Could Patsy's Cocktails Have Played A Part In Her Rage Attack?

[GingBreade]

I certainly would never consider handwriting anything, let alone 1500 or so words. Thats insane. I wouldn't consider that even for a split second.

Would you?

Stop and think about it. Just how stupid is that?

Its laughable, IMO, that anyone would believe an occupant of the house would actually sit down and handwrite a 2 1/2 page letter, with practice notes, that is going to be associated with a capital crime. That is THE most absurd thinking I've ever seen in any case investigation. The 'throwing everything in but the kitchen sink' idea just adds to the absurdity.

No, I was not asking you about the note. I was asking how you would 'stage a convincing sexual assault"?? Not to be gross, but really, how would you stage a convincing assault? For it to be CONVINCING of an actual sexual assault? Please, tell me what you would do. Too horrible to put into words hey? Think about actually doing it. To your own daughter. What exactly would you do??

 

[BBB167893]

So the writer must have been thinking clearly in a life or death situation?

No, NO! My point was that the writer was NOT thinking very clearly, at least not by our standards.

Are we to believe that Patsy, in her supposedly drunken rage, kills JB, then is thinking so totally rationally and clearly that she actually sits down and writes a 3 page (?) ransom note, moves the body downstairs and stages a crime scene in such a manner that there is no absolute proof that she committed the crime? Wow.

In the first place, weasel, I think you have the order of events a bit mixed up. In the second place, I don't think she did it all alone. I think she had some help. In the third place, you put me in a somewhat difficult spot the way you worded that: "no absolute proof." Because technically, you're right. Indeed, I'm actually a bit grateful to you for putting it that way. See, this is what I've been trying to explain to HOTYH, for all the good it does me. So I'm going to go on record here in plain words:

There is not one single thing that proves PR was involved in this crime. It's the combination of everything.

And please, don't quote Lawrence Schiller like he's the last word in the case.

I wasn't aware I was doing that. I was quoting the CASKU agents, the guys who do this stuff every day.

There are other REAL experts associated with this case who have totally different opinions.

Yeah, I'm familiar with those "real" experts. So much so that I devoted entire chapters to them.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

I'd venture there are no 'experts' on the JBR case. Knowledgeable, yes. Opinionated, yes.

Experts, no.

 

[BBB167893]

I'd venture there are no 'experts' on the JBR case. Knowledgeable, yes. Opinionated, yes.

Experts, no.

That's as good a set-up for this as I can find.

HOTYH, you and I have done this dance for a long time now. For the last 12+ years, I've done that dance with anyone who cares enough to listen. In the time that we've known each other, you've asked me many questions. Some have been very clever and rather insightful. The rest of them...moving on. But in all of this back-and-forth, the big questions have been left unspoken: why do I keep coming back to this case? Why do I obsess on it to the exclusion of all others?

Tell me, HOTYH, and tell me honestly: why do you think I do all that?

 

[Tadpole12]

SD - generosity of intellect!
truthsayer?

 

[BBB167893]

Well, I'll save you guys a lot of effort and tell you why:

because I believe this case is indicative of where I'm afraid the legal system in this country is headed, and has been headed since the days of the Warren Court. The lawyers were able to control this case from Day One, and not just because of the DA's office. For a long time, the handcuffs have been on the police instead of the criminals.

Bottom line: justice should be blind, but it shouldn't be crippled too.

 

[anne11]

Well said SD!

 

[BBB167893]

Well said SD!

Thank you.

 

[Sophie]

Well, I'll save you guys a lot of effort and tell you why:

because I believe this case is indicative of where I'm afraid the legal system in this country is headed, and has been headed since the days of the Warren Court. The lawyers were able to control this case from Day One, and not just because of the DA's office. For a long time, the handcuffs have been on the police instead of the criminals.

Bottom line: justice should be blind, but it shouldn't be crippled too.

Brilliant quote! Really don't want to hijack this discussion with comparative law but one of the endlessly interesting things about this case to an English person is that the UK is a bloated version of Boulder in terms of how liberal and politically correct our system has become. The expeditiousness of your system is something to be treasured.

 

[BBB167893]

No, I was not asking you about the note. I was asking how you would 'stage a convincing sexual assault"?? Not to be gross, but really, how would you stage a convincing assault? For it to be CONVINCING of an actual sexual assault? Please, tell me what you would do. Too horrible to put into words hey? Think about actually doing it. To your own daughter. What exactly would you do??

I think you just hit on it, GingBreade. I think the idea IS too horrible for HOTYH. Maybe that's why he won't even consider it.

I don't blame him. I pray everyday I didn't believe it!

PM me later on, GingBreade!

Now, onto due business. The whole point of this thread is "can a drug or a combination of drugs cause a non-violent person to turn violent?"

Well, let's take Xanax, "mother's little helper." With Xanax, the answer is, "YES, it can!"

Take a look at this: http://www.power-surge.com/educate/medication/xanax.htm

People taking alprazolam can become disinhibited, violent, or have marked personality changes.

Some users experience hostility, and rage.

Folks, these drugs are DANGEROUS!

 

[Ames]

I think you just hit on it, GingBreade. I think the idea IS too horrible for HOTYH. Maybe that's why he won't even consider it.

I don't blame him. I pray everyday I didn't believe it!

PM me later on, GingBreade!

Now, onto due business. The whole point of this thread is "can a drug or a combination of drugs cause a non-violent person to turn violent?"

Well, let's take Xanax, "mother's little helper." With Xanax, the answer is, "YES, it can!"

Take a look at this: http://www.power-surge.com/educate/medication/xanax.htm

People taking alprazolam can become disinhibited, violent, or have marked personality changes.

Some users experience hostility, and rage.

Folks, these drugs are DANGEROUS!

Red bold is mine..

You got that right. I can vouch for that...I have had to call 911 on my husband for this very reason....more than once.

 

[BBB167893]

Red bold is mine..

You got that right. I can vouch for that...I have had to call 911 on my husband for this very reason....more than once.

I sympathize, Ames. I really do. I still can't forget what they did to my dad.

 

[Ames]

I sympathize, Ames. I really do. I still can't forget what they did to my dad.

My husband would take his alprazolam, and forget how many he had taken...and in one day...he took 14 of them, I am surprised that it didn't kill him. I am sure that my kids will never forget what it did to their dad, either. It was a sad situation...he finally got off of them. Thank goodness...it was either they go...or I go. He was put on Klonopin to help him get off of the alprazolam, and they weren't any better. So, he finally just quit them all...cold turkey.

 

[Sophie]

My husband would take his alprazolam, and forget how many he had taken...and in one day...he took 14 of them, I am surprised that it didn't kill him. I am sure that my kids will never forget what it did to their dad, either. It was a sad situation...he finally got off of them. Thank goodness...it was either they go...or I go. He was put on Klonopin to help him get off of the alprazolam, and they weren't any better. So, he finally just quit them all...cold turkey.

Sorry you went through this, Ames. I don't really have any direct experience of this but I do think that the medication of emotional, psychiatric, stress-related, exhaustion-related illness is, in comparative terms, at the attachment of leeches stage. Sledgehammers to crack walnuts type of stuff.

 

[GingBreade]

Once again, lets listen to the 911 tape of Patsy calling that morning...she starts at :33. I'll give her this: she is a darn good actress and I would tend to believe her if it weren't for all that heavy breathing and !

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BiwiJ63QwKE"]YouTube - JonBenet's dreams were snatched away (the 911 call)[/ame]

 

[DeeDee249]

Well, she DID do a "dramatic reading" for her Miss America talent competition.

 

[Ames]

Once again, lets listen to the 911 tape of Patsy calling that morning...she starts at :33. I'll give her this: she is a darn good actress and I would tend to believe her if it weren't for all that heavy breathing and !

YouTube - JonBenet's dreams were snatched away (the 911 call)

I KNOW! Although, I wouldn't believe her with or without the heavy breathing, it didn't make sense. If my daughter had of been kidnapped by a Small Foreign Faction, and threatened to be beheaded...I would have been crying my eyeballs out, not breathing all heavy. Maybe she was trying to make the 911 operator think that she was crying, by breathing heavy. (She was tired from all of that staging that she and John had to do...IMO You know, writing a three page ransom note, and staging a crime scene can take alot out of a person, I imagine that it IS quite tiring.) I have had to call 911 before, on a matter that I would rather not discuss here, and I couldn't even remember my address. AND MY child wasn't even "kidnapped"!!! Patsy just spouted off her address...like it was no problem. Even Haney, the interviewer mentioned that to her...saying that "most people couldn't even remember their address when they called 911" because they were too upset. THAT would be me....

 

[Ames]

Well, she DID do a "dramatic reading" for her Miss America talent competition.

Patsy herself states that John was calm, cool and collected...and she was hysterical....in the 98 interview with Haney. And Haney asked her why SHE was the one that called 911, and not John...since he was so calm, cool and collected..and she was hysterical. She said something like...she had calmed down before the call, or something like that. IMO...Patsy called...because the whole thing was a LIE...and SHE was the actress in the family. I just don't believe that J could have pulled it off like she did, since he is not the one that did a "dramatic reading" for the Miss America talent competition. She had all of the talent needed to come up with kidnapping/murder/Intruder staging. The Journalism Major helped her write the RN, and her acting skills were just perfect for the 911 call. IMO IMO

 

[madeleine]

Must have been very convenient for JR to have PR on medication all the time after it happened,made it easier for him to control her .IMO

That's why I tend to believe it was him.She was a mess.Yes she was the actress in that house,but to me the staging/overkill has JR written all over it.I don't think she would have been able to pull that off.

There's a married couple who seems to have intimate problems.There's a young beauty queen in the house.There are signs of prior sexual abuse.The garrotte,the ligatures(two things I don't believe point to Patsy),JB cleaned and redressed(calculated).A mother sleeping soundly because she's on medication.
I tend to believe part of Wecht's theory that it was a sex game gone awry.


Yep,she was involved in the cover up (the fibers,the note,the call) but I don't think she would have been able to think clear that night/morning.

 

[UKGuy]

So the writer must have been thinking clearly in a life or death situation? Are we to believe that Patsy, in her supposedly drunken rage, kills JB, then is thinking so totally rationally and clearly that she actually sits down and writes a 3 page (?) ransom note, moves the body downstairs and stages a crime scene in such a manner that there is no absolute proof that she committed the crime? Wow. And please, don't quote Lawrence Schiller like he's the last word in the case. There are other REAL experts associated with this case who have totally different opinions.

weasel,
Someone, prior to JonBenet's death, sexually and physically assaulted her. The autopsy report itemizes the contusions and abrasions, including her head injury.

The RN is nonsense anyway. Especially with JonBenet lying concealed in the wine-cellar. And yes it does appear Patsy played a substantial role in staging JonBenet's death. Her fibers are on items alleged to have been sourced by the intruder.

.