Crime scene staging?

[BBB167893]

What would you feel in such a situation,what would be predominant,
fear of being targeted or
angry and desperate to catch the monster who did this?

That's the magic question, isn't it? Apparently, #1 for the Rs, #2 for everbody else.

They weren't poor people.I think they were aware of the fact that it won't be so easy for LE to pin it on them if they were innocent.They knew how great their lawyers were.If you know you're innocent ,if you know that your army of lawyers are competent and able to protect you from LE games why the heck not go and sit down with them and get it over with.Yes they did answer questions but I don't understand why they made it all so hard for everybody,despite of those #$%^ cops who wanted to fry them.The goal should have been catching the killer and we all know that the first hours,days are crucial.Sit down with those #^%&$ cops ,let them fry you (YOU know you're innocent,the lawyers are present,what's the big deal),it's all in the victim's interest,you gotta sacrifice something for justice to be done.So they were too sick to go down to the police station but not so sick to sit down with LK on CNN.Maybe they thought they already answered all the questions the day of the murder,I know they talked to LE that day,great.But something's not right about this and this case at all,I dunno what it is but nothing makes sense.

BRAVO. Even if the cops were out to fry them (which I don't buy), make it tough for them by not giving any excuses. The Rs had a lot more werewithal to fight for their child than most others do. So why didn't they?

 

[BBB167893]

That's probably the same red turtleneck UK Guy reckons PR used to strangle JBR. You two should get together!!

I agree, they should. Maybe they could carry on a decent conversation.

 

[BOESP]

.... Lou Smit even admitted that the fibers were incriminating.

He also said the pineapple found in the duodenum was a "bugaboo," which I interpret to mean that the pineapple was incriminating against the Ramseys. (And it is.)

 

[BOESP]

What would you feel in such a situation,what would be predominant,
fear of being targeted or
angry and desperate to catch the monster who did this?....

I consider Patsy and John (and maybe another family member) to remain as suspects in JonBenet's death. I don't see any of them as monsters. I will, however, agree that their public actions didn't indicate they were anxious to help find the offender. My opinion is one or both likely already knew what happened.

 

[DeeDee249]

That's probably the same red turtleneck UK Guy reckons PR used to strangle JBR. You two should get together!!

Actually, that is not the sweater I feel was used to strangle her, and I am not sure a sweater was used at all. When that has been discussed here, it is JB's red cotton turtleneck (the one that was found soaking in a sink outside JB's bedroom) that is mentioned as possibly being used to strangle her.

The whole family's outfits that day can be corroborated by LE, who have photographs taken at the White's. WE don't know for sure because we have not seen them.
Patsy's outfit that day (according to her, in her interview where she discussed arguing with JB over what JB was going to wear that day) consisted of black velvet jeans, a red sweater and a red/gray/black fleece sweater/jacket.
Patsy wished JB to wear matching black velvet jeans and black velvet vest with a red turtleneck so they would "match" each other. JB refused to wear the red turtleneck, insisting on the white sweatshirt with a silver sequin star, which was part of the black velvet jeans and vest outfit that Patsy had just bought for her.
So LE is not uncertain about what was worn that day. The thing they are uncertain about is whether the clothing sent to them by the Rs later is the same clothing as what they wore, or if it is, if it had been laundered or altered in any way.

 

[madeleine]

That's the magic question, isn't it? Apparently, #1 for the Rs, #2 for everbody else.



BRAVO. Even if the cops were out to fry them (which I don't buy), make it tough for them by not giving any excuses. The Rs had a lot more werewithal to fight for their child than most others do. So why didn't they?

I know and the annoying part for me is that the answer cold lead to both ,RDI and IDI.

 

[UKGuy]

Actually, that is not the sweater I feel was used to strangle her, and I am not sure a sweater was used at all. When that has been discussed here, it is JB's red cotton turtleneck (the one that was found soaking in a sink outside JB's bedroom) that is mentioned as possibly being used to strangle her.

The whole family's outfits that day can be corroborated by LE, who have photographs taken at the White's. WE don't know for sure because we have not seen them.
Her outfit that day (according to her, in her interview where she discussed arguing with JB over what JB was going to wear that day) consisted of black velvet jeans, a red sweater and a red/gray/black fleece sweater/jacket.
Patsy wished JB to wear matching black velvet jeans and black velvet vest with a red turtleneck so they would "match" each other. JB refused to wear the red turtleneck, insisting on the white sweatshirt with a silver sequin star, which was part of the black velvet jeans and vest outfit that Patsy had just bought for her.
So LE is not uncertain about what was worn that day. The thing they are uncertain about is whether the clothing sent to them by the Rs later is the same clothing as what they wore, or if it is, if it had been laundered or altered in any way.

DeeDee249,
This is Patsy's version of events which may be fabricated to explain away a prior staging. The red turtleneck may have figured somewhere e.g. JonBenet may have been wearing it when she was initially asphyxiated, later it was removed and washed to be replaced with the white gap top which then synchronises with the straight to bed explanation, or she was wearing the pink barbie nightgown, followed by the white gap top?

I reckon Patsy had a prefigured version of events in her head, but needed to factor in the red turtleneck somewhere, but in her initial statement she forgot the staging had been altered, when she said JonBenet was placed into bed wearing the red turtleneck.

Anyway lets assume there was an argument, and that Jonbenet won it and wore her white gap top. So the red turtleneck must have been clean and ready to wear, so why was it found wet and balled up, lets assume washed. There seems to be no correlation between the two events e.g. argument followed by a washing. How about crime-scene evidence followed by its removal and washing?

Some of those red fibers found at the crime-scene may just have come from the red turtleneck?


.

 

[DeeDee249]

I am not sure exactly how the red turtleneck fits in to this crime, if at all. We DO know that she wore the white Gap shirt to the White's that day, because the police have photos of her wearing it there, and ST has said this. Regardless of anyone's opinions of ST, the photo exists, and so he can't really lie about it.
As far as the pink Barbie nightie- personally I don't feel it plays a part at ALL in the events of the night because I feel it was pulled out of the dryer with the white blanket accidentally and, until it was seen in the crime photo, was not noticed by either the stagers or JR (maybe one and the same) when he brought her up. Actually, JR said, when asked about the nightie, "That wasn't supposed to be there". Right. Neither was the dead little girl.

 

[UKGuy]

I am not sure exactly how the red turtleneck fits in to this crime, if at all. We DO know that she wore the white Gap shirt to the White's that day, because the police have photos of her wearing it there, and ST has said this. Regardless of anyone's opinions of ST, the photo exists, and so he can't really lie about it.
As far as the pink Barbie nightie- personally I don't feel it plays a part at ALL in the events of the night because I feel it was pulled out of the dryer with the white blanket accidentally and, until it was seen in the crime photo, was not noticed by either the stagers or JR (maybe one and the same) when he brought her up. Actually, JR said, when asked about the nightie, "That wasn't supposed to be there". Right. Neither was the dead little girl.

DeeDee249,

I'm not too certain either, but I do not think Patsy mistakenly said red turtleneck when she meant to say white gap top. I reckon it played a part and thats why it was removed.

As far as the pink Barbie nightie- personally I don't feel it plays a part at ALL in the events of the night because I feel it was pulled out of the dryer with the white blanket accidentally and, until it was seen in the crime photo, was not noticed by either the stagers or JR (maybe one and the same) when he brought her up. Actually, JR said, when asked about the nightie, "That wasn't supposed to be there". Right. Neither was the dead little girl.

Well that is my point entirely, just because we cannot envisage any use or scenario for either the red turtleneck or the pink barbie nightgown, does not mean they never played some role in the staging.

The pink barbie nightgown may have been intended to be worn by JonBenet as part of the staging, just as her size-12's were, size-6's removed etc, so why not the red turtleneck, white gap top, or pink nightgown as the staging changes and we know it does?

I'm more convinced that the pink barbie gown was intended or had been part of a prior staging since it was found at the crime-scene which I reckon is 99% staged, then its not there by accident e.g. the size-6's were removed, so why not the nightgown or was this intended to suggest that the intruder was redressing JonBenet or stealing her clothing?

.

 

[DeeDee249]

DeeDee249,

I'm not too certain either, but I do not think Patsy mistakenly said red turtleneck when she meant to say white gap top. I reckon it played a part and thats why it was removed.


Well that is my point entirely, just because we cannot envisage any use or scenario for either the red turtleneck or the pink barbie nightgown, does not mean they never played some role in the staging.

The pink barbie nightgown may have been intended to be worn by JonBenet as part of the staging, just as her size-12's were, size-6's removed etc, so why not the red turtleneck, white gap top, or pink nightgown as the staging changes and we know it does?

I'm more convinced that the pink barbie gown was intended or had been part of a prior staging since it was found at the crime-scene which I reckon is 99% staged, then its not there by accident e.g. the size-6's were removed, so why not the nightgown or was this intended to suggest that the intruder was redressing JonBenet or stealing her clothing?

.

If the nightie was intended to be either put ON her or put WITH her, then, to me, it speaks even more loudly of parental staging. That was said to be her favorite nightie, and only her family would have known that- certainly not a stranger or SFF. However, LHP would have probably known that as well....
I still maintain the nightie was artifact. Something that ended up in the crime scene by accident.

 

[Ames]

I am not sure exactly how the red turtleneck fits in to this crime, if at all. We DO know that she wore the white Gap shirt to the White's that day, because the police have photos of her wearing it there, and ST has said this. Regardless of anyone's opinions of ST, the photo exists, and so he can't really lie about it.
As far as the pink Barbie nightie- personally I don't feel it plays a part at ALL in the events of the night because I feel it was pulled out of the dryer with the white blanket accidentally and, until it was seen in the crime photo, was not noticed by either the stagers or JR (maybe one and the same) when he brought her up. Actually, JR said, when asked about the nightie, "That wasn't supposed to be there". Right. Neither was the dead little girl.

Does anyone know for sure that the red turtle neck was not worn UNDER the white gap shirt? When we moved to Montana, one of the very first things that we did, was go out and buy turtlenecks of every color....for my daughter to wear under a top layer. I agree with you about that Barbie gown. IMO...it came out of that dryer..via static cling. It was...imo...attached to that blanket that she was found wrapped in. Even John Ramsey himself....(and for those of you that haven't read the interviews...please do so....they are VERY enlightening)....said...and I quote..."that was not supposed to be there", referring to the barbie nightgown. I do believe that was a slip up on his part. IMO...he meant that the Barbie nightgown wasn't supposed to be there...because it was not placed there...to his knowledge...by neither he nor Patsy. He didn't realize that it was attached to the blanket that one of them...I don't know which one....but I do believe that it was ONE of them....pulled from the dryer. And IMO...that is the reason that John said that the Barbie nightgown was "not supposed to be there". My daughter used to have a Barbie night gown like that...and it was always full of static cling. Even when I tossed a dryer sheet in. It would even stick to itself!!!!! I would have to pull it apart just to be able to put it on my daughter...and it would crackle and pop....and yes...even snap. She eventually quit wearing it, because she didn't like it sticking to her.

 

[claudicici]

I have never read where he said that...I'm just floored...saying "that was not supposed to be there" is essentially admitting to staging (which I never really believed in)...if that was "not supposed to be there"...everything else WAS supposed to there...

 

[MurriFlower]

DeeDee249,

I'm not too certain either, but I do not think Patsy mistakenly said red turtleneck when she meant to say white gap top. I reckon it played a part and thats why it was removed.


Well that is my point entirely, just because we cannot envisage any use or scenario for either the red turtleneck or the pink barbie nightgown, does not mean they never played some role in the staging.

The pink barbie nightgown may have been intended to be worn by JonBenet as part of the staging, just as her size-12's were, size-6's removed etc, so why not the red turtleneck, white gap top, or pink nightgown as the staging changes and we know it does?

I'm more convinced that the pink barbie gown was intended or had been part of a prior staging since it was found at the crime-scene which I reckon is 99% staged, then its not there by accident e.g. the size-6's were removed, so why not the nightgown or was this intended to suggest that the intruder was redressing JonBenet or stealing her clothing?

.

Wasn't the Barbie nightgown under the pillow? I think it was the one she wore the previous night.

 

[joeskidbeck]

I agree with DeeDee that the nightgown came out of the dryer with the blanket. It amazes me that JR recognized the nightgown as being like the one that JB's Barbie wore but did not recognize it as one that JB wore. WTH??? This is in one of the interviews.
I lean towards the red turtleneck being put on JB when she was getting ready for bed so that she would be partially ready to get on the plane the next morning. It was balled up and in the sink because she had it on when she was injured (head bash or strangulation) and someone feared there may be evidence on it. They had to put the white shirt back on her to fit the story they told about her being asleep when they got home.

 

[DeeDee249]

Wasn't the Barbie nightgown under the pillow? I think it was the one she wore the previous night.

No. The pink garment seen on JB's bed that had been under the pillow was the pink pajama top that JB wore on Christmas Eve, and she can be seen wearing it in the Christmas morning photos.
In one of Patsy's interviews, Patsy discusses getting a sleeping JB ready for bed, and looking for her pajamas which were under her pillow. Patsy said she found the top, but couldn't find the bottoms, and that's why she grabbed the longjohns. She also said she decided to just let her sleep in the white Gap shirt.
Whether you believe JB was asleep or awake at that point, this still works. The photo of the bed shows the pillow moved out of place, exactly as it might of someone pulled it away to look for pajamas. You can see the pink top. I think the bottoms weren't there because JB had probably wet them and they were in the wash.

 

[DeeDee249]

As far as whether JB wore the red turtleneck under the white Gap top- there are photos that indicate exactly what JB wore to the White's and the red turtleneck would clearly be able to be seen sticking out at the neck of the white shirt, which had a crew neck.
So does anyone know for sure? Yes. Anyone who has seen those photos. Unfortunately, not us.

 

[Ames]

I have never read where he said that...I'm just floored...saying "that was not supposed to be there" is essentially admitting to staging (which I never really believed in)...if that was "not supposed to be there"...everything else WAS supposed to there...

Exactly! It is in one of his interviews...I will try and find it for you.

 

[Ames]

Exactly! It is in one of his interviews...I will try and find it for you.

Can anyone provide me with a link to JR 98 Interview?? I tried www.acandyrose.com, but for some reason it wouldn't take me to the interviews. I wonder if John has paid someone to remove them??

 

[claudicici]

yes,they were talking about it on another thread,the interviews seem to be gone from various websites!!!

 

[MurriFlower]

yes,they were talking about it on another thread,the interviews seem to be gone from various websites!!!

Pooff!! Disappeared..... Even the cashed removed.