Coronavirus COVID-19 - Global Health Pandemic #86

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El Paso hospitals reached a record number of COVID-19 patients Monday as intensive care units hit overcapacity, officials said.

As of Monday morning, there were 978 people hospitalized for COVID-19, including 273 in intensive care and 234 on ventilators, city-county public health officials said.

El Paso, Texas, COVID-19 patient hospitalizations break records

What? I thought the percentage of folks on ventilators was waaaaaaaaaaaaaay down. I'm not understanding this change in percentages from what was/is expected from stats from Dr. Campbell and Dr. Seheultz.

This is too surprising to me. That's now what we have seen and what is going on there?

From your link repeated... "As of Monday morning, there were 978 people hospitalized for COVID-19, including 273 in intensive care and 234 on ventilators, city-county public health officials said."

That stat is just too extraordinary for me... huh?
 
What? I thought the percentage of folks on ventilators was waaaaaaaaaaaaaay down. I'm not understanding this change in percentages from what was/is expected from stats from Dr. Campbell and Dr. Seheultz.

This is too surprising to me. That's now what we have seen and what is going on there?

From your link repeated... "As of Monday morning, there were 978 people hospitalized for COVID-19, including 273 in intensive care and 234 on ventilators, city-county public health officials said."

That stat is just too extraordinary for me... huh?

El Paso's morgue is filling up, too ...... :(

The county morgue usually has 20 to 40 bodies at one time but currently has about 94 bodies, Rascon said at Monday's virtual meeting of the El Paso County Commissioners' Court.
El Paso COVID-19 patients in hospitals at record levels
 
More COVID-19 deaths linked to super-spreader event at Charlotte church — The Charlotte Observer

Two more people have died of coronavirus-related complications tied to October convocation events at a Charlotte church, bringing the death toll to at least eight. “

“There are now 187 confirmed cases, with only six new infections reported since Friday.”
—————
“Harris imposed the strict measure on Oct. 24 to slow the spread of COVID-19, warning that church leaders had failed to cooperate and comply with contact tracing efforts. The health department has attempted to reach 269 close contacts.

An attorney representing the United House of Prayer blasted Mecklenburg’s “overbroad” decision to clamp down on religious gatherings. And a church leader, Apostle Ronnie White, said the closures were distressing, particularly in “difficult times” amid the coronavirus pandemic.

“Daily services are fundamental to our beliefs, and this result preserves our right to worship God together as a community in the manner that is sacred and meaningful to us,” White said in a statement released by church attorneys last Friday.”
——————
And what about preserving the life and health of your congregation? That’s not a fundamental belief?
:(
 
Yes, and to add to that:

“Nobody is safe until we are all safe”.

-Dr. Mike Ryan




I am optimistic they will find the source, as it took them a year to find the source of MERS (dromedary camels). Here’s to hoping.

I have many ideas on the source, many of which I’ve shared. Top of my list, in addition to various wet markets, is possibly those folks who go into the caves and scrape the bat dung for fertilizer, going in for bird’s nest soup, putting themselves right in the middle of these live bats..etc...I am far from an expert on zoonotic spillover, but we do know they found SARS in the caves of Yunnan.

Quick link for reference:
Bat cave solves mystery of deadly SARS virus — and suggests new outbreak could occur
2017

Also, Guangdong has been on my list since the start, for various reasons, jmo.


NPR did a series on COVID and I remember one researcher suggesting that in bats, the virus that preceded COVID-19, if that was the origin, might have already mutated so many times that it would not be possible to trace it.

Bats In China Carry 400+ Coronaviruses With The Potential ...
www.npr.org › sections › goatsandsoda › 2020/02/20 › n...

Feb 20, 2020 — The coronavirus outbreak in China seems like an unusual event. But scientists have found that similar viruses have been quietly jumping from ...


(If this is not the exact cite, I will research further. They did a multi-part series. )
 
@10ofRods, @dixiegirl1035, and other science nerds (I say this affectionately :wink: ), I just had a crazy thought:

Do you think it’s possible that a child could be more susceptible to zoonotic spillover than an adult? Weird question I know. I don’t know if that’s something that could even be answered, and would certainly be one for Dr. Maria.

eta:
There’s a reason why I ask this— I am recalling a video of children sitting and playing on top of the cages at a wet market.

more susceptible because the child's immune system is less developed or more susceptible because
a child has less of a concept of "hygiene" and could be putting things into his/her mouth? touching surfaces and then putting hands into the mouth? teething, etc.?
 
more susceptible because the child's immune system is less developed or more susceptible because
a child has less of a concept of "hygiene" and could be putting things into his/her mouth? touching surfaces and then putting hands into the mouth? teething, etc.?

There's another factor (I'll try to find citations later, would appreciate help if people want to google some of the research).

Apparently, the mucous membranes in children are more active. The production of snot (mucous) is an immune response, and children are great at it. Covid needs to get to the lining of the lungs and use the ACE-2 receptor pathway to get into the lungs in order to really replicate in huge numbers.

So, the active snot response of kids protects them against covid. Then, their lungs do not expel with as much force as 16+ people (so they don't transmit as well).

I don't think it has much to do with hygiene. The studies of touch transfer of virions is similar to what we find with DNA. Every cell in your body has your DNA, but you don't deposit much in places you don't go often. Virions that have landed on skin are already deteriorating and while kids do touch each toys that others have touched very often, it's still less virions than if someone is breathing (and kids seem to have a strong immune response to covid before it ever gets to their lungs).

I mean, hygiene is a bit of it - but kids just don't seem to transmit it to other kids, caretakers or parents as much as late teens and up do.

Infants who are teething have not (even once that I know of) been diagnosed with covid. In fact, very few kids get it from their parents and there is not one documented transmission of Covid among kids through touch (even in the US - where most pre-schools are operating in two modes: staff wears masks; staff not wearing masks - kids never wear masks and do their usual things). I don't know of any cases under age 5 - except for 1 newborn whose mother was positive. Most positive mothers do not give birth to positive infants (apparently - I haven't checked for at least a month).

Pre-schools are simply not spreading Covid very much or at all. A pre-school teacher is more likely to get it from the grocery store or a clinic or her/his family members...

In fact, the whole emphasis on hygiene in regard to Covid is over-stated. Adults should surely worry if they've gotten some virions in their own nose and then wipe their noses on their hands or a kleenex and do not go wash immediately (because now you have live virions on your hands - you'll now get them in your own mouth and nose, rinse and repeat, etc).

Children simply aren't transmitting this virus as we would have expected.
 
More COVID-19 deaths linked to super-spreader event at Charlotte church — The Charlotte Observer

Two more people have died of coronavirus-related complications tied to October convocation events at a Charlotte church, bringing the death toll to at least eight. “

“There are now 187 confirmed cases, with only six new infections reported since Friday.”
—————
“Harris imposed the strict measure on Oct. 24 to slow the spread of COVID-19, warning that church leaders had failed to cooperate and comply with contact tracing efforts. The health department has attempted to reach 269 close contacts.

An attorney representing the United House of Prayer blasted Mecklenburg’s “overbroad” decision to clamp down on religious gatherings. And a church leader, Apostle Ronnie White, said the closures were distressing, particularly in “difficult times” amid the coronavirus pandemic.

“Daily services are fundamental to our beliefs, and this result preserves our right to worship God together as a community in the manner that is sacred and meaningful to us,” White said in a statement released by church attorneys last Friday.”
——————
And what about preserving the life and health of your congregation? That’s not a fundamental belief?
:(

Interesting question. My mom's family was and still is fundamentalist Christian, but they still manage to have different answers to this. My mom would have thought risking anyone else's health, especially with foreknowledge of how to prevent it, was against her beliefs. She also thought she was supposed to pay attention to her own health (vaccines, preventive care, etc) because that's what God wanted (it should be His decision to take her to heaven - not her doing something to hasten events). Perhaps there were lessons she was supposed to learn, she said.

But her little sister took a different view. Both Mom and her sister had health problems ( my mom's were worse, IMO but - nevertheless - her sister didn't live as long as my mom ). Her sister felt that "going to the Lord and being in Heaven" was a goal - she wanted liberation with this life. I think most people would say she was depressed a lot. So my mom would not take pain killers of any kind (except Tylenol) despite really painful illnesses. She didn't want to die early due to erasing the pain that God had intended for her. She lived to 86.

Her sister was all on board for pain killers. Every kind. She said she was still in pain (probably a sign of addiction or dependence). My mom said she thought her sister would die early due to her use of pain killers - and mom was right (sister lived to 79).

A big difference? Not really. They each chose their own path through pain and illness, each thinking it was what God wanted. I'll never forget the sister's funeral (my mom was appalled by it) wherein the congregation rejoiced that she had left the world early to be with God. It was very well attended - sister went to a huge evangelical church, my mom sought out smaller, less vocal congregations.

At any rate, my aunt and her husband would definitely have not worn masks, and he would have gone anywhere that he could go without one, talking about God and singing and praying and laying on hands where needed.

My mom (and her mom) would have worn masks, they already washed their hands a lot, took all kinds of hygiene preparations on every vacation and picnic, did everything their doctors told them to do, chose stern and scientific doctors with fine reputations (not the quacks who prescribed all those painkillers to my aunt...)

I can still remember long car trips with my mom's mom (and her Lysol, and disinfected wash rags - before there were wipes - and different kinds for my hands than for her hands, etc). All of these people were very religious, church-founders, evangelicals, etc.
 
Glad that MSM has a shot from last night to do contact tracing as they did with the Rose Garden.

Can you count how many masks last night?

I only clearly see ONE.

View attachment 270553

https://twitter.com/HowardMortman/status/1323947095930404864

First thing I noticed too, Dixie.

Declining comment.

I’ve just turned it into a game of “Where’s Waldo“...

A study of the lungs of people who have died from Covid-19 has found persistent and extensive lung damage in most cases and may help doctors understand what is behind a syndrome known as “long Covid,” in which patients suffer ongoing symptoms for months.

Giacca said that, while his research team found no overt signs of viral infection or prolonged inflammation in other organs, they discovered “really vast destruction of the architecture of the lungs,” with healthy tissue “almost completely substituted by scar tissue.”

Lung damage found in Covid dead may shed light on 'long Covid,' study found

I recall a prior post ages ago which said there was even evidence of scarring in some asymptomatic cases, anyone remember that?
 
Last edited:
Document

from a local health department....
Great graphic!!!
 
First thing I noticed too, Dixie.

Declining comment.

I’ve just turned it into a game of Where’s Waldo...



I recall a prior post ages ago which said there was even evidence of scarring in some asymptomatic cases, anyone remember that?

Yes. The study is now well reviewed. 77-78% of covid survivors have either heart or lung scarring or both. Thickening of the cardiac wall (which is not considered a good thing, even if it's microscopic).

Of course, the asymptomatic/never seen by doctors are not included in that state and there is a correlation with symptoms. But even people with mild to moderate symptoms have that damage - and then, there are other organs (including blood vessels, brain, nerves) that are affected. To a degree not seen in the flus.

---------------
Looks like Earth may set a record today for Covid deaths. 9821 as I type this, but not all nations have reported yet - we're likely to hit 10,000 deaths.

Per day.

We're seeing almost half a million new cases per day (and rising). Even with the "advantage" that younger people are among the seriously ill (and are less likely to die), we should see the death rates going higher.

Overall death rate per case remains at 3%. I know that seems small (and it is, if we're talking polls or elections) but it's huge as a cause of death for humans.
 
Thousands Attend Halloween Party in Utah Against State COVID Guidelines: It's 'Disheartening' — People

“Utah officials estimate that there were anywhere from 3,000 to 10,000 people at a Halloween rave on Saturday night, as Utah sees some of its highest numbers of COVID-19 cases yet.”

“In the meantime, we are a community of people, all fighting a pandemic. In addition to our personal liberties, we also have community responsibilities," said David O. Leavitt, Utah County Attorney. "Each of us have a responsibility to reduce risk, lower spread, and do what we can to help combat this worldwide pandemic.”
-
Oh my gosh - 3,000 to 10,000 people!
That’s truly scary for Utah!
 
“Daily services are fundamental to our beliefs, and this result preserves our right to worship God together as a community in the manner that is sacred and meaningful to us,” White said in a statement released by church attorneys last Friday.”
——————
And what about preserving the life and health of your congregation? That’s not a fundamental belief?

Caring about the life and health of your congregation should be a fundamental belief. The second greatest commandment is to love our neighbor. So please excuse my snark, but my theory is that many of these churches receive many more contributions or tithes if the congregation is there in person. Everyone has the “right to worship God as a community” and can create that community on Zoom in a way that it still “sacred and meaningful” if they are serious about “preserving the health and life” of the congregation. JMO

We have been on Zoom since March, with the capacity to contribute online or ask someone to come by and pick up a check or cash, if we prefer...no pressure to contribute either way. Sure, we miss our hugs and being with each other. But no one has gotten Covid-19 (although a few have gone for tests as a precaution) and no one has died. Cases are rising in our area, so if any of us get sick it won’t be from risking our lives and the lives of our friends to gather in person.
MOO
 
Yes. The study is now well reviewed. 77-78% of covid survivors have either heart or lung scarring or both. Thickening of the cardiac wall (which is not considered a good thing, even if it's microscopic).

Of course, the asymptomatic/never seen by doctors are not included in that state and there is a correlation with symptoms. But even people with mild to moderate symptoms have that damage - and then, there are other organs (including blood vessels, brain, nerves) that are affected. To a degree not seen in the flus.

---------------
Looks like Earth may set a record today for Covid deaths. 9821 as I type this, but not all nations have reported yet - we're likely to hit 10,000 deaths.

Per day.

We're seeing almost half a million new cases per day (and rising). Even with the "advantage" that younger people are among the seriously ill (and are less likely to die), we should see the death rates going higher.

Overall death rate per case remains at 3%. I know that seems small (and it is, if we're talking polls or elections) but it's huge as a cause of death for humans.

Such sobering information. Thank you, 10 of Rods for keeping us updated. It really saddens my heart to think that globally 10,000 people are dying daily of this terrible virus. But even more concerning is how many people will have life long and debilitating conditions due the the damage the virus has wreaked on them, even if they survived the infection.
 
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