Couple who adopted 12 children shot to death #2

[gazelletime]

First day in comment sec newspaper someone said they steal babies I just figured it was someone like the leonard jr they think losing rights is stealing some times it also happens a woman gets pregnant never tells the dad and puts on birth cert dont know who is dad then maybe gave child up for adoption if a man finds out after the fact it s too late have read about man just finding out they had a child but lost rights and child stays with new parents

HUH? What did that say?

 

[Reannan]

Good night everyone. I have bags under my eyes, and I can visibly see my azz getting bigger from doing nothing but sitting here at the computer while dishes pile up and my boss files a missing persons report on me!!! I just feel that we are dancing all around something obvious, but it is like trying to hug smoke. Keep up the good work, and if I can drag my fatt azz out of bed (which I have to do at 6:30 am EST), I will catch you all tomorrow. :blowkiss:

 

[FromFL]

Gonzalez, Jr. received $150,000 for providing "intelligence" services from January through April of 2008, according to Jenkins
Exactly what does "intelligence" services mean?

That's the $150,000 question (pun intended). :banghead:

Could be working in the private security sector for clients, could be informant for local, state or federal authorities, could be illegal intelligence...I don't know..but only 4 months making $150k total is A WHOLE HELLUVA LOT OF MONEY!

 

[mikeysmommom]

She was on the first thread- I will have to see if I can find it (remember the avon lady website)

http://www.state.wv.us/wvsca/docs/Spring05/31764.pdf

Plumly

what I posted was the avon lady, she is also the one from dcs,and the one who lost her inheritance

 

[gazelletime]

Gonzalez, Jr. received $150,000 for providing "intelligence" services from January through April of 2008, according to Jenkins
Exactly what does "intelligence" services mean?

He showed people how to:

1. Hide and Paint Vehicles
2. Commit Robbery while wearing Ninja "GARB"
3. Easily conceal large objects under piles of bricks

That's what "INTELLIGENCE" refers to, I do believe. :Banane36:

 

[Lossmitpro]

Gonzalez, Jr. received $150,000 for providing "intelligence" services from January through April of 2008, according to Jenkins
Exactly what does "intelligence" services mean?

IMHO, Jr is a total blowhard who will be thinking he is outsmarting LE as he spins a web of fabrications and stories meant to aggrandize himself and make him look like a big man. If LE is smart (and they usually are) they will let him spool up to full throttle, recording everything, and making encouraging noises and trying to look totally impressed. They will then take all that blather to the grist mill and try to extract the truth in the form of names, dates, places, and other valuable information. From his statements so far, I'd say only 1% of what comes out of his mouth is truth, but then, as much as there is coming out, he makes up for it in volume...

 

[Jenmrk]

Here is the strip club scandal

Arety's Angels

In February 2003, Touart's son Matthew, 21 at the time, charged nearly $6,000 at local strip club Arety's Angels to a credit card he had stolen from his father. (Grand theft charges against Matthew were eventually dropped after he completed a "life skills counseling course."[3]) The club's owner, Arety Sievers, was contacted on Touart's behalf by Escambia County Sheriff Ron McNesby, who asked Sievers to forgive the charges. She refused.

After an October 7 raid on her club by the Pensacola Police Department, during which two dancers were arrested for illegal body contact with customers, Sievers accused Touart and McNesby or orchestrating the raid in retaliation against her.[4] Warrants for the raid, part of a sweep by the Department, were granted following "complaints of inappropriate behavior by dancers."[5] The State Attorney's Office concluded on January 13, 2004 that police did not selectively target Sievers' club, but "devoted far greater manpower and financing to the Arety's investigation than to the other five strip clubs following input from the Escambia County Administrator."[6]

A grand jury convened on June 7, 2004 to investigate the allegations, but declined to indict Touart or McNesby of any criminal wrongdoing.[7] However, a later story by WEAR revealed that the wife of one of the grand jurors was employed by McNesby at the Escambia County Sheriff's Office.

After the story broke, the 21-member jury released a statement asserting that, "in an abundance of caution," the juror in question had disclosed his relationship to McNesby and sat out deliberations involving him (but not Touart). The statement added, "To imply that one person could exert such an influence over the other 20 of us demonstrates an ignorance of the process, diminishes us all and casts doubt upon the entire grand jury system."[8]

 

[sharlie]

That's the $150,000 question (pun intended). :banghead:

Could be working in the private security sector for clients, could be informant for local, state or federal authorities, could be illegal intelligence...I don't know..but only 4 months making $150k total is A WHOLE HELLUVA LOT OF MONEY!

Yes it is. The more I learn about him the more I think there is to KNOW??

 

[mikeysmommom]

That's the $150,000 question (pun intended). :banghead:

Could be working in the private security sector for clients, could be informant for local, state or federal authorities, could be illegal intelligence...I don't know..but only 4 months making $150k total is A WHOLE HELLUVA LOT OF MONEY!

Yeah but our government likes spending are hard earned taxed money look how they bought what was it 800.00 hammers?same ones most people owned and paid 5 bucks for

 

[Gastrolith]

First day in comment sec newspaper someone said they steal babies I just figured it was someone like the leonard jr they think losing rights is stealing some times it also happens a woman gets pregnant never tells the dad and puts on birth cert dont know who is dad then maybe gave child up for adoption if a man finds out after the fact it s too late have read about man just finding out they had a child but lost rights and child stays with new parents

Yes, but in this case the men were served with notice but could not come to hearing because they were in prison. If adoptive parents were doing this repeatedly, the men could have standing based on fraud and the doctrine of unclean hands. Even if they ultimately could not get their child back, they could raise a huge stink.

 

[Jenmrk]

The deal at the Sandshaker nor at the strip club has anything to do with the Billings, so that can be scratched.

 

[dood]

i went out earlier so i am again playing catch up ... so forgive me if something has been said about this ... but i remember a few years back there was a case which the owner of arety's angels and her ex came up in the news having to do with a case ... i can't remember quite what it was about i don't want to say things out of turn ... but for you expert sleuthers it could be something to check into .... if my memory serves me correctly it had something to do with a bar on pensacola beach !!! i'm saying they were involved i just remember the names coming up in that case at the beach!

the owner of Arety's was involved in a court battle with the city manager George Tourat (spelling is probably wrong) or what ever his name was, anyway the city managers son went to Aretys and ran up a huge bill on his dads card, the city manager basically had the sheriff then (McNesby) muscle them out of the money and refused to pay the bill, (coercion) it was like 6 thousand or something another. and that's why the owner of Arety's is the wife on an EX deputy lol

 

[dood]

Yes, but in this case the men were served with notice but could not come to hearing because they were in prison. If adoptive parents were doing this repeatedly, the men could have standing based on fraud and the doctrine of unclean hands. Even if they ultimately could not get their child back, they could raise a huge stink.

in this case? reference please?

 

[mikeysmommom]

Yes, but in this case the men were served with notice but could not come to hearing because they were in prison. If adoptive parents were doing this repeatedly, the men could have standing based on fraud an the doctrine of unclean hands. Even if they ultimately could not get their child back, they could raise a huge stink.

I do not think badly of the Billings, my point was if just one dad who is a good guy gets a female pregn but is never told,baby 's dad is listed as unknown.That gives mom the right to put the baby up for adoption with the dad never knowing he made this child.out of spite ,hate, or just some one who knows about it gets it back to the dad maybe he wants that baby he never gave the baby up heck did not know he was a daddy.Fight to get that baby but loses to adoption parents because they never knew mom commited fraud by saying gee i was bed hopping and it could be any body this does happen.

 

[evelyn24]

I agree Steadfast! I just can't get my mind around 7 guys who allegedly only know each other peripherally, yet trained for a month to break into the home of a family, full of children, with what I believe was the full intention of murder as well as robbery. They could have easily broken into the home when the family was away. Look at the timing of when they carried out this murder - they KNEW the family would have just gone to bed because they knew exactly where to go find the Billings, and they knew exactly where the safe was, and yet they did not physically harm the children. All of this in less than 10 minutes.... They had very accurate information about the families life style, and the layout of the home. Where did they get that information? I have a thousand other questions along these lines, but rather than bogart the entire thread, I am going to try and formulate them and ask them of all you wonderful sleuths one at a time. Here is the first one:

1. Why did it take 7 of them to carry out this act? Why couldn't they have planned it with just one or two people? Thoughts?????

Kimberly Guilfoyle made an interesting comment on FNC yesterday afternoon, she said she thinks this group got together to do a series of crimes like robbery etc, but fortunately got caught their first hit at the Billings.
IDK if that's the case it's just speculation, but it wouldn't be the first time a diverse group came together to commit a series of crimes.

 

[STEADFAST]

Byrd then goes on to post a "Surety Bond" for himself, claiming ALL RESPONSIBLITY for any damages that he may occur here:

http://www.escambiaclerk.com/xml_or_1b.asp?uinstr=2004311660

This is EXACTLY THE STEPS to take to in making yourself a "Sovereign Citizen"... You release the U.S. Government from being able to use you as "collateral" for a loan, essentially FREEING yourself from being under the Government.

WOW!

P.S. If you don't understand what I am taking about, please go back and read all the posts from last night, when we linked to (and discussed) all this. It is WAY TOO MUCH to explain again!

Just to be clear, this doesn't actually work in court.

But, I will say, the Billings beliefs about sovereign citizenship, which is something I have been convinced of by credible evidence on here (Their own documents proclaiming themselves as sovereign citizens), may tie into the crime in some way. Either one or more of the perps is also a member of this group and so knew them or had dealing with them or one or more have a grudge against this group or both. At least it's very possible that an association with this group would bring someone into nearer contact with violent people, considering that

Beale and other incarcerated sovereign-citizen activists meet plenty of willing recruits behind prison walls, where the movement is thriving,
http://www.splcenter.org/intel/intelreport/article.jsp?aid=1001

Sovereign citizens also often distinguish between so-called "14th Amendment citizens," who are subject to federal and state governments, and themselves, who are also known as "organic citizens" — an ideology that causes adherents to claim that black people, who only became legal citizens when the 14th Amendment was passed after the Civil War, have far fewer rights than whites.http://www.splcenter.org/intel/intelreport/article.jsp?sid=434

Remember that one perps myspace page that said, "Kill the Hattas [Haters]" or something like that?

On the other hand, there are many people who are not members of the actual Sovereign Citizen Movement and all it entails. They just believe that if they proclaim themselves Sovereign Citizens they won't have to pay taxes or traffic fines. They also believe that if you put everything you own into a trust, you can deduct all your living expenses. (Not true, so don't try it!)

I can see some people being under the impression that people who believe this might have large amounts of cash or gold at their home.

 

[KeenEyes]

I have wondered about the adoption fraud issue. I believe I heard on the news that in addition to developmentally disabled children, the murder victims had kids that had been sexually abused or were removed for neglect due to drugs etc. In the latter two groups, the father could have gone to prison for those crimes. It would be interesting to know if parental rights had been terminated with respect to the father while in prison. A default could easily be obtained because an inmate cannot just come to court for those types of appearances. If arrangements had already been made with the mothers to allow the children to be adopted, it would be clear sailing once the father's rights were terminated. Maybe once these fathers learned what happened they didn't like it and wanted to take action against the newly adoptive parents. In light of the situation with LPG Jr. and his little girl that was taken from him coupled with the fact that many of these suspects have spent time in prison, it could be an interesting theory especially for those who think this was an intentional killing and robbery not the real reason. I have been trying to track some info in that vain, but have been too busy to finish. I will report back over the weekend if any linkages check out.

Gentle sigh. Isn't this the boat we came in on? Yes, it is a natural premise, along with several others, and has been pursued by many on thread2 and the initial one. At some point these pursuits seem to have been misinterpreted as a calculated effort to malign the Billings and fault them with their own murder. I found though that most WSers were just digging vigorously in an attempt to solve a crime and presenting their findings for discussion, confirmation, or even elimination. The most animosity I have seen in all this has been from those who contend with this style of sleuthing.

 

[JustMe42]

That's the $150,000 question (pun intended). :banghead:

Could be working in the private security sector for clients, could be informant for local, state or federal authorities, could be illegal intelligence...I don't know..but only 4 months making $150k total is A WHOLE HELLUVA LOT OF MONEY!

In that article, does it say WHO he recieved the 150,000 from? Could it be that he was being questioned because they found out someone (the subject they were after) paid him the 150,000 and they wanted to know what for? He then tells them - for intellengce type of work I do. Could he have lied about why he got the money. He had blanket immunity, so, why not.

 

[evelyn24]

I have seen adoption papers on 5 of these children thank you very much. The ones I've taught.

I've known these people since they first started adopting these children. I think I know a whole lot more about how they were adopted than you.

I won't argue with you on whether they were good people. I KNOW they were. I simplyresponded to the ridiculous statement that these children were taken from anyone. Melanie still kept in contact with most of the bio parents of these children.

You know the sheriff has said many times over that the connections are within the group of suspects. He has said over and over that the investigation does not involve the family. Why do you insist on trying to drag their name in the mud?

You talk of leaving emotions out of things, tell ya what you do try that when two people you loved dearly are so brutally murdered. I think I've done a pretty good job of not saying a whole lot about the baseless accusations here so far.

:clap:

Well said.

 

[dood]

I can see some people being under the impression that people who believe this might have large amounts of cash or gold at their home.

and probably did

exactly what I was thinking, now how did any of these perps know this ?