Cracked Crab...Priscilla White....Strange??

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That all would make perfect sense if the fight between JR and FW had happened after the police had questioned the Ramseys and asked them if they knew anyone who could possibly have done this.
The "fight" happened the day of JonBenet's funeral and as far as we know, Fleet White was the only person who had actually seen John's reaction upon finding JonBenet. He also knew that he had looked in that room himself and did not see her laying there. I firmly believe (and I think Fleet did too) that JonBenet had not been laying in that room earlier in the morning. Someone had to have moved her there and that person, imo, was John Ramsey. I'm sure Fleet wanted to know why John did that. I would have too, wouldn't you? Everyone says it was too dark for Fleet to have seen her when he looked but it was also too dark for John to have seen her. John shouted as soon as he opened that door and that told Fleet everything he needed to know.

This is also the reason that Fleet picked up the tape that had been covering JB's mouth.. and examined it. It was said that it wasn't very sticky...I am sure he thought that was pretty strange. He obviously thought something was strange about that tape. (The unstickiness of the tape would tell anybody that looked at it, that it was placed on JB's mouth AFTER she was killed, or else she could have moved her mouth, and it would have fallen off, or pushed it off with her tongue).
 
It is weird for a hostess to make all the children's plate.
It would not be considered good etiquette in this day and age with allergies and food issues with children. Assist the mother don't take it upon yourself, you may offend the parent or serve something the child does not like.

Here is a link to an etiquette site about a woman hosting a Christmas party.
No where does it state she should make plates for the children. It has quite a few comments for making the occasion special and no one even brings up a hostess making plates for the children. Children are discussed, what to serve them on, how to make it special for them, how to avoid problems etc.

http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/675130



No where in that statement does John ask her to do this--- Priscilla states she is doing it. It wasn't worded as a request he was informed by Priscilla she was dong it. Consent is not asked nor was it given.


Priscilla mentions JBR by name and does not mention any other child she is getting special items for.
"But I think she made, she always
9 makes these little hot dogs with barbecue sauce
10 that the kids love."
This is a group of people who have shared many a meal together. The kids are in and out of each other's homes. I imagine Priscilla knew exactly what the kids liked and did not like and could and could not eat....just like most mothers know these things about their children's friends. I certainly did when my son was small. I knew what his friends liked when they were strapping young men too, for that matter.

And with regard to this statement: "No where in that statement does John ask her to do this-"...ask her to do what?
 
This topic caught my attention because I have never heard the term "cracked crab". If PR was from VA and GA, I don't think that is a southern term. If JR and PR collaborated on that story I don't think she would have used that terminology. In the south we have always referred to it as "shelled" crab. Also, and I can't cite any one specific thing, but I FEEL that FW picked up on the inconsistencies in JR's words and actions and made an educated assumption that something was not right. Just like alot of us here have done. On a sidenote, if I am hosting a dinner party, and the adults are tied up in conversation, I have always set up a kids table and brought each child thru the buffet line and asked what they wanted and made them a plate and seated them at the table. Maybe just a southern hospitality thing tho.
 
Sorry...you are wrong.
I remember her specifically,
11 Priscilla coming over with this big plate of cracked
12 plate making little plates, and I wanted to save
13 these out for JonBenet and she took them out and
14 put them in the plate.


John says.."I remember her specifically, Priscilla coming over with this big plate of cracked (crab) plate, making little plates, and I wanted to save these out for JonBenet and she took them out and put them in the plate. John said.."I wanted to save....not SHE wanted to save". And so the h*ll what if she called JB by name. WOW...that must mean that she is GUILTY of something, then. She made out a plate of cracked crab, because John asked her to, and then...(GASP!) she calls JonBenet by NAME!!! OMG!!!
I am not trying to be rude to you, but do you realize just how ridiculous that sounds??




I'm reading it like he is quoting her. She says to him at table while doing this "I wanted to save these out for Jon Benet" and she took them out and put them in the plate.

In the plate??? Maybe a typo or who knows regional difference between in and on.

The other way did not make any sense because he doesn't say Priscilla said anything in response, not great I'll make sure she gets them, oh yes I heard your kids love seafood, nothing, but putting them on the plate. Then what??? Walking away(kinda rude). The conversation at a party wouldn't have flowed that way. It just made sense to read it like he was quoting her. Wouldn't she have responded naturally as the hostess who is making food plates for the kids. Wouldn't she at least ask JR if he knew if JBR wanted anything else she was serving? Wouldn't she respond at least to conversation with one of the parents of the kids she was making a plate for.

They may have thought it strange for Priscilla to be making all the plates for the little kids. She had to make one for her daughter anyway so I guess she thought why not. Better than having them all under foot.

The R's are suspicious with hind sight because Priscilla was so so nice and while that isn't unusual in itself they are LOOKING FOR PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN VERY NICE TO JBR LATELY. Just like people here they are reading into people's behavior what they want to see. Even if the R's are acting they need to look like they are suspicious of all, because of the RN info. If they were actors they were good, too good.

The R's found examples of people who had close contact with JBR and were nice to her as possible murder suspects. Imagine if every act of kindness or someone complimenting your child was a possible contact with a child killer.
You would start close to home first then fan out to strangers unless the contact with them was scary or weird to begin with. Hoping any little tid bit of info might "crack" the case. Every little thing would begin to look suspicious.

I find it stranger than before, Priscilla's behavior at the party, if the way I am reading the testimony is backwards then Priscilla who is being so nice to the kids and even gets her food she really likes from her father who speaks to her at the table, and then says nothing in response ---- that does seem strange or a little off. Maybe just distracted with serving all the kids and she didn't think to acknowledge her guest when he spoke to her.

To me that would be a little rude not strange.
 
I'm not sure why anyone thinks that Priscilla was fixing all the kid's plates at the turkey dinner they were having. The way I read JR's statement is that Priscilla had a big platter of cracked crab that she was setting out and that is what she put on little plates for the kids to have later. Since this is the leftover cracked crab from the White's Christmas eve, then I think that she was setting this platter out as an appetizer. The kid's were probably busy playing so before the adults could eat all the crab, Priscilla set some aside for the kid's. At least that's the way I read JR's statement.
 
I don`t find anything strange about a host making a special plate for a child. I`ve done it & it`s done every family gathering for the smaller kids.

Maybe things are different in Colorado though.
 
I'm reading it like he is quoting her. She says to him at table while doing this "I wanted to save these out for Jon Benet" and she took them out and put them in the plate.

In the plate??? Maybe a typo or who knows regional difference between in and on.

The other way did not make any sense because he doesn't say Priscilla said anything in response, not great I'll make sure she gets them, oh yes I heard your kids love seafood, nothing, but putting them on the plate. Then what??? Walking away(kinda rude). The conversation at a party wouldn't have flowed that way. It just made sense to read it like he was quoting her. Wouldn't she have responded naturally as the hostess who is making food plates for the kids. Wouldn't she at least ask JR if he knew if JBR wanted anything else she was serving? Wouldn't she respond at least to conversation with one of the parents of the kids she was making a plate for.

They may have thought it strange for Priscilla to be making all the plates for the little kids. She had to make one for her daughter anyway so I guess she thought why not. Better than having them all under foot.

The R's are suspicious with hind sight because Priscilla was so so nice and while that isn't unusual in itself they are LOOKING FOR PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN VERY NICE TO JBR LATELY. Just like people here they are reading into people's behavior what they want to see. Even if the R's are acting they need to look like they are suspicious of all, because of the RN info. If they were actors they were good, too good.

The R's found examples of people who had close contact with JBR and were nice to her as possible murder suspects. Imagine if every act of kindness or someone complimenting your child was a possible contact with a child killer.
You would start close to home first then fan out to strangers unless the contact with them was scary or weird to begin with. Hoping any little tid bit of info might "crack" the case. Every little thing would begin to look suspicious.

I find it stranger than before, Priscilla's behavior at the party, if the way I am reading the testimony is backwards then Priscilla who is being so nice to the kids and even gets her food she really likes from her father who speaks to her at the table, and then says nothing in response ---- that does seem strange or a little off. Maybe just distracted with serving all the kids and she didn't think to acknowledge her guest when he spoke to her.

To me that would be a little rude not strange.

With respect I have to disgree with your interpretation. Nowhere in his statement does John say "and Priscilla said I want to save these.....". He is simply relating what happened, not giving a blow by blow recitation of "I said" "she said". He is saying that he asked Priscilla to put some aside for JB and she did. It is too much of a stretch to assume that Priscilla said nothing in response simply because John didn't mention it.
 
I have lived in CO and have many friends who live in CO. Some have children, some do not. It is common, in CA, CO and even TX, that a hostess that KNOWS a child, often thinks of the child when putting out food. My grandsons LOVE crab. We had a family gathering last month and the kids were playing. The crab was out as an appetizer and I purposely cracked, peeled and put some up for my grandsons and their friend who love it. After they came inside they gobbled it up and didn't even eat much else. Except french bread.

I find nothing strange, but what I do find strange is that the Ramseys thought it was strange. Excuse me, but you know my daughter so well, knows she loves crab, her
daddy asked you to save her some, but how strange that you did?? Sheesh!
 
What we don't know about this case could completely change our minds about who dun it and how, why, where, etc.

I have to comment on your reasoning and the logic you outline in your entire post, CathyR, not just the part I extracted from it. It's flawless.

Recognizing that there are things that we don't know that could change everything we think about this is so important. Too many people (LE included) formulate an idea based on the limited information they have at the moment. Then when more information is found, rather than looking at the whole picture freshly as to how that information plays in to the entirety of it, they try to fit it in to their already determined theory. Lou Smit, unfortunately, I think, did this.

What was it Donald Rumsfeld said about "known knowns, known unknowns, and unknown unknowns"? I know it sounded silly to some people when he said it, but there is a great deal of intelligence in being able to recognize those things and act with that knowledge.

Some small thing that we don't know, or maybe even that investigators don't know, could change everything.
.
 
I'm not sure why anyone thinks that Priscilla was fixing all the kid's plates at the turkey dinner they were having. The way I read JR's statement is that Priscilla had a big platter of cracked crab that she was setting out and that is what she put on little plates for the kids to have later. Since this is the leftover cracked crab from the White's Christmas eve, then I think that she was setting this platter out as an appetizer. The kid's were probably busy playing so before the adults could eat all the crab, Priscilla set some aside for the kid's. At least that's the way I read JR's statement.

I think that you are right...

5 PATSY RAMSEY: I remember that. Well, I
6 thought that is nice to make sure that we don't devour
7 it before the kids get some, but she specifically
8 mentioned JonBenet's name. And at that time it kind
9 of, you know, flew over. But then when you are trying
10 to remember things later, it seems, you know, a little
11 strange.

-------------------------------

So, it WASN'T a plate to take home for later....after the fact. She was putting the plates together for the kids,BEFORE the adults ate....to make sure that THEY got some. Patsy is making such a big deal of Priscilla mentioning JB by name....so what? She made plates for ALL the kids...not just JB! IF she had of just made a plate for JB, THAT woud be strange.
 
I Then when more information is found, rather than looking at the whole picture freshly as to how that information plays in to the entirety of it, they try to fit it in to their already determined theory. .



I think you are absolutely right,unfortunately.It think this happend and still happens with both RDI and IDI investigators.
Both teams have tried and it didn't work so maybe they have to start fresh.Who knows,maybe it's not black or white.Maybe a Ramsey did it and had an accomplice,maybe an intruder did it and the Ramsey's know.Maybe one doesn't exclude the other in this case IMO.
 
I think you are absolutely right,unfortunately.It think this happend and still happens with both RDI and IDI investigators.
Both teams have tried and it didn't work so maybe they have to start fresh.Who knows,maybe it's not black or white.Maybe a Ramsey did it and had an accomplice,maybe an intruder did it and the Ramsey's know.Maybe one doesn't exclude the other in this case IMO.



Oh so true. Sometimes I wish I could be a fly on the wall if able to change back to human form and use what I learned.

I think enough evidence exists that an IDI is pretty possible.

Personally I blame the R's lawyers for taking the stance of stonewalling (legally) any investigation of the R's. His overall combative approach to the R's even being suspected.
Instead of doing whatever he could to QUICKLY help PD to clearly and concisely do a through investigation and eliminate them and clear up what inconsistencies are in their statements. ----The red shirt or the white shirt she may have worn both recently and Patsy really just doesn't remember that kind of stuff correctly. The shirt could have had some evidence they were washing off as it was found soaking in a sink. An innocent error on her part or some proof of staging either way, the lawyer always tried to prevent the R's from answering or making corrections until the police told them if they had found any evidence on the shirt.

If they didn't have anything the question was really just an irrelevant issue and had nothing to do with the murder and there was no need for the R's to answer it. Their lawyers prevented any FISHING.

Let me try and explain what I mean by fishing.
This may not have been what really transpired but it is used for example purposes.

The red shirt is suspicious as it is soaking in sink and mother reports it is shirt last worn by daughter. They bag it and test it. No blood residue or other strong incriminating evidence can be found in regards to forensics. The only way to get any further info on the shirt is to question the mother. Lawyer is present and questions about red shirt are asked, lawyer wants to know if any incriminating evidence is found on shirt? No answer from police, lawyer instructs client not to answer. If shirt contains any evidence they want to use against client, then file the charges. No answer from client and any suspicion raised by the shirt is a non issue and cannot be investigated further without help from the clients. This in effect didn't hamstring the investigation it just made the Boulder PD have to collect their case against the R's and be prepared to use the evidence they collected to convict them.They couldn't use traditional police questioning methods.

Since no charges were filed I can safely assume not enough evidence was collected that tied the parents to the crime as too much IDI evidence also existed, even without the RN. In other word the PD wasn't able to find enough strong evidence to use against the R's.

What should scare the BEJES#$ out of everyone is my Bold. If you have a lawyer present police can't "try and break you down to trip you up, harass you with the same questions over and over, grill you and give you the 3rd degree."
A lawyer present makes the police address any direct issues they have with your involvement in a case and prevents them from using their police power of interrogation.

The end result in this case--long dragged out investigation with no results as forensics haven't totally solved the case.

Guilt in court of public opinion of the parents.

While what they and their lawyers did is legal but it has most certainly made the case drag on longer.

I don't think the DA really was worried about being sued for civil rights offenses as he knew he was protected. You can be placed on trial have your reputation dragged through the mud, etc and be found innocent. You can't turn around and sue if the evidence used against you is considered a reasonable conclusion. If you can prove misconduct or a personal vendetta then you have a case. If the DA filed he knew he had to have other strong forensic evidence as a confession was not happening.

The R's prevented legally what they felt was a waste of time the investigation of themselves. They actually made themselves look more guilty in the eyes of the public. It left a lot of loose ends that can't be tied up and may or may not have any bearing on the crime. It makes the investigators use forensics very heavily to solve the case.


I watch a lot of true crime shows and even in cases where the perp has left behind several pieces of themselves . Or even the world's most stupid criminals who leave a neon sign behind, the police like to have more than forensics and theories, they like to discredit the perp during questioning. This makes for easier convictions.

This case isn't going to be easy. If an IDI is caught and tried all the theories about the parents involvement will certainly be used as a defense, even Patsy doing it alone with no knowledge of Burke and JR being involved. Since she is dead she can't give the DA any testimony to rebut the defense.

This case is going to be heavily based on forensic evidence. No matter who is charged.
 
This case is going to be heavily based on forensic evidence. No matter who is charged.

This is the part I disagree with.Because everybody knows that the scene was not secured,everybody knows how Meyer did the autopsy (one of the big reasons they can't use the dna found under her nails).Not to mention all those people contaminating the scene that morning,the basement in the first place,the broken window,everything they touched,moved.
All a defense lawyer has to do (no matter whether he defends a Ramsey or an intruder) is talk 3 minutes about LE not securing the crime scene and all the evidence gathered won't be admissible IMO.

Let's say that they have a good Ramsey fiber report or a good intruder DNA report.It won't matter in court since the crime scene was NOT properly secured.It's zero in court IMO.
"It doesn't matter what you know,it's what you can prove in court". ( from Law abiding citizen,one of my fav.movies)
 
yes maybe you can arrest and charge someone based on this evidence.....but you will not be able to go to court with it.

IMO

and the prosecutors in this case knew it.
 
http://www.forensicmag.com/article/crime-scene-contamination?page=0,1

Eliminating contamination at a crime scene can make or break a case. Changing technology, media attention, and even the popularity of forensic and crime scene television shows have made attorneys and potential jury members savvy enough to look to the evidence to prove a case definitively. The role of the crime scene investigator will be highly scrutinized in all cases. How was the evidence collected? Was it compromised in any way? How do we know? By carefully following common sense rules and methods to reduce contamination, can go a long way in eliminating the need to ask these questions.
 
I think that you are right...

5 PATSY RAMSEY: I remember that. Well, I
6 thought that is nice to make sure that we don't devour
7 it before the kids get some, but she specifically
8 mentioned JonBenet's name. And at that time it kind
9 of, you know, flew over. But then when you are trying
10 to remember things later, it seems, you know, a little
11 strange.

-------------------------------

So, it WASN'T a plate to take home for later....after the fact. She was putting the plates together for the kids,BEFORE the adults ate....to make sure that THEY got some. Patsy is making such a big deal of Priscilla mentioning JB by name....so what? She made plates for ALL the kids...not just JB! IF she had of just made a plate for JB, THAT woud be strange.

I see NOTHING AT ALL odd, strange or suspect in PW mentioning JB by name, especially when speaking to one of her parents.

What I DO see as odd, strange and particularly suspect is either of the Rs SAYING it was strange.

I always referred to my child's friends by their names. How else to speak of them? Oh...I guess I could use one of the Rs terms when mentioning their daughter- "that child".
 
(Read CathyR's post for full quote.)


I agree with all you said. But I don’t need to point out (because we all know) that a lawyer is hired (or in the R’s case, a team of lawyers) to protect their client -- not to help police solve the crime. This relationship does make their client(s) look guilty in the eyes of the public. But so far at least, the lawyers have done what they were hired to do -- no one has been charged.

[BTW, off topic maybe, but what do you call a collective group of lawyers? You know, like a gaggle of geese, a pride of lions, a flock of birds, an array of programmers...
How about: A group of lawyers is an “argument”.
]
:dance:
.
 
Was Jonbenet the only kid there that loved it?
Because, when my son was that age he wouldnt have touched cracked crab and he hated chinese food lol
but I had a picky eater type.
So...if jbr is the only kid there known to Priscilla to like seafood, I dont see anything strange about her going out of the way to make sure she got some:waitasec:
Was this a buffet or a sit down dinner?
 
Was Jonbenet the only kid there that loved it?
Because, when my son was that age he wouldnt have touched cracked crab and he hated chinese food lol
but I had a picky eater type.
So...if jbr is the only kid there known to Priscilla to like seafood, I dont see anything strange about her going out of the way to make sure she got some:waitasec:
Was this a buffet or a sit down dinner?

Some kids that age like crab and other seafood, but many do not. My 4-year-old grandson loves it. He goes crabbing, clamming and fishing and he has no qualms about seeing them cooked before he eats them.
 
Sorry...you are wrong.
I remember her specifically,
11 Priscilla coming over with this big plate of cracked
12 plate making little plates, and I wanted to save
13 these out for JonBenet and she took them out and
14 put them in the plate.


John says.."I remember her specifically, Priscilla coming over with this big plate of cracked (crab) plate, making little plates, and I wanted to save these out for JonBenet and she took them out and put them in the plate. John said.."I wanted to save....not SHE wanted to save". And so the h*ll what if she called JB by name. WOW...that must mean that she is GUILTY of something, then. She made out a plate of cracked crab, because John asked her to, and then...(GASP!) she calls JonBenet by NAME!!! OMG!!!
I am not trying to be rude to you, but do you realize just how ridiculous that sounds??

I think it is a typo and intended to read as if Priscilla is saying "I wanted to save these out for JonBenet" and she took them....

There are typos in other interviews as well.

JMO
 

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