Coronavirus COVID-19 - Global Health Pandemic #86

[nhmemorymaker]

Wow, looking at that graph, it's pretty obvious that there is a huge spike of excess deaths unaccounted for.

We kind of knew where this was headed in Florida months ago, though. Remember the warning signs?

Florida Scientist Says She Was Fired For Not Manipulating COVID-19 Data

Florida governor under fire over claims state is 'cooking the books' on Covid-19

More recently:

Florida changes coronavirus data on the percent of tests coming back positive

Pretty constant contradictions down here. I personally do not believe we will ever get the true data. When you constantly redefine the rules and definitions... you just can't keep up anymore.

The governor long refused to release data on COVID-19 cases at individual nursing homes. He also fought the release of data that shows the number of people currently hospitalized with the virus. And the woman who created the state’s COVID-19 dashboard said DeSantis administration officials told her to manipulate the data to justify the first reopening in May.

Give us the real COVID-19 numbers, Gov. DeSantis | Editorial


Many many Floridians are just resigned to the fact, that much of the hiding of information WILL end up in the courts, but won't benefit accuracy of our public heath until after its too late.

When the Orlando Sentinel this month wanted a report from the White House Coronavirus Task Force that spoke of “early warning signs” for Florida, the DeSantis administration refused. The paper had to hire lawyers to get the report.

 

[nhmemorymaker]

Fact check: Medicare pays hospitals more money for COVID-19 patients

We rate the claim that hospitals get paid more if patients are listed as COVID-19 and on ventilators as TRUE.

Hospitals and doctors do get paid more for Medicare patients diagnosed with COVID-19 or if it's considered presumed they have COVID-19 absent a laboratory-confirmed test, and three times more if the patients are placed on a ventilator to cover the cost of care and loss of business resulting from a shift in focus to treat COVID-19 cases.

Hospitals are paid more for Medicare patients confirmed or presumed to have coronavirus

"The CARES Act authorized a temporary 20 percent increase in reimbursements from Medicare for COVID-19 patients to account for both anticipated and unanticipated increases in the cost of care for these medically complex patients," explained Dr. Summer McGee, dean of the School of Health Sciences at the University of New Haven.

As Badger highlighted, instead of getting paid the DRG rate, a hospital that admits a coronavirus patient will receive 20 percent more compensation than they would for providing that same care to a non-coronavirus patient.

"Imagine two Medicare patients, one with COVID-19 and another one not, with pneumonia in the same ICU. Medicare will pay, for example, $10,000 for the pneumonia patient who doesn't have COVID-19 and $12,000 for the patient who does," he surmised. "The rationale is that this provides a sort of rough justice method of making sure that hospitals that get a lot of COVID-19 patients also get extra money from the government."

I don't think anyone argues with the actual "dollars and cents" of this issue. Medicare fraud is as old as the hills, but it is administrators who get involved rather than doctors.

T's attacks on the Medical profession is the issue under discussion.

And the issue that will only make this worse ALL over the country is that there IS NO National Plan for anything.......... nata.

From your same article:
He noted that some states, including his home state of Minnesota, as well as California, list only laboratory-confirmed COVID-19 diagnoses. Others, specifically New York, list all presumed cases, which is allowed under guidelines from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention as of mid-April and which will result in a larger payout.

Jensen said he thinks the overall number of COVID-19 cases have been undercounted based on limitations in the number of tests available.

There is outstanding evidence of undercounting of Covid cases as Jenson says above......... IT will be a total mess forever.

BUT the primary issue remains... why attack the Medical community--the front line medical community---when we should be revering them to the moon and back????????????

 

[Lilibet]

Warning: I’m about to rant!

We can dissect the intricacies Medicare coding/billing for COVID-19 cases and deaths ‘til the cows come home, as my mother used to say. But that isn’t the issue at hand. Potential inaccuracies in the details of billing Medicare will be sorted out later and are not contributing to inaccurately minimizing the pandemic...except in the minds and words of those promoting conspiracy theories.

The issue at hand is that people in high positions are dangerously and deliberately minimizing Covid-19 to the detriment of every citizen of this country. The issue is stating as fact that doctors are deliberately and falsely inflating Covid cases and deaths for the purpose of billing Medicare more in order to profit. That is deliberately maligning the motives of doctors and hospitals who are trying their best to help people. Again, it deliberately minimizes the pandemic. That is what the these people are hearing...and that feeds the conspiracy theories they believe and makes it harder to control the pandemic. Deliberately promoting that kind of thinking is evil and is certainly a much bigger issue than any inaccuracy in billing Medicare IMO.

A large and vocal number of commenters on the FB feeds of my local news stations here in rural southern Oregon believe we are being fed false information about the pandemic by the medical profession (including Dr Fauci) and our governor in order to frighten us into submission to the government and take away our freedom. For months they have said that cases and deaths are falsely inflated so doctors and hospitals can charge Medicare more. Their belief is that public health mandates and regulations are designed to make them submit to authority...and that they must resist at all cost. Frankly, it is frightening.

For anyone in a high position of authority to feed this propaganda to gullible people about hospitals falsely inflating Covid cases for profit is feeding the pandemic. These true believers become ammunition in opposition to controlling the pandemic. Cases are increasing in my small county at a rapid rate. The increase in cases and deaths is not caused by how Medicare is billed but by those who minimize the seriousness of the pandemic and those who believe them.

No wonder Dr Fauci is sounding the alarm loud and clear!
JMO MOO

 

[nhmemorymaker]

Checking in on Dr.O:

“ Dr. Osterholm says from a scientific standpoint, herd immunity “has the value of pixie dust”“
https://youtu.be/XKME--EId7A
—

Osterholm: 'Pixie dust and pseudo science' for White House to pursue herd immunity
October 18, 2020
—

Osterholm echoes WHO warning against herd immunity
Oct. 14, 2020

"”Herd immunity has been universally discredited by anyone with credibility," he said. "We'll continue to hear this because there are those who believe the pandemic isn't real to begin with and there are those who are just looking to say, 'Well I'm tired with this pandemic, what else can we do?" he said.“

—

Top U of M epidemiologist: Tighter social restrictions needed to stop COVID-19 surge in Minnesota
Oct. 29, 2020

“After Minnesota hit a record number of new COVID-19 cases Thursday, University of Minnesota infectious disease expert Dr. Michael Osterholm told 5 EYEWITNESS NEWS the state should consider tighter social restrictions "sooner rather than later."

"It's the old adage, 'You can pay me now, or pay me later,' and right now paying now, in the long run, will pay off," Osterholm said. "The only way to contain this virus is by separating people from each other as much as possible, and that would mean taking a look at more restrictions, if needed."“

—

Infectious Disease Expert Warns of "Dark Days" Ahead
Oct. 26

“Doctor Michael Osterholm, who directs the Center for Infectious Disease Research and Policy at the University of Minnesota, says that the public should brace for more troubling reports based on various trends.

"I think we are about to enter the darkest days of the pandemic, not only here in Minnesota, but throughout the entire country. A combination of pandemic fatigue, pandemic anger, and then just the increased frequency of indoor air exposures."”
—

Dr. Michael Osterholm (‘75) gives Farwell Distinguished Lecture
Oct. 24, 2020
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Video / Dr. Michael Osterholm predicts dark days ahead for coronavirus cases
Dr. Osterholm predicts in the coming weeks we will see a spike in case numbers.
Oct. 22, 2020
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Top infectious-disease expert says 'the next 6 to 12 weeks are going to be the darkest of the entire pandemic'
Oct. 19, 2020
—

With Recent Local COVID Surge, Experts Say It's Time To Recommit To Life-Saving Precautions
Oct.17, 2020

“Dr. Michael Osterholm from the University of Minnesota says now is not the time to let up.

“We’re still largely in the third maybe the top of the fourth inning with this virus,” Osterholm said.

He says recent outbreaks in workplaces and teen sporting events indicate life returning to as we knew it, but that has consequences.

And there’s plenty of temptation to come this year – including holidays.

“The tradition is to come together if you really love your family this year thats what you won’t do,” Osterholm said. “This is our COVID year and we have just got to get on with understanding that.”“

[...]

““Every little bit helps and most importantly that little bit could be the life that you save,” Osterholm said.“
—-

Osterholm:
OSTERHOLM: "WE'RE GOING TO BE LIVING IN A COVID WORLD FOR AWHILE"
Oct.15, 2020

“He cautioned the Luther College audience to not rely on having a vaccine save us. Osterholm says predictions are that any vaccine would be 50 percent to 60 percent effective--and that only 50 percent to 60 percent of the population will take the vaccine. That would mean coverage of only 25 percent to 36 percent of the population--and epidemiologists say the rate should be around 60 percent of the population to be totally effective.

"We have a lot of work to be done and it won't be done soon," says Osterholm.“
—

Osterholm blasts Trump breaking isolation to visit supporters as 'very dangerous'
Oct.5, 2020

““If I had to pick the worst-case scenario to try to transmit the virus to somebody in an intentional basis, I would plan exactly what they did,” Osterholm told Dave Lee on the WCCO Morning News, adding that he’s not alleging any kind of devious plot to purposely sicken secret service agents.

“I don’t care if that person in the vehicle is a Democrat or a Republican or a Martian,” said Osterholm. “It doesn’t matter to me. That was a very dangerous move.”“
—

COVID Contact Tracing Is Crucial After Trump's Minnesota Visit
Oct.2, 2020

““Trying to protect the president with the program they had using these antigen tests was a lot like giving the secret service squirt guns and telling them to protect him against assassins,” he said.

Now he says amidst a debate and campaign travels, the challenge is to find out who all was exposed – and negative test results don’t mean people are positively OK.

“There is no get out of jail free card,” he said. “You could test negative today, tomorrow and the following day and then on day five, six or seven become positive and actually become infectious.”“

[...]

BBM:
“Dr. Osterholm recommends anyone who attended Trump festivities in Minnesota to get a nasal swab COVID test about five days out and to quarantine.“
—-

“Finding light at the end of the tunnel”

Oct. 29


“Failure is not an option”

1 week ago

Q&A:

2 weeks ago

(*more videos on Dr. O’s YouTube channel)

Pixie Dust. Boy, do I like that......... I know I am going to need that phrase again and again..........

 

[BUF]

Pretty constant contradictions down here. I personally do not believe we will ever get the true data. When you constantly redefine the rules and definitions... you just can't keep up anymore.

The governor long refused to release data on COVID-19 cases at individual nursing homes. He also fought the release of data that shows the number of people currently hospitalized with the virus. And the woman who created the state’s COVID-19 dashboard said DeSantis administration officials told her to manipulate the data to justify the first reopening in May.

Give us the real COVID-19 numbers, Gov. DeSantis | Editorial


Many many Floridians are just resigned to the fact, that much of the hiding of information WILL end up in the courts, but won't benefit accuracy of our public heath until after its too late.

When the Orlando Sentinel this month wanted a report from the White House Coronavirus Task Force that spoke of “early warning signs” for Florida, the DeSantis administration refused. The paper had to hire lawyers to get the report.

Yes, it has been a constant battle here trying to get information that has been suppressed. It is not only the Orlando Sentinel that has had to hire attorneys to get information, but also the many other news sites in this state.... which makes this so incredible here as we have the Sunshine Laws where everything is supposed to be transparent. So if you are trying to hide information, what’s the reason... pretty simple to figure out.

 

[Lilibet]

Thanks, this has increased my knowledge of some basics. I had never considered that those "beak shaped" masks gave more surface area for the wearer to breathe. I have seen some on videos in places and thought they were so strange looking as I have never seen one where I live. Now I understand the design! Appreciate the link to educate! It's amazing what each of us bring to this thread to continue to build on the knowledge in our thread to educate others.

After seeing a few of the “beak shaped” masks worn locally, I ordered some so I could breath and not feel like I’m suffocating. It’s nice to know that the design is beneficial for better protecting others too.

 

[Trino]

The deaths may well be under-reported, but that doesn't change the fact that "presumable" deaths have been added that did not test positive for the virus and other deaths are being counted as covid deaths when the patient tested positive but the virus might only have been a contributing factor.

Those facts have nothing to do with some people spreading false news or not understanding what's happening.

But, likewise, there's no reason to pretend those things are not happening when they are.

If a patient has underlying conditions and COVID, it would seem logical to call this a COVID death since the patient could still be with us if not for COVID.

 

[Reasonable & Just]

I appreciate this leadership from Surgeon General Jerome Adams.

U.S. Surgeon General
@Surgeon_General
Reject the false choice of reopening vs mitigation. Adherence to public health measures actually facilitates reopening. Even if you don’t feel at risk yourself, caring for/ limiting spread to others really does benefit all of us. Hang in there (flag emoji)!


https://mobile.twitter.com/Surgeon_General/status/1322885245901938688/retweets

 

[BayouBelle_LA]

I don't think anyone argues with the actual "dollars and cents" of this issue. Medicare fraud is as old as the hills, but it is administrators who get involved rather than doctors.

T's attacks on the Medical profession is the issue under discussion.

And the issue that will only make this worse ALL over the country is that there IS NO National Plan for anything.......... nata.

From your same article:
He noted that some states, including his home state of Minnesota, as well as California, list only laboratory-confirmed COVID-19 diagnoses. Others, specifically New York, list all presumed cases, which is allowed under guidelines from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention as of mid-April and which will result in a larger payout.

Jensen said he thinks the overall number of COVID-19 cases have been undercounted based on limitations in the number of tests available.

There is outstanding evidence of undercounting of Covid cases as Jenson says above......... IT will be a total mess forever.

BUT the primary issue remains... why attack the Medical community--the front line medical community---when we should be revering them to the moon and back????????????

My post was in response to someone that didn’t understand that being diagnosed or even just presumed cases of covid got the doctors and hospitals more money. I provided links as to how that happens.

Medicare fraud happens by administrators and doctors alike. I can provide links for this but I suggest a google search, there’s a lot. ETA - I’m not implying that is the case here and I haven’t given an opinion to such.

 

[Reasonable & Just]

My post was in response to someone that didn’t understand that being diagnosed or even just presumed cases of covid got the doctors and hospitals more money. I provided links as to how that happens.

Medicare fraud happens by administrators and doctors alike. I can provide links for this but I suggest a google search, there’s a lot.

Fraud happens in a lot of places, including real estate, charities, and fake universities. My concern is a president drumming up hate at a rally towards people who save lives (including his own just recently). He has the power to have the attorney general investigate fraud, I'm sure. So why not just do something, rather than whip up hate?

 

[dixiegirl1035]

I appreciate this leadership from Surgeon General Jerome Adams.

U.S. Surgeon General
@Surgeon_General
Reject the false choice of reopening vs mitigation. Adherence to public health measures actually facilitates reopening. Even if you don’t feel at risk yourself, caring for/ limiting spread to others really does benefit all of us. Hang in there (flag emoji)!

I am very pleased that the scientists are now feeling emboldened to express what they have wanted as to science now. They were between a rock and a hard place to keep their positions and not shout to the world for the last 3-5 months, but now they see that they can MOO

 

[GRT]

Perhaps people should read the policy more carefully ... starting with those who are espousing all of the 'false' covid deaths for 'extra' payments.

"CMS may conduct postpayment medical review to confirm the presence of a positive COVID-19 laboratory test and, if no such test is contained in the medical record, the additional payment resulting from the 20 percent increase in the MS-DRG relative weight will be recouped."

The problem goes back to the way it was set up in my opinion. Had the CARES Act not awarded an extra 20% based on diagnosis rather than allotting funding to be used when a hospital reached capacity--because that was the reason the funding was created to support strained systems--we wouldn't have the issue at all.

Presumable, but not positive cases, scientifically speaking, should not be added. Researchers can still assume the infections are being under-reported -- and they probably are -- without adding arbitrary cases.

There's also the situation with Hospice cases, which I've shared a couple of times now.

 

[GRT]

But isn’t the false narrative the implication that doctors all across America are falsifying records for financial gain? Yet that’s what was said at the rally and people are going to take that and run with it, once again downplaying this virus while numbers rise and rise and rise and rise and rise. I’m just an outside observer but this seems to me to be a big and ongoing problem in the USA. The messaging from the top is really shocking to me.

Yes, that, too, is a false narrative. And, yes, people will run with that.

But that doesn't mean we should create another false narrative to counter the first one.

In my opinion, what we need to do is be clear and factual about how and when cases are under-reported, or inflated, because it's happening on a case by case basis.

 

[GRT]

If a patient has underlying conditions and COVID, it would seem logical to call this a COVID death since the patient could still be with us if not for COVID.

Yes and no.

It's a break from tradition when it comes to Hospice patients. As I explained before, if a Hospice patient is diagnosed as being terminal due to cancer, when the patient dies because his system could not recover from a common cold, they do not code his death as being a "cold" death. Same with the flu.

Where the problem arises, from a statistical standpoint, is that we're comparing the number of covid deaths and infections to the average number of infections and deaths from the flu, but the way they're recording those deaths obfuscate the totals rather than clarify them.

We know covid is more infectious than the average flu, right? But we don't know how much. Why? Because when a patient is diagnosed with the flu, no one tracks down his family and co-workers and tests them as well.

Most folks don't even go to the doctor when they have the flu--they just tough it out.

I'm just looking for continuity in testing and statistics and we're seeing a lot of incongruity. It shouldn't have been set up that way. JMOO

 

[Trino]

Yes and no.

It's a break from tradition when it comes to Hospice patients. As I explained before, if a Hospice patient is diagnosed as being terminal due to cancer, when the patient dies because his system could not recover from a common cold, they do not code his death as being a "cold" death. Same with the flu.

Where the problem arises, from a statistical standpoint, is that we're comparing the number of covid deaths and infections to the average number of infections and deaths from the flu, but the way they're recording those deaths obfuscate the totals rather than clarify them.

We know covid is more infectious than the average flu, right? But we don't know how much. Why? Because when a patient is diagnosed with the flu, no one tracks down his family and co-workers and tests them as well.

Most folks don't even go to the doctor when they have the flu--they just tough it out.

I'm just looking for continuity in testing and statistics and we're seeing a lot of incongruity. It shouldn't have been set up that way. JMOO

I can understand if the person is terminal, but underlying conditions do not consistently mean terminal. COVID would enhance the death possibility.

 

[Rose in SC]

Good news and not so good news from South Carolina this morning.

Only one confirmed death (the good), but over 1,300 new cases (not good)! And a percent positive rate of 12.2%.

SC announces 1,319 new COVID-19 cases, 1 additional death Sunday
"As of Sunday morning, DHEC says 81.44% of inpatient beds in South Carolina are in use while 76.94% of ICU beds are in use.

There are 773 hospitalized patients who have tested positive for COVID-19 or are under investigation for having the virus, DHEC said. Of those, 190 COVID-19 patients are in the ICU.

DHEC is reporting 1,892 ventilators available in the state with 474 of them in use. COVID-19 patients account for 93 of those."

 

[MimosaMornings]

The past three years, people I work with have gone to the doctor for the flu, seemed to be an 8-12 day illness. Work required a doctors note after the second sick day.
And you were sent home if you were visibly sick and told to call Teladoc. JMO

 

[nhmemorymaker]

If a patient has underlying conditions and COVID, it would seem logical to call this a COVID death since the patient could still be with us if not for COVID.

EXACTLY why we need national plans and guidance.

 

[nhmemorymaker]

Well, this is good news. It means that things are ramping up. Not just for us, but remember we are going to supply a bunch of other countries in our zone of the world as well.


Australia is set to start manufacturing a COVID-19 vaccine this month as the government reveals its vaccine rollout plan.

Health Minister Greg Hunt told The Herald Sun the Oxford AstraZeneca vaccine was likely to begin being manufactured by vaccine manufacturer CSL in November.

Hunt said the government is also set to buy into two additional COVID-19 vaccines, meaning Australians will have access to four types of vaccines.

The health minister also revealed healthcare workers, including doctors, nurses and aged care workers, and those who are most vulnerable could begin receiving the vaccine from March.

Next will be what the government deems “essential workers” but could include transport workers and teachers.

All other Australians could receive the jab in the months after, to the end of 2021 - around the same time the government hopes to re-open international borders.

https://7news.com.au/lifestyle/heal...vaccine-as-rollout-plan-is-revealed-c-1496567

hmmmm. Wonder what the US will do. I know we have invested billions into hydroxywhatever, and remdesivir, so we have most of it worldwide. I wonder if we are only going to get and wait for the vaccines that are heavily invested in by our government, rather than choices?????????

 

[Sundog]

Hospitals charge Medicare for the fees associated with the patient's care -- and that's typical for all patients/treatments.

Then, on top of the actual cost of care, the facilities are receiving an additional 20%. I linked the actual Medicare policy that spells it out.

Why do we have people who are playing politics on both sides?

Only the facts matter.

CDC Director acknowledges possible inflation in COVID-19 death count

This type of inaccurate number reporting has also happened in the past with HIV/AIDs per CDC director.

User Clip: CDC Director acknowledges possible inflation in COVID-19 death count | C-SPAN.org