Hello I have followed Websleuths for a long time finally decided to chime in.

[DetailDiscerner]

The circumstances of this case are totally befuddling I read on the reddit board a post detailing 41 fallacies concerning evidence and statements etc...

There is much sorting out to do to get a very clear picture and It will be difficult to source the material I am going to review but if it must be done I will attempt to do so. Hopefully many Websleuths will recognize the details I mention so to corroborate what I present.

I will start off slowly.

First I want to address what we know about before the Ramsey's arrived home.

We don't really know is basically the answer. In some statements posted Patsy and John say Jonbenet was "zonked" out sleeping and was carried into the house and upstairs to her bed.
Curiously Burke says she was awake and walked upstairs on her own?
Did he say this to protect the parents?
Nobody but the Ramsey's know what really happened.

Does everyone agree?

I'm sorry if I can't recall the Websleuth that recently posted about how they were pulled over by police for running a stop sign and their very young child exclaimed to the officer that the mom always stopped at stop signs, obviously defending the mom who was surprised at the child''s behavior IIRC.

Does anyone remember this post?

Anyhow There is really no way to know what actually happened after the Ramsey's left the party except for the 2 stops they made at their friends houses (to be explored in another post.)

The Ramsey's stated that they decided not to make a 3rd stop because it might take too long? I think they said it would take another hour.

I wonder about this because the kids if they were not asleep or were asleep could have fallen asleep and Ramsey's said they were leaving town the next morning. Also it was not extremely late either. I think they stated Around 9:30 pm.

Did something happen en route home?

Was Jonbenet OK when she was carried inside the house?

We really don't know.

There is also the pineapple to consider, did Jonbenet eat it at the party? I think it has been said that the pineapple had the rind on it which was in her digestive system, was it Fleet White that said when asked if they had pineapple at the party, said he didn't believe so? What were in the gift baskets was it big baskets of fruit with a pineapple?
Did the Whites receive a gift basket from the Ramsey's?

I often cut fresh pineapple into slices, then into wedges with the rind still on but nobody eats the rind, the rind is held and the fruity part is bitten off of it. Pineapple rind is not very palatable and is hard and has sharp pointy edges ,even if the rind is trimmed if small pieces are still there they are some unpalatable.

So to begin with we have lots of questions before the Ramsey's even get home!

I've read 2 different friends who were to be the last friends visited with gifts or gift basket, do we know for sure which friend was the last stop which was aborted?

There can be many scenarios of which we just don't know.

I tend to think along with many Websleuths that Burke somehow accidentally injured and killed Jonbenet and the parents staged a cover-up but the 2 ghoulish injuries that are considered by experts to have happened some time distance apart (Ligature strangulation/cracked and caved in skull), seems to have no reasonable explanation but there has been other parents who have inflicted horrifying injuries and killings of their children as well as many cases where intruders have entered houses and committed crimes some where the intruder has entered earlier when the home is empty and then have hidden until the family goes to sleep?

I can't help to think as in many cold case crime shows on TV that there is something that is being missed or overlooked even if the BPD bungled the entire investigation and did not escort the Ramsey's out of the house as soon as they arrived and read the ransom note, and then cordon off the entire property and house as a crime scene.

 

[ispywithmylittleeye]

The circumstances of this case are totally befuddling I read on the reddit board a post detailing 41 fallacies concerning evidence and statements etc...

There is much sorting out to do to get a very clear picture and It will be difficult to source the material I am going to review but if it must be done I will attempt to do so. Hopefully many Websleuths will recognize the details I mention so to corroborate what I present.

I will start off slowly.

First I want to address what we know about before the Ramsey's arrived home.

We don't really know is basically the answer. In some statements posted Patsy and John say Jonbenet was "zonked" out sleeping and was carried into the house and upstairs to her bed.
Curiously Burke says she was awake and walked upstairs on her own?
Did he say this to protect the parents?
Nobody but the Ramsey's know what really happened.

Does everyone agree?

I'm sorry if I can't recall the Websleuth that recently posted about how they were pulled over by police for running a stop sign and their very young child exclaimed to the officer that the mom always stopped at stop signs, obviously defending the mom who was surprised at the child''s behavior IIRC.

Does anyone remember this post?

Anyhow There is really no way to know what actually happened after the Ramsey's left the party except for the 2 stops they made at their friends houses (to be explored in another post.)

The Ramsey's stated that they decided not to make a 3rd stop because it might take too long? I think they said it would take another hour.

I wonder about this because the kids if they were not asleep or were asleep could have fallen asleep and Ramsey's said they were leaving town the next morning. Also it was not extremely late either. I think they stated Around 9:30 pm.

Did something happen en route home?

Was Jonbenet OK when she was carried inside the house?

We really don't know.

There is also the pineapple to consider, did Jonbenet eat it at the party? I think it has been said that the pineapple had the rind on it which was in her digestive system, was it Fleet White that said when asked if they had pineapple at the party, said he didn't believe so? What were in the gift baskets was it big baskets of fruit with a pineapple?
Did the Whites receive a gift basket from the Ramsey's?

I often cut fresh pineapple into slices, then into wedges with the rind still on but nobody eats the rind, the rind is held and the fruity part is bitten off of it. Pineapple rind is not very palatable and is hard and has sharp pointy edges ,even if the rind is trimmed if small pieces are still there they are some unpalatable.

So to begin with we have lots of questions before the Ramsey's even get home!

I've read 2 different friends who were to be the last friends visited with gifts or gift basket, do we know for sure which friend was the last stop which was aborted?

There can be many scenarios of which we just don't know.

I tend to think along with many Websleuths that Burke somehow accidentally injured and killed Jonbenet and the parents staged a cover-up but the 2 ghoulish injuries that are considered by experts to have happened some time distance apart (Ligature strangulation/cracked and caved in skull), seems to have no reasonable explanation but there has been other parents who have inflicted horrifying injuries and killings of their children as well as many cases where intruders have entered houses and committed crimes some where the intruder has entered earlier when the home is empty and then have hidden until the family goes to sleep?

I can't help to think as in many cold case crime shows on TV that there is something that is being missed or overlooked even if the BPD bungled the entire investigation and did not escort the Ramsey's out of the house as soon as they arrived and read the ransom note, and then cordon off the entire property and house as a crime scene.

Welcome DetailDiscerner .
That was my child many years who had my back so to speak...
I watched a video done by True Crime Rocket Science. He was of the idea that the ligature was applied first and that is why there was very little blood in the skull cavity as the supply had been cut off. I'm not sure if this is can be verified but it's a darn good theory!
Pathology anyone?

 

[Swirlz]

I tend to think along with many Websleuths that Burke somehow accidentally injured and killed Jonbenet and the parents staged a cover-up

The idea that the killing was an accident is an internet creation. The Burke theory was first brought to public attention in 2011 by an investigator named Kolar who reviewed evidence while working briefly for the Boulder DA in 2005. He did not believe the killing was an accident. Kolar believed JonBenet was strangled very intentionally. The cause of death was strangulation.

Kolar was the only investigator to draw the conclusion Burke was the killer. Kolar's theory quickly took over the internet when a series based on his theory was aired in 2016 by CBS.

The detective who was present at the time the body was recovered, the detective who took over for her as lead investigator and the Boulder Chief of Police all believed a parent was responsible for prior abuse and murder although they remained divided on which particular parent.

 

[Ponytale]

The idea that the killing was an accident is an internet creation. The Burke theory was first brought to public attention in 2011 by an investigator named Kolar who reviewed evidence while working briefly for the Boulder DA in 2005. He did not believe the killing was an accident. Kolar believed JonBenet was strangled very intentionally. The cause of death was strangulation.

Kolar was the only investigator to draw the conclusion Burke was the killer. Kolar's theory quickly took over the internet when a series based on his theory was aired in 2016 by CBS.

The detective who was present at the time the body was recovered, the detective who took over for her as lead investigator and the Boulder Chief of Police all believed a parent was responsible for prior abuse and murder although they remained divided on which particular parent.

All the ideas are someone's creations. Until we all know for the fact what exactly happened and how, no idea should be diminished.

I have believed Burke is involved in this crime since I first was introduced to this case in 2001, and I have never been persuaded to believe anything else, keeping up with the case since then. We all have the right to form our theories. I believe there are many more than me who have believed Burke's involvement long before 2016, and doing so without any help from Kolar or CBS. Although I must say, that CBS series was an eye-opener for many.

 

[Swirlz]

You say no idea should be diminished, I'm not trying to be sarcastic but does that include intruder theories? Based on the evidence that has been made public, the intruder theory is as likely as BDI.

 

[Ponytale]

I thought about IDI theories as I wrote that comment. I see it as, if someone could finally deliver an IDI theory that would make absolute sense and be believable, I would love to read it. But again, even the Ramsey's themselves have failed to do so, so I won't get my hopes up.
Nevertheless, we all have the right to present our opinions and theories, so yes, if there are firm IDI believers they too should not be diminished. We are all here for the same reason, aren't we. It is our choice to believe or not to believe and no-one should feel silenced for thinking differently.

 

[Swirlz]

Burke was a child and may also have been exposed to or may have experienced abuse. I think people should keep that in mind before they jump in to blame him.

 

[Ponytale]

Burke was a child and may also have been exposed to or may have experienced abuse. I think people should keep that in mind before they jump in to blame him.

And I think the same way as you do. Of course he may have been abused, we do not know that he was not. We know very little about his childhood behavior, his friends, his classmates and as there is also some conflicting information, I can not take any of it as a fact.

As I believe in my theory that there was an accident I do not blame Burke for anything. I believe he was a child who was scared and shocked of what had happened and he deserves no blame for that. I see that he did not mean for it to happen and to this day may be very sorry.
Blame only serves if it was an intentional act and we know who deserves to be blamed.

 

[ShyestButterfly]

The idea that the killing was an accident is an internet creation.

In murder, there isn't always an intent to kill. That's why there are multiple degrees of homicide charges, plus manslaughter, and "with intent to cause bodily harm", and all these little addendums within the justice system.

Behaviorally, an attack or an act of abuse isn't usually meant to end in the death of the victim. But it's always a risk, one that abusers are frequently willing to take or simply ignore. That's how we end up with dead children like Jonbenet, and a family frantically trying to cover their tracks.

It's not "letting them off the hook" or somehow excusing a crime or making it seem less severe to speculate that maybe the Ramsey couple didn't want to kill Jonbenet. The fact they did, however, and hurt their daughter so terribly, and have now lied and had others lie for them, still makes them monsters whom I wish would just rot in prison for eternity at this point.

 

[ispywithmylittleeye]

Burke was a child and may also have been exposed to or may have experienced abuse. I think people should keep that in mind before they jump in to blame him.

I'm going to add that it may not have been by a family member.
I had an attorney friend who represented many abuse victims in the 90s. This most likely influences my theories.