren's rebuttal was flat and imo actually boosted Chernoff's closing by saying MJ could have administered the propofol.

MJ had some serious issues way before CM came into the picture. I thought Chernoff's statement of CM being a small fish in a big dirty pond was spot on. I've always felt that was the case from the very beginning and I agree with Chernoff that if it wasn't Michael Jackson, we wouldn't be here.

I am kind of worried about that too. EVERYONE let MJ down, including himself. He afterall, hired this doctor to give him propofol every night. He should have checked also whether there was safety back up equipment ready in case of an accident. And of course, bottom line, he should not have even asked to use it at home anyway. THAT DOES NOT LET MURRAY OFF THE HOOK. But I do think the jury might give him a lesser verdict because of the shared negligence.

 

[octobermoon]

I predict a hung jury. Chernoff did a good job in raising reasonable doubt as to criminal negligence versus negligence and Walgren's rebuttal was flat and imo actually boosted Chernoff's closing by saying MJ could have administered the propofol.

MJ had some serious issues way before CM came into the picture. I thought Chernoff's statement of CM being a small fish in a big dirty pond was spot on. I've always felt that was the case from the very beginning and I agree with Chernoff that if it wasn't Michael Jackson, we wouldn't be here.

I don't see it the same as you, but maybe some on the jury will.

I agree that MJ had issues with drugs in the past and found it all too easy to get Dr.'s to give him what he wanted legally. But even if MJ was some unknown patient in one of CM's clinics and he abandoned him/her, he would still be guilty in my eyes.

 

[borndem]

Walgren is so cool and just goes right on with closing arguments.


IMO

And the passion, ocean!! Oh my!!

Did you hear that little click in his throat?? I had a boss that would do that very rarely -- when he was boiling mad (like in a mtg where you were supposed to be courteous) and he would speak like that. Only those who knew him well knew what it was or probably even noticed it.

I think Walgren was enraged -- at both Cherny's closing and at CM for doing what he did to a human being. He may not get a lot of sleep tonight, either.
:hero:

 

[katydid23]

Again, it doesn't matter if MJ self-administered anything. What matters is that a) MJ was under the medical care of CM, b) CM abandoned MJ, and c) CM's response to MJ's arrest was completely inexcusable, as was his deception to other medical providers. MJ could've shot up all the propofol in the room and CM would still be criminally negligent.

But there are problems with the above, imo.

a]MJ was under the care of CM because MJ AGREED to have propofol given to him in his home.

b] there is some reasonable doubt about that. IF in fact he only gave him that smaller amount of P, then he may have thought he was out of danger, and just resting comfortably,which was the usual situation. Afterall, he did do this safely for 2 months straight.
c] that is true, but is it civil and not criminal?
d]are we sure it is criminally negligent? I am not so sure because MJ himself asked for Propofol.

 

[borndem]

Someone in the courtroom sneezed several times this morning.
Think it was Chernoff? I wonder if he's sick.
He sounded like it, before I left to go to the dentist.

You're probably right about that, peace -- like him or not, he's been busting his butt on this thing, too. And all of his battles -- including today -- have been uphill. And he had Flan as his 2nd. So he had probably not slept well or eaten well, and had a lot of anxiety over this thing -- especially if he felt his client was a guilty, lying fraud.

 

[MsBashterd]

Hi guy's of course I had to take a conf call this pm and missed the defense now I am forced to watch the globe twins on HLN to catch up. JVM just said that she wasnt sure who made the up her or the DT If their is no drip you must aquit........Dear heavens did the DT really say that or is she being JVM trying to be funny again.

Sorry havent had a chance to read back yet. And......what do you guy's think how did the DT do anything juicy...trust you all's opinion so much more than these foam domes on HLN. Thanxs you guy's as always rock

 

[legalmania]

I think one of the best analogies was said by one of the host ( can't remember who) but they said giving propoful as a sleep aid is the same as giving someone chemo for a hair cut.

 

[bravowhisky]

But there are problems with the above, imo.

a]MJ was under the care of CM because MJ AGREED to have propofol given to him in his home.

b] there is some reasonable doubt about that. IF in fact he only gave him that smaller amount of P, then he may have thought he was out of danger, and just resting comfortably,which was the usual situation. Afterall, he did do this safely for 2 months straight.
c] that is true, but is it civil and not criminal?
d]are we sure it is criminally negligent? I am not so sure because MJ himself asked for Propofol.

I don't think it matters if MJ asked for propofol or not. CM should have said no or walked away. As Walgren pointed out, it was an inappropriate employer/employee relationship, not doctor/patient as it should have been.

 

[octobermoon]

Hi guy's of course I had to take a conf call this pm and missed the defense now I am forced to watch the globe twins on HLN to catch up. JVM just said that she wasnt sure who made the up her or the DT If their is no drip you must aquit........Dear heavens did the DT really say that or is she being JVM trying to be funny again.

Sorry havent had a chance to read back yet. And......what do you guy's think how did the DT do anything juicy...trust you all's opinion so much more than these foam domes on HLN. Thanxs you guy's as always rock

JVM didn't make that up. Sheesh! Some caller a few weeks ago did on Vinnie or Ryan's show.

The DT blamed everyone from the chef to the prosecution team. Then ended abruptly and quietly I thought.

 

[~n/t~]

I think one of the best analogies was said by one of the host ( can't remember who) but they said giving propoful as a sleep aid is the same as giving someone chemo for a hair cut.

That makes absolutely no sense.

 

[outofstatelawyer]

That makes absolutely no sense.

Yes, it does. It's similar to the expression of killing a fly with a sledgehammer.

 

[outofstatelawyer]

I am kind of worried about that too. EVERYONE let MJ down, including himself. He afterall, hired this doctor to give him propofol every night. He should have checked also whether there was safety back up equipment ready in case of an accident. And of course, bottom line, he should not have even asked to use it at home anyway. THAT DOES NOT LET MURRAY OFF THE HOOK. But I do think the jury might give him a lesser verdict because of the shared negligence.

There is no "lesser verdict". And the law of involuntary manslaughter is very clear as it applies to this case.

 

[borndem]

Boy that is the truth, it is amazing that MJ didn't die sooner under CM's care.

Just like Russian roulette -- the IV line a bit too open, a bit too much lorazepam, his tongue rolling back in his neck & no CM to hear or fix it. Any little thing... just waiting to happen...

 

[legalmania]

I know this is a little ot but wouldn't Michael Walgren and Deborah Brazil make the cutest couple. I don't know their personal background but I just think they look good together.

 

[MsBashterd]

JVM didn't make that up. Sheesh! Some caller a few weeks ago did on Vinnie or Ryan's show.

The DT blamed everyone from the chef to the prosecution team. Then ended abruptly and quietly I thought.

Thanxs I hadnt heard that before and wish I still hadnt heard it.

I did just see that they tried the whole everyone lied to make more money (not an exact quote) Alverez was only being offered 9,000 in the begining but now his story is worth half a million. Insert big eyeroll now :innocent:.

 

[borndem]

Predictions on how long it will take the jury to come to a decision?

Done by sundown, CA time, tomorrow....


<gnaw, gnaw>

 

[katydid23]

I know this is a little ot but wouldn't Michael Walgren and Deborah Brazil make the cutest couple. I don't know their personal background but I just think they look good together.

Walgren is married with 2 children, so don't wish for that scenario. lol