Coronavirus COVID-19 - Global Health Pandemic #87

[margarita25]

A Covid-19 vaccine may cause unpleasant side effects. People should be prepared, scientists say.

“Left out so far in the push to develop vaccines with unprecedented speed has been a large-scale plan to communicate effectively about those issues in advance, said Saad Omer, director of the Yale Institute for Global Health.

"You need to be ready," he said. "You can't look for your communication materials the day after the vaccine is authorized."

Omer, who declined to comment on reports that he's being considered for a post in the new administration of President-elect Joe Biden, called for the rollout of a robust messaging campaign based on the best scientific evidence about vaccine hesitancy and acceptance. The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention has created a strategy called "Vaccinate with Confidence," but it lacks the necessary resources, Omer said.

"We need to communicate, and we need to communicate effectively, and we need to start planning for this now," he said.”

[...]

“Data from early trials of several Covid-19 vaccines suggest that consumers will need to be prepared for side effects that, while technically mild, could disrupt daily life. A senior Pfizer executive told the news outlet Stat that side effects from the company's vaccine appear to be comparable to those of standard adult vaccines but worse than those of the company's pneumonia vaccine, Prevnar, or typical flu shots.”

[...]

“We are asking people to take a vaccine that is going to hurt.“

 

[MimosaMornings]

Are Dogs Spreading SARS-CoV-2? Study Finds Living With a Dog Increases Risk of Contracting COVID-19

[In this study, the effect of certain variables—gender, age, educational level, type of residence, size of household, cohabitation with children or adolescents, the presence of workers among the household members, the presence of domestic workers in the home during lockdown, or having any type of pet other than a dog—was found to have no statistical significance.

The most effective hygiene measure in helping to reduce the prevalence of the disease was to disinfect products purchased from the market once back home (which reduced the risk by 94%).

...
Among mobility variables that were studied, those with the greatest effect in terms of increasing the prevalence of the virus were working outside the home (which increased the risk by 76%) and the use of public transport (particularly the underground system or tram network). A higher prevalence of the disease was also detected among those surveyed who had purchased their basic products at a supermarket and then used the home delivery service, compared to those who brought their shopping home themselves (the risk increased by 94% among the former group).]

This statement confuses me. Does it mean that disinfecting your groceries is more effective versus facemasks, gloves, etc?

“The most effective hygiene measure in helping to reduce the prevalence of the disease was to disinfect products purchased from the market once back home (which reduced the risk by 94%). This was found to be more effective than other hygiene measures, such as the use of facemasks, gloves, disinfecting with ethanol or bleach, disinfecting shoes, and washing clothes when returning home.”

 

[LadyL]

Edmonton ICU doctor warns COVID-19 second wave is turning into a ‘tsunami’

 

[SouthAussie]

Didn’t last long though...are you in partial lockdown where you are now SA?

Maybe a bit. We are definitely in a critical period of either we get this outbreak stopped or we will have big problems.

I think they are trying to stop us moving around too much, so they can contain this outbreak. Work from home if you can. No uneccessary travel. So we will mostly just stay in our neighbourhoods. We don't want the virus getting out of the city.

They have closed gyms, playgrounds, and stopped community sports. But everything is open, with limits on how many people. No standing/mingling in pubs.
My aquafit classes are still on, with the usual social distancing and limited numbers, because the pool is an educational facility (only does swim classes and aquafit).

We are not taking any more international returnees for a bit - as we want to keep medi hotel capacity, just in case.

 

[Lilibet]

Are Dogs Spreading SARS-CoV-2? Study Finds Living With a Dog Increases Risk of Contracting COVID-19

[In this study, the effect of certain variables—gender, age, educational level, type of residence, size of household, cohabitation with children or adolescents, the presence of workers among the household members, the presence of domestic workers in the home during lockdown, or having any type of pet other than a dog—was found to have no statistical significance.

The most effective hygiene measure in helping to reduce the prevalence of the disease was to disinfect products purchased from the market once back home (which reduced the risk by 94%).

...
Among mobility variables that were studied, those with the greatest effect in terms of increasing the prevalence of the virus were working outside the home (which increased the risk by 76%) and the use of public transport (particularly the underground system or tram network). A higher prevalence of the disease was also detected among those surveyed who had purchased their basic products at a supermarket and then used the home delivery service, compared to those who brought their shopping home themselves (the risk increased by 94% among the former group).]

This part of the study quoted below jumped out at me as I am about to order from Instacart and have it delivered (which we’ve been doing since April). If disinfecting products purchased at the market reduces risk by 94% (which we do with every Instacart order), does that balance out the risk that increases by 94% from having groceries delivered? I hope the answer is “yes” because we prefer not to take the risk of going to the supermarket ourselves, being in our mid-70’s. We wipe everything with paper towels sprayed with a strong alcohol/water solution. Is there a better way? It also amazes me that the risk of working outside the home (76%) is less than having groceries delivered!

The most effective hygiene measure in helping to reduce the prevalence of the disease was to disinfect products purchased from the market once back home (which reduced the risk by 94%). This was found to be more effective than other hygiene measures, such as the use of facemasks, gloves, disinfecting with ethanol or bleach, disinfecting shoes, and washing clothes when returning home.
<snip>
A higher prevalence of the disease was also detected among those surveyed who had purchased their basic products at a supermarket and then used the home delivery service, compared to those who brought their shopping home themselves (the risk increased by 94% among the former group).
Are Dogs Spreading SARS-CoV-2? Study Finds Living With a Dog Increases Risk of Contracting COVID-19

 

[Yesiamapirate]

This statement confuses me. Does it mean that disinfecting your groceries is more effective versus facemasks, gloves, etc?

“The most effective hygiene measure in helping to reduce the prevalence of the disease was to disinfect products purchased from the market once back home (which reduced the risk by 94%). This was found to be more effective than other hygiene measures, such as the use of facemasks, gloves, disinfecting with ethanol or bleach, disinfecting shoes, and washing clothes when returning home.”

Honestly, the whole article kind of confused me.

 

[Lilibet]

This statement confuses me. Does it mean that disinfecting your groceries is more effective versus facemasks, gloves, etc?

“The most effective hygiene measure in helping to reduce the prevalence of the disease was to disinfect products purchased from the market once back home (which reduced the risk by 94%). This was found to be more effective than other hygiene measures, such as the use of facemasks, gloves, disinfecting with ethanol or bleach, disinfecting shoes, and washing clothes when returning home.”

Yes, I find this confusing too. I’m also trying to assess the risk of having groceries delivered if we disinfect them. See post above.

 

[ilovewings]

Are Dogs Spreading SARS-CoV-2? Study Finds Living With a Dog Increases Risk of Contracting COVID-19

[In this study, the effect of certain variables—gender, age, educational level, type of residence, size of household, cohabitation with children or adolescents, the presence of workers among the household members, the presence of domestic workers in the home during lockdown, or having any type of pet other than a dog—was found to have no statistical significance.

The most effective hygiene measure in helping to reduce the prevalence of the disease was to disinfect products purchased from the market once back home (which reduced the risk by 94%).

...
Among mobility variables that were studied, those with the greatest effect in terms of increasing the prevalence of the virus were working outside the home (which increased the risk by 76%) and the use of public transport (particularly the underground system or tram network). A higher prevalence of the disease was also detected among those surveyed who had purchased their basic products at a supermarket and then used the home delivery service, compared to those who brought their shopping home themselves (the risk increased by 94% among the former group).]

i dont disinfect my groceries-- i used to wash them down but i read epidemiologists
and other medical experts said that was not necessary--i wash my hands after handling
groceries

 

[MsArk]

Nice to know!

Leading up to Thanksgiving, Zoom has announced it will lift its 40-minute meeting limit for families who choose not to spend the holiday together because of the COVID-19 pandemic.

Zoom extending meeting time limit on Thanksgiving to avoid cutting off your family's call

 

[Lilibet]

i dont disinfect my groceries-- i used to wash them down but i read epidemiologists
and other medical experts said that was not necessary--i wash my hands after handling
groceries

Yes, I read that too that disinfecting groceries isn’t necessary. We skipped doing it one time, but decided “better safe than sorry” with all the conflicting information. And now this study from Spain! I do think having groceries delivered is less risky for us personally than going to the store and mingling with other people, regardless of this study. But what do I know LOL! We just assume that everyone is contagious and act accordingly, pretty much in voluntary lock down, hoping for the best.

 

[Lilibet]

This statement confuses me. Does it mean that disinfecting your groceries is more effective versus facemasks, gloves, etc?

“The most effective hygiene measure in helping to reduce the prevalence of the disease was to disinfect products purchased from the market once back home (which reduced the risk by 94%). This was found to be more effective than other hygiene measures, such as the use of facemasks, gloves, disinfecting with ethanol or bleach, disinfecting shoes, and washing clothes when returning home.”

The way I read it is that if you take all the precautions listed, but don’t disinfect your groceries, you haven’t done the most important thing. But it is all very confusing.

 

[10ofRods]

This statement confuses me. Does it mean that disinfecting your groceries is more effective versus facemasks, gloves, etc?

“The most effective hygiene measure in helping to reduce the prevalence of the disease was to disinfect products purchased from the market once back home (which reduced the risk by 94%). This was found to be more effective than other hygiene measures, such as the use of facemasks, gloves, disinfecting with ethanol or bleach, disinfecting shoes, and washing clothes when returning home.”

First of all, the study is in Andalusia and their conclusion about dogs is mere correlation, with no known mechanism of causation. Indeed, since dog owners in Andalusia go out of their houses frequently to walk their dogs, it's safe to assume they run into other people (who are the actual vector for CV-19). There's no evidence whatsoever in actual studies of dog noses and sputum that dogs spread coronavirus.

Companion animals likely do not spread COVID-19 but may get infected themselves

The actual article states that living with a CV positive person was the greatest risk factor::

//The results showed that the risk of suffering from COVID-19 is 60 times higher among those who cohabit with a COVID-19 patient. In addition, of all the socio-demographic variables analyzed, the one with the most powerful effect in terms of increasing the risk of contracting the disease (by up to 78%) was living with a dog and taking it for a walk. By contrast, having cats or other types of pets had no significant effect on the prevalence of the disease.//

We know that some cats can get CoVid (and get sick) and yet no transmission (because they are kept indoors in the studies where there were cat owners). Sidewalks are potential CV transmission vectors (virions lasting there for several hours).

The grocery delivery issue is puzzling (and is not replicated anywhere else in the world that I can find). Again, there's a correlation but no study or proof of causation. I'm quite certain that people who disinfect their food packaging are also wearing masks and social distancing and in general very much more concerned about the virus. In fact, I'd bet that many of them are also taking Vitamin D, etc. Until those variables are disentangled, attributing the lower COVID rate to grocery-washing seems absurd to me. Many people simply leave their groceries outside the house for a few hours - and unless this study can be replicated outside of Spain, I'm not convinced. In fact, other studies have shown no real advantage to washing everything with disinfectant (hard surfaced objects like some boxes can probably harbor COVID for a while).

I'm also confused by the fact that home delivery seemed riskier (in Spain) than going to the grocery store. Are most markets outdoors? Do the elderly talk to their delivery people? Because we know mask wearing works and aside from this one general study, there are no others I can find that imply grocery delivery is a problem. Wouldn't curbside pick-up be just as bad? Why are we not seeing more COVID amongst those of us who get delivery? (There are a lot of people getting delivery - and not washing all their packages...yet no study shows that as a vector in the US or UK or elsewhere).

This article from JAMA states that washing one's hands and faces after handling groceries (whether delivered or self-purchased), throwing away grocery bags (washing again after touching them of course), and then waiting 24 hours to touch the groceries (and then washing hands again) should be enough:

Food Safety and COVID-19

 

[10ofRods]

This part of the study quoted below jumped out at me as I am about to order from Instacart and have it delivered (which we’ve been doing since April). If disinfecting products purchased at the market reduces risk by 94% (which we do with every Instacart order), does that balance out the risk that increases by 94% from having groceries delivered? I hope the answer is “yes” because we prefer not to take the risk of going to the supermarket ourselves, being in our mid-70’s. We wipe everything with paper towels sprayed with a strong alcohol/water solution. Is there a better way? It also amazes me that the risk of working outside the home (76%) is less than having groceries delivered!

The most effective hygiene measure in helping to reduce the prevalence of the disease was to disinfect products purchased from the market once back home (which reduced the risk by 94%). This was found to be more effective than other hygiene measures, such as the use of facemasks, gloves, disinfecting with ethanol or bleach, disinfecting shoes, and washing clothes when returning home.
<snip>
A higher prevalence of the disease was also detected among those surveyed who had purchased their basic products at a supermarket and then used the home delivery service, compared to those who brought their shopping home themselves (the risk increased by 94% among the former group).
Are Dogs Spreading SARS-CoV-2? Study Finds Living With a Dog Increases Risk of Contracting COVID-19

I see your bolded section in that article - but I don't see how they arrived at their mathematical conclusions or how they obtained data on the household behavior of the participants. It's a very strange study that draws conclusions without stating how its methods support those conclusions.

IMO, there's no way to give such a specific quantification of risk unless they have video cameras following all the subjects around.

 

[Lilibet]

I see your bolded section in that article - but I don't see how they arrived at their mathematical conclusions or how they obtained data on the household behavior of the participants. It's a very strange study that draws conclusions without stating how its methods support those conclusions.

Thanks for weighing in @10ofRods. I suppose their methods were described in the actual study, which would be in Spanish, so I didn’t even bother looking for it. We will keep on having groceries delivered and disinfecting them until further information is available. Does anyone know what Dr Fauci has said on the subject, if anything? Heading off to consult my friend Google.

ETA: My friend Google came through:
Dr Fauci says to focus on washing hands rather than disinfecting items. Hmmmmm...I’m not sure I’m brave enough to stop disinfecting.
Dr. Fauci says you can stop wiping down your groceries

Fauci: 'Just focus on washing your hands'

 

[acutename]

I see your bolded section in that article - but I don't see how they arrived at their mathematical conclusions or how they obtained data on the household behavior of the participants. It's a very strange study that draws conclusions without stating how its methods support those conclusions.

IMO, there's no way to give such a specific quantification of risk unless they have video cameras following all the subjects around.

if you read the actual study, which is online:

The spread of SARS-CoV-2 in Spain: Hygiene habits, sociodemographic profile, mobility patterns and comorbidities - ScienceDirect

they did surveys and used people's responses to look for statistical
relationships.... so a lot of Qs about accuracy and their findings are
not like any other studies.... wonder where people walk dogs in Spain and
who delivers groceries... among other Qs.

 

[GRT]

Are Dogs Spreading SARS-CoV-2? Study Finds Living With a Dog Increases Risk of Contracting COVID-19

[In this study, the effect of certain variables—gender, age, educational level, type of residence, size of household, cohabitation with children or adolescents, the presence of workers among the household members, the presence of domestic workers in the home during lockdown, or having any type of pet other than a dog—was found to have no statistical significance.

The most effective hygiene measure in helping to reduce the prevalence of the disease was to disinfect products purchased from the market once back home (which reduced the risk by 94%).

...
Among mobility variables that were studied, those with the greatest effect in terms of increasing the prevalence of the virus were working outside the home (which increased the risk by 76%) and the use of public transport (particularly the underground system or tram network). A higher prevalence of the disease was also detected among those surveyed who had purchased their basic products at a supermarket and then used the home delivery service, compared to those who brought their shopping home themselves (the risk increased by 94% among the former group).]

I wonder if this is because the virus can be carried in feces and if a dog lives in a house with an infected owner, perhaps it can get the virus and then its feces might be infected? Dogs, being dogs, love to sniff around other dog's poo and they also like sniffing their rear ends.

We have four dogs, but we live on 80 acres and they never come into contact with other dog's poo.

I hope that will be sufficient for staying safe.

 

[SouthAussie]

Edmonton ICU doctor warns COVID-19 second wave is turning into a ‘tsunami’

So we are gearing up to be thankful for a potential vaccine(s) and others are already campaigning against it.


Brindley said he is very concerned with the hostile attitude he’s seeing from anti-vaccine activists.
“I’m starting to get hate mail and bizarre accusations from anti-vaxxers that we’re working for big pharma because we’re promoting a vaccine.”
He says the accusations and misconceptions are ludicrous.

 

[ilovewings]

Yes, I read that too that disinfecting groceries isn’t necessary. We skipped doing it one time, but decided “better safe than sorry” with all the conflicting information. And now this study from Spain! I do think having groceries delivered is less risky for us personally than going to the store and mingling with other people, regardless of this study. But what do I know LOL! We just assume that everyone is contagious and act accordingly, pretty much in voluntary lock down, hoping for the best.

Frankly i got really tired of washing down all my groceries , but i did it-- then i read it isnt
necessary- that there is little if any risk from bringing groceries into the home-- i do put some items aside for a few days before putting them away-- I feel hand washing is the
most important thing to do after handling groceries, packages or mail.

 

[Lilibet]

Frankly i got really tired of washing down all my groceries , but i did it-- then i read it isnt
necessary- that there is little if any risk from bringing groceries into the home-- i do put some items aside for a few days before putting them away-- I feel hand washing is the
most important thing to do after handling groceries, packages or mail.

Yes, washing hands is the priority. Everything else is optional. It’s probably not logical that we wipe down groceries but not mail and Amazon deliveries. We just wash hands after receiving those. Go figure!

 

[GRT]

So we are gearing up to be thankful for a potential vaccine(s) and others are already campaigning against it.


Brindley said he is very concerned with the hostile attitude he’s seeing from anti-vaccine activists.
“I’m starting to get hate mail and bizarre accusations from anti-vaxxers that we’re working for big pharma because we’re promoting a vaccine.”
He says the accusations and misconceptions are ludicrous.

I'm not really surprised, especially in the US where there's a large movement of parents who don't want to have their children vaccinated against childhood diseases.

I wonder how resistance to the covid vaccine will compare to resistance to the flu vaccine. I would think the two groups would crossover some.

Hopefully, the higher covid death tolls will convince some to get the vaccine.