Crime Scene Photos #3 ***WARNING - GRAPHIC DISCUSSION***

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Hope Hot Dogs doesn't mind me chiming in here. We are going over this in the metal rod thread. That is a recount of the dialogue between RK and his co-workers back in August. It's in the Docs released 2/18.


Thank you.

How very strange.

Why on earth would he call in and say he saw a suspicious bag and a white round thing if he KNEW it was the skull?

Why wouldn't he say "I found a SKULL!! Get someone out here right now!"
 
Thank you.

How very strange.

Why on earth would he call in and say he saw a suspicious bag and a white round thing if he KNEW it was the skull?

Why wouldn't he say "I found a SKULL!! Get someone out here right now!"


I think this should be taken to a different thread (one dealing specifically with Kronk at the crime scene).
 
I think this should be taken to a different thread (one dealing specifically with Kronk at the crime scene).


That's probably a very good idea.

It does raise a question in my mind pertaining to this thread, though.

If that skull was round and white in August, why was it black when discovered? If that is the skull in the crime scene photo.....
 
FWIW...OT...well..sorta...

RE: coloring of skull

Several weeks ago (sorry, don't recall which thread), unrelated to the crime scene photos, I asked how the duct tape would still be attached to a skull if it had been originally applied to soft tissue, yet, no soft tissue remained. Similarly, since hair is attached to follicles in the skin, how could hair remain attached to the skull, and duct tape to it, if no soft tissue remained.

The paraphrased answer I got from a WS I believe to be credible on these matters is that it takes quite some time for bones (e.g. skull in this case) to bleach to the level we are used to seeing in popular culture. In the earlier stages of decomposition the dried blood in the scalp forms a glue-like adhesion holding it in place for some time, and the surface takes on a "beef jerky" (sorry) kind of appearance.

Soo....FWIW...you may want to factor this into the mental image you are using to compare what you see in pictures vs. what you are looking for in the pictures. IOW...if a skull were in the pictures...it may not be smooth & white.

Hope it helps.
 
That is OUTSTANDING!!!

Many, many kudos to someone.

May we ask who deserves the credit?

Is this your work?

It is from a friend at CTV boards, it helps to get a bit of understanding of where stuff was located. It is not perfect, but as close as the docs can get you. Pictures often cause confusion as to perspective, so having this helps.
 
It is from a friend at CTV boards, it helps to get a bit of understanding of where stuff was located. It is not perfect, but as close as the docs can get you. Pictures often cause confusion as to perspective, so having this helps.
I am blessed with good spatial skills and years of experience interpreting blueprints, working with survey equip., and doing field layout so I had no real problems building a mental image of the site scene from the narrative supplied, but I have had no end of trouble trying to explain it to other posters who aren't similarly favored.

This image is great. It should be a sticky on every site evidence thread.

Your friend did a lot of very good work. Please forward him my thanks.
 
I am blessed with good spatial skills and years of experience interpreting blueprints, working with survey equip., and doing field layout so I had no real problems building a mental image of the site scene from the narrative supplied, but I have had no end of trouble trying to explain it to other posters who aren't similarly favored.

This image is great. It should be a sticky on every site evidence thread.

Your friend did a lot of very good work. Please forward him my thanks.
Please forward copy to NG

Requires print out on some sort of elastic substrate for ease of distortion.
 
FWIW...OT...well..sorta...

RE: coloring of skull

Several weeks ago (sorry, don't recall which thread), unrelated to the crime scene photos, I asked how the duct tape would still be attached to a skull if it had been originally applied to soft tissue, yet, no soft tissue remained. Similarly, since hair is attached to follicles in the skin, how could hair remain attached to the skull, and duct tape to it, if no soft tissue remained.

The paraphrased answer I got from a WS I believe to be credible on these matters is that it takes quite some time for bones (e.g. skull in this case) to bleach to the level we are used to seeing in popular culture. In the earlier stages of decomposition the dried blood in the scalp forms a glue-like adhesion holding it in place for some time, and the surface takes on a "beef jerky" (sorry) kind of appearance.

Soo....FWIW...you may want to factor this into the mental image you are using to compare what you see in pictures vs. what you are looking for in the pictures. IOW...if a skull were in the pictures...it may not be smooth & white.

Hope it helps.


Thanks Bond. I read in the 2/18 docs somewhere (I'll look later) that most of the hair had fallen down and around the skull but was being held by the tape.
 
I followed the Louisiana Serial Killer case very closely. I knew one of the police officers involved, and I had a dear friend who worked (at that time) at the crime lab where the DNA was processed. Some of the same 'sleuths' I interacted with then---on the old Court TV forum---are here now. (Howdy, friends!) We were so blessed to have two of the victims' mothers with us. What a tower of strength and faith those women are! We had a forensic dna expert posting with us, and she really educated us. So some of our answers came before the trial, while the case was ongoing.

But to answer your question: Yes, we will learn the answer to some questions. Others we will never know. We did learn that some of what had been reported as fact was misinformation, either accidentally or intentionally "leaked" to the public.


And some of us are already getting the ":p:p:p:p right or wrong" LOL! I was wrong about something I believed LP said (he said no such thing and I swore up and down I heard him say it! but I was mistaken.) And others here have discovered the book was a sign.....I imagine none of us are 100% right!

Thanks Kgeuex. Just got back from exercising my dog (1st warmish day here in awhile) and saw you replied to my OT question. My sympathy goes out to anyone who has lost a loved one in a violent crime.

My hope is we can know the truth one day. It's not important, in the end, who is right or wrong (ego check) but that justice is served. But there's no reason to back down when you think you see what you see. Noone would have the answer to anything if they gave up after first glance (or because H.P. said so - :D).
 
Please forward copy to NG

Requires print out on some sort of elastic substrate for ease of distortion.

I think she manages more than enough distortion without the benefit of visual aids.
NG ; "Breaking News" Heart Sticker from Duct Tape Discovered!!

NG: "Go to you, TH."

TH: "You see, Nancy, if you just take this diagram I've prepared, which shows the actual location of each piece of evidence, and then fold it over this way...

(TH holds up chart and folds in front of camera.)

TH: "... then it is easily demonstrated beyond any contradiction that the heart sticker was discovered right next to the skull."
 
NG ; "Breaking News" Heart Sticker from Duct Tape Discovered!!

NG: "Go to you, TH."

TH: "You see, Nancy, if you just take this diagram I've prepared, which shows the actual location of each piece of evidence, and then fold it over this way...

(TH holds up chart and folds in front of camera.)

TH: "... then it is easily demonstrated beyond any contradiction that the heart sticker was discovered right next to the skull."
Sadly, if you read the actual transcripts from NG show they are much worse than that!
 
Regarding the skull colorization issue: I am going to a "Search and Rescue" training class this Saturday and was emailed my study materials the other day. One of the subjects deals directly with "bone weathering" and colorization/bleaching of bones. I will copy/paste a portion of the information for you:

One question often raised is how human bones will appear in the landscape. Many expect “bleached” bones (white) that will stand out in the baseline environment. This is
often not the case in a search event.

Skeletonization is “the removal of soft tissue from bone”.Full skeletonization occurs when all soft tissue is removed from the bone. Partial skeletonization occurs when soft
tissue remains on the skeleton, and only portions of bone are visible. The process of skeletonization can occur quickly or slowly, depending on many variables.

Researchers note that when a body is buried at depths of more than 4 feet, complete skeletonization may take 2-3 years. In shallow graves (less than 12 inches), this process
takes between 6-12+ months. This is generally true for most regions of North America.

Behrensmeyer describes five stages of “bone weathering”. That is, the changes to bone over time due to environmental influence (sun, soil type, and weather conditions). In stage one, the bone is still greasy, and often has soft tissue and muscle or ligament attached. Within 6 months of most surface deposits of human remains, most of the soft tissue is gone. Much of the bone bleaching of the bone by the sun, surface cracking, and
other weathering processes (stages 2-5) take a much longer time to appear (months or years).

There are six recognized and progressive stages of change to bone as a result of weathering.
• Stage 0: The bone surface is typically greasy, and may have skin or tissue connected. The bone surface has no sign of changes due to weathering, such as cracking or flaking.

• Stage 1: The bone surface shows cracking. This is usually parallel to the fiber structure. Skin and tissue may or may not be present.

• Stage 2: The bone is beginning to show flaking. This is often seen along areas of cracking, which often separate and flake before other areas.

• Stage 3: The bone is showing patches of rough, homogenously weathered bone, resulting in a fibrous texture. Weathering does not penetrate deeper than 1.0-1.5 mm, and the bone fibers remain attached to each other.

• Stage 4: The bone surface is coarsely fibrous and rough in texture, large and small splintering is observed, and may be loose enough to fall away from the bone when moved. Weathering has penetrated into the inner cavities.

• Stage 5: Bone is falling apart in situ, with splinters laying around the whole, which is fragile and easily broken by moving.
 
Thanks Bond. I read in the 2/18 docs somewhere (I'll look later) that most of the hair had fallen down and around the skull but was being held by the tape.

1st Supplemental Report, page 3378


"The skull appeared to be that of a small child. The duct tape over the

mouth area of the skull appears to have caught up the hair along the side of

the skull. This is what appears to have kept the tape in place.

The hair had to be cut in order for the tape to be properly removed in the

way it was found. ... the tape was affixed to the skull in such a manner that

the mandible was still adjacent to the skull."



2nd Supplemental Report by Sprv. Susan Mears,
Homicide Suppemental 08-122093, page 3465


"I observed a rotting log located on the west side of a small path. To the

east of this log I observed a small skull with duct tape over the lower area.

THE HAIR HAD MOSTLY FALLEN FROM THE SKULL AND WAS SURROUNDING

THE BASE OF THE SKULL ON THE GROUND. ..... Inv. Hanson moved the

rotting log located to the east of the remains."
 

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