Crime scene staging?

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Sure. Sometimes it is what it is. And you are right - it did seem like a vicious murder. But, remember, the Ramsey's had an awful long time to adjust and revise their plan. Perhaps the murder did not look so evil at 2am - too much like a family member did it. Perhaps by 4am it was starting to look like an evil intruder, but by 6am - they had it down.......
 
Brefie said:
Sure. Sometimes it is what it is. And you are right - it did seem like a vicious murder. But, remember, the Ramsey's had an awful long time to adjust and revise their plan. Perhaps the murder did not look so evil at 2am - too much like a family member did it. Perhaps by 4am it was starting to look like an evil intruder, but by 6am - they had it down.......
What were JBR's proposed injuries at 2am? IOW what were they 'covering up'?
 
Holdontoyourhat said:
What IYO were her fatal injuries that were later revised to make them appear more vicious?


HOTYH,

IMO the fatal injury was the accidental strangulation of JonBenet during an erotic asphyxiation session with the perp, who was a male family member or his accomplice. Everything alse that followed was staged to make it look like a vicious kidnap-murder.
 
BlueCrab said:
HOTYH,

IMO the fatal injury was the accidental strangulation of JonBenet during an erotic asphyxiation session with the perp, who was a male family member or his accomplice. Everything alse that followed was staged to make it look like a vicious kidnap-murder.

I tend to agree. The revising that I refer to tho, was perhaps where they would leave JBR. Perhaps they had initially wanted to lay her in her bed....nope, too cosy for a dangerous stranger to be responsible....later came the note - not gory enough (there are missing pages from the tablet), then perhaps a few attempts later the final RN was ready.
Maybe I misspoke, I didn't necessarily mean that the injuries themselves were revised - but the whole scene - making it look like an evil perp had been vicious in his methods.

I guess the point I am trying to make is that while I believe a Ramsey did it - I don't believe they were evil monsters who carried the whole thing out with evil at the forefront of their minds. That she was wrapped in a blankie somewhat supports this.
 
BlueCrab said:
HOTYH,

IMO the fatal injury was the accidental strangulation of JonBenet during an erotic asphyxiation session with the perp, who was a male family member or his accomplice. Everything alse that followed was staged to make it look like a vicious kidnap-murder.
IYO, was the "deep furrow" around JBR's neck part of the accident or part of the coverup? Was the headbash part of the accident, or part of the coverup?
 
Brefie said:
I tend to agree. The revising that I refer to tho, was perhaps where they would leave JBR. Perhaps they had initially wanted to lay her in her bed....nope, too cosy for a dangerous stranger to be responsible....later came the note - not gory enough (there are missing pages from the tablet), then perhaps a few attempts later the final RN was ready.
Maybe I misspoke, I didn't necessarily mean that the injuries themselves were revised - but the whole scene - making it look like an evil perp had been vicious in his methods.

I guess the point I am trying to make is that while I believe a Ramsey did it - I don't believe they were evil monsters who carried the whole thing out with evil at the forefront of their minds. That she was wrapped in a blankie somewhat supports this.
So JBR, severely garroted and headbashed, doesn't look viciously murdered as long as she's in her bedroom?

If they were going for vicious, why would they wrap her in a blankie? Doesn't that defeat their purpose?
 
Holdontoyourhat said:
So JBR, severely garroted and headbashed, doesn't look viciously murdered as long as she's in her bedroom?

If they were going for vicious, why would they wrap her in a blankie? Doesn't that defeat their purpose?

No. not what I said. Lots of people believe that when a person kills a loved one, even when they hope to get away with it there will be hints of 'comfort' for the victim at the murder scene.
 
Brefie said:
No. not what I said. Lots of people believe that when a person kills a loved one, even when they hope to get away with it there will be hints of 'comfort' for the victim at the murder scene.
IMO the intruder was vicious, but at the same time has respect for the deceased. The RN was also vicious, and yet raised the issue of JBR's remains and a proper burial.

His actions matched his words.
 
Holdontoyourhat said:
IMO the intruder was vicious, but at the same time has respect for the deceased. The RN was also vicious, and yet raised the issue of JBR's remains and a proper burial.

His actions matched his words.

You don't know it whoever wrote it was a 'he'. Incidentally, Patsy couldn't be excluded.........
 
Why would an intruder leave the ransom note?

The child was already dead. An intruder would have to know that her body would be found in the house - either by LE or by the Ramseys.

Leaving a note for a ransom that you know you're never going to get would just be leaving uneccessary evidence behind.

An outside intruder could not have been "monitoring the house" - not with all the LE that was around.

So - why didn't the intruder ever call with further instructions for the ransom drop-off? Why didn't JR even take note of it when they didn't call when they said they would? Why wasn't he concerned about leaving the phone lines open all morning? I believe he made several calls from the very phone number the kidnappers would be expected to call to.

If you had a note that your child was being held and your house was being watched - wouldn't you ask LE to remove their cars from your driveway?

Wouldn't you be concerned about that? Wouldn't you say......."but the house is being watched! And they'll see the police cars here! We have to get them moved!"
 
Holdontoyourhat said:
IYO, was the "deep furrow" around JBR's neck part of the accident or part of the coverup? Was the headbash part of the accident, or part of the coverup?
I think the deep furrow was part of the accident. I think the headbash was to finish her off/part of the cover-up.
 
wenchie said:
Why would an intruder leave the ransom note?

The child was already dead. An intruder would have to know that her body would be found in the house - either by LE or by the Ramseys.

Leaving a note for a ransom that you know you're never going to get would just be leaving uneccessary evidence behind.

An outside intruder could not have been "monitoring the house" - not with all the LE that was around.

So - why didn't the intruder ever call with further instructions for the ransom drop-off? Why didn't JR even take note of it when they didn't call when they said they would? Why wasn't he concerned about leaving the phone lines open all morning? I believe he made several calls from the very phone number the kidnappers would be expected to call to.

If you had a note that your child was being held and your house was being watched - wouldn't you ask LE to remove their cars from your driveway?

Wouldn't you be concerned about that? Wouldn't you say......."but the house is being watched! And they'll see the police cars here! We have to get them moved!"

All good points - that last one is GREAT! :clap: :clap: :clap:
 
Brefie said:
All good points - that last one is GREAT! :clap: :clap: :clap:

Not really. The parents' call to 911 should tell you they weren't going to bow down to extortion, reward kidnappers, or deal with the kidnappers by themselves.

The idea of not calling 911, getting $118K, not calling anyone, and waiting by the phone for hours and hours seems like rewarding kidnappers to me. Pretty soon we'll all be working for them.
 
Holdontoyourhat said:
Not really. The parents' call to 911 should tell you they weren't going to bow down to extortion, reward kidnappers, or deal with the kidnappers by themselves.

The idea of not calling 911, getting $118K, not calling anyone, and waiting by the phone for hours and hours seems like rewarding kidnappers to me. Pretty soon we'll all be working for them.

The parents call to 911 tells me they knew a kidnapper was not going behead JBR.

So you get a ranson note threatening to do all kinds of awful things to your baby and your reaction is to be righteous and not bow down? LMAO

Pretty sure you don't wake up to find your daughter missing, find a ransom note and think, "I'll show THEM!"
 
Holdontoyourhat said:
Not really. The parents' call to 911 should tell you they weren't going to bow down to extortion, reward kidnappers, or deal with the kidnappers by themselves.

The idea of not calling 911, getting $118K, not calling anyone, and waiting by the phone for hours and hours seems like rewarding kidnappers to me. Pretty soon we'll all be working for them.

I would think that most people would be more concerned with their daughter than with proving a point to some criminals.

Of course....most people would immediately call the police. But if they believed the house was being watched, they wouldn't want it to be made obvious that LE was at the house. Yet....they showed no concern about it.

They were supposedly being "monitored". I guess that's why John didn't seem anxious about the phone call from the kidnappers - or even seemed to notice when the time for the call passed by with no call.

He knew that the monitors had seen the police car at the house and weren't going to call. His daughter would now be beheaded.

I don't buy it, although I'm sure that a lot of people do.
 
wenchie said:
I would think that most people would be more concerned with their daughter than with proving a point to some criminals.

Of course....most people would immediately call the police. But if they believed the house was being watched, they wouldn't want it to be made obvious that LE was at the house. Yet....they showed no concern about it.

They were supposedly being "monitored". I guess that's why John didn't seem anxious about the phone call from the kidnappers - or even seemed to notice when the time for the call passed by with no call.

He knew that the monitors had seen the police car at the house and weren't going to call. His daughter would now be beheaded.

I don't buy it, although I'm sure that a lot of people do.

Its possible you have a responsibility to your kidnapped child to call the police. The kidnapper could be deranged. Suppose something bad happens to your child while in the hands of a deranged person, and you didn't call the police?

Suppose the kidnapper is local, and the anticipated phone call comes. The police are then able to trace it to help find your child.

Suppose the phone call doesn't come, but the police acting on your description spot them.

There's way more reasons for the R's to call the police than handle it themselves. You're not questioning the R's decision to call the police. You're questioning JR's response.

Whatever happens after the 911 call is actually a joint R-BPD issue. IOW you have to ask BPD why they weren't concerned about the driveway or the street either.
 
Brefie said:
The parents call to 911 tells me they knew a kidnapper was not going behead JBR.
The parents call to 911 tells you the parents called 911.

Brefie said:
So you get a ranson note threatening to do all kinds of awful things to your baby and your reaction is to be righteous and not bow down? LMAO
Uh, yeah.

Brefie said:
Pretty sure you don't wake up to find your daughter missing, find a ransom note and think, "I'll show THEM!"
No, but I'll call 911 for sure.
 

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