Deceased/Not Found CT - Jennifer Dulos, 50, New Canaan, 24 May 2019 *ARRESTS* #51

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Seattle1 said:
I'd never heard that before. I suppose the call from Greece was supposed to be another alibi for FD that he was in the office on 5/24 in the morning talking on the landline to Andrea versus out stalking and murdering his wife.

It also explains why MT was hesitant to answer FD's cell phone but I believe it also confirms that KM most likely witnessed the hesitation by MT to answer the ringing cell phone on the desk that was a point of annoyance to KM, and/or his trying to cover his own tracks with phone evidence that he was in-fact at the Fore Group office and not with FD when the murder was actively committed.

MOO
Click to expand...
How did KM witness MT's hesitation to answer the 8:24am call from Andreas, when KM pinged at 4JX from 7:29 am-8:22 am. He left 2 minutes before the call came in
 
Megnut said:
Excellent reporting.

It almost looks like she's snuffing out a cigarette. As an excuse to look in the drain? Perhaps previous drains didn't pass whatever test? Or maybe the drain became an opportunity when she spied it?

It looks like FD has the FedEx box. Second thoughts about trashing it? So maybe it was MT's brainchild to sewer it?

Absolute trash. Odyssey of callousness.

JMO
Click to expand...

I also wondered if MT was looking in the drain. Is it clear? Is there room? Don't imagine that FD had much experience peering into storm drains.

To me, the significant pause before (at least 10-12 seconds) FD and MT open the doors of the truck almost simultaneously is important.....IMO, there was a short conversation at that point about what was going to be happening next. MT keeps her door open to block the view, as FD's body blocks the view from the other direction as he deposits the box in the storm drain.

That pause might have been longer, but we have only seen a short video. (BTW...count out 1 Mississippi, etc. to 10...that's a significant amount of time.)

How in the heck did MT get gum on her hands while sitting in the truck talking with Petu? Didn't LE ask how this happened if she was just sitting in the truck. Or were her hands sticky from tape? Such a silly lie. :p
 
Morgan10028 said:
How did KM witness MT's hesitation to answer the 8:24am call from Andreas, when KM pinged at 4JX from 7:29 am-8:22 am. He left 2 minutes before the call came in
Click to expand...

I'm not sure of your reference but seriously -- a phone ping within 2 minutes is hardly the exact moment of departure from any given residence.

This is a topic beyond one post and involves an 8-hour clock, tower distance, and signal strength, (and hours of technical, expert witness testimony). Generally, in a residential environment -- the range is most likely about 12-15 minutes and about 20 miles but there are many exceptions.

For example, I've been known to be sitting at SEATAC airport when my phone is still pinging the location where I boarded the ferry. Cellular signal penetration is a well-known problem in airports caused by numerous factors. IMO, a two-minute variance is negligible.
 
KM has a lot to answer to in this saga. The gun club, both the grave and the phone ping at 11pm on the 31st after Albany was on the news and FD/MT went to Litchfield to give DNA samples and then went to the Residence Inn, where they were shortly taken into custody very late on the 31st.
And then the situation involving gas can-crow bar man at STBXs house in the spring.
Lying in his interview and saying he didn't recall FD calling him on the 24th while dumping garbage on Albany- which he seemingly suddenly has now remembered.
Why didn’t he tell LE originally that he overheard FD and MT talking about getting rid of JD on the 23rd? If he said he wanted nothing to do with it?
Why did he run when he heard he was going to be arrested?
None of this suggests innocence at all.

On the other hand, are there any possible scenarios at all which are plausible, in which FD set up KM, and he is more innocent than less? (Still hard to imagine he’s wholly innocent). Despite the above caveats that suggest his guilt?
The first we heard about a KM plea deal was actually quite early, mid February, just after FD was dead and when KM had been in prison only about a month. How soon after his arrest did KM start talking to LE? Why did it take so long for him to have the recorded interview in August, COVID shut things down, but really that long?

I am running my mind through possibilities in which FD set KM up in ways that KM might not have been aware of when they were happening. Reviewing coverage, I did find it striking that FD told KM STBX that KM didn’t know FD was calling her to set up the reconciliation (see below). Hmm. So FD was calling KM STBX of his own initiative and KM didn’t know? And just a few days later FD murdered JD?
Then why didn’t KM say anything way back in June 2019 when he was charged with violating the restraining order, by having FD set them up to meet? Wouldn’t KM have put 2+2 together then? Wouldn’t he defend himself back then, that he didn’t violate the order but FD had set him up?

Clearly FD tried to frame PG his employee, and PG went straight to a lawyer and got himself exonerated and out of the mess lickety split. Why didn’t KM do the same? Instead hemmed and hawed and “didn’t remember” and has all this mess with his STBX and the gun club?

It will be veeerrry interesting to hear what KM shared in his interview. Clearly it’s serious, since JS proclaimed it was “incriminating evidence” for his client, and is only hoping to be able to bring him down under cross examination. So we know it’s bad, if JS admitted to that publicly. It has to be more than just overhearing them talk about it the night of the 23rd. Nearly 2 hours of recording...

Wondering if it’s worth trying to go back and view it through a lens as if KM didn’t actually know what was going on until the 23rd, did FD somehow set him up? Are there any plausabilities there?
NP made it sound like they were possibly going to try to pin the “FD found the bags of trash on his lawn and panicked so he dumped them on Albany” scenario on KM, NP said it was one of the known players in the case who dumped the bags on the lawn. (Which we know isn’t true.) was the plan to pin it on KM all along?
What scenario could FD have had in mind by luring KM STBX to 4 JC? Did KM really not know FD was calling STBX? How did FD find out about the $300 Macy’s charge then for example?
KM clearly has/had a lot of explaining to do.

“Mawhinney’s wife said she first received a call from Fotis Dulos on May 16, asking her to consider reconciling her marriage.
The woman said Fotis Dulos told her Mawhinney still loved her but he didn’t know he was calling her, court documents state.”
....
Fotis Dulos contacted the woman the next day to report that Mawhinney agreed to pay $1,800 for health insurance for her and her children from a previous marriage, the court documents said. The couple does not have children together.
Fotis Dulos called the woman again the following day to tell her Mawhinney was threatening to have her charged with fraud over a $300 Macy’s bill, court documents state.”

Court filing: Fotis Dulos offered house as sex pad to help mend lawyer's marriage
 
sleuth66 said:
Not necessarily, in the Navin case Valiente (girlfriend) got a plea deal with reduced sentence but didn’t admit guilt, tell everything she knew, or cooperate with the state. (Alford plea- see clip below). She plead guilty to hindering prosecution in exchange for dropping the conspiracy charge.
A familiar cast of characters in this case to boot (and not just the ponytailed goblin, indeed, Colangelo has said he and his team learned a lot from the Navin case that they’re applying in the Dulos investigation.)

It’s worth reading Valiente’s arrest warrant- how she followed behind KN and lied about it just like MT, the text messages, the bleach and cleaning supplies, the taped together trash bags- you will see MT to a T in JV here. For me the question is will MT be able to get away with something similar? That’s where KM comes in...
https://westportnow.com/JenniferValianteArrestWarrant.pdf

“Defense Attorney Norm Pattis has been involved in cases similar to the Jennifer Dulos case.
In the spring of 2015, husband and wife Jeffrey and Janette Navin vanished.
Just like in the Dulos case, police searched through landfills, searching for the remains of the couple.
In that case, it was their own son and his girlfriend who quickly became the prime suspects in their deaths and disappearances.
Pattis said there are similarities to what’s happening right now.
“There is a body somewhere in CT, and that body will tell a story,” Pattis said.
Watching the developments from afar, he said it is a fascinating, yet heartbreaking case.
This missing mother of five is presumed dead, but just where the body of Jennifer Dulos is, is the question everyone wants answered.
“I woke up this morning thinking of the family of the missing woman and how anguished they are,” Pattis said, adding that the Dulos case reminds him of the deaths of Jeffrey and Jeanette Navin.
In April of 2015, the Navin couple disappeared from their Easton home.
Months later their bodies were found under a pile of leaves behind a house.
Their son Kyle Navin is now serving 55 years for killing his parents.
His girlfriend, Jennifer Valiente, whom Pattis represented, is serving eight years in prison for conspiracy to commit murder and hindering prosecution.
“Our defense there was mere presence. Mr. Navin was the killer we contended, we never participated with the state or cooperated. We were asked to, but it was never my client’s intention to do that,” Pattis said.”
Local defense attorney weighs in on case of missing mom
Note: this was before NP took on FD as a client, in case it sounds a bit anachronistic.
Click to expand...

Thank you so much for all of this information! I will read it several times and I’m sure, learn more on each reading. Thank you for taking the time and making the effort to write all of this. We are so very lucky on this forum to have so many smart, experienced, compassionate people here!
 
Megnut said:
Excellent reporting.

It almost looks like she's snuffing out a cigarette. As an excuse to look in the drain? Perhaps previous drains didn't pass whatever test? Or maybe the drain became an opportunity when she spied it?

It looks like FD has the FedEx box. Second thoughts about trashing it? So maybe it was MT's brainchild to sewer it?

Absolute trash. Odyssey of callousness.

JMO
Click to expand...

I know this is a small matter to even think of but what if they’d clogged up the pipe? Or someone found it? Who puts a FedEx box in a sewer? MOO.
 
Morgan10028 said:
I think he believed it would be gone forever, irretrievable. I think MT thought so too. Can't wait to hear her response to that one. And what about that large mat from Jennifer's suburban that he walked by her door and dropped right before her eyes? Nope, didn't question him about that either?

And if FD was just dumping garbage because he didn't want to pay for a dumpster, then why drop one bag at a time when there is clearly room in each receptacle for more bags? Troconis knows the answers to all of these questions, and the jurors will too. She was complicit. MOO
Click to expand...

Oh, gosh, yes; these stories are ridiculously thin and as full of holes as they are devoid of logic. MOO.
 
HopeForTheBest said:
I know this is a small matter to even think of but what if they’d clogged up the pipe? Or someone found it? Who puts a FedEx box in a sewer? MOO.
Click to expand...

When we originally discussed why FD and MT might have put the FedEx box in the drain, it was suggested that maybe the idea was to have the box collected by another player/someone they hoped to set-up.

Following @sleuth66 exploring the feasibility of FD and MT possibly having attempted to play-up KW’s role (while also setting up the EE), could the retrieval of the number plates have been KW’s next task?
 
sleuth66 said:
KM has a lot to answer to in this saga. The gun club, both the grave and the phone ping at 11pm on the 31st after Albany was on the news and FD/MT went to Litchfield to give DNA samples and then went to the Residence Inn, where they were shortly taken into custody very late on the 31st.
And then the situation involving gas can-crow bar man at STBXs house in the spring.
Lying in his interview and saying he didn't recall FD calling him on the 24th while dumping garbage on Albany- which he seemingly suddenly has now remembered.
Why didn’t he tell LE originally that he overheard FD and MT talking about getting rid of JD on the 23rd? If he said he wanted nothing to do with it?
Why did he run when he heard he was going to be arrested?
None of this suggests innocence at all.

On the other hand, are there any possible scenarios at all which are plausible, in which FD set up KM, and he is more innocent than less? (Still hard to imagine he’s wholly innocent). Despite the above caveats that suggest his guilt?
The first we heard about a KM plea deal was actually quite early, mid February, just after FD was dead and when KM had been in prison only about a month. How soon after his arrest did KM start talking to LE? Why did it take so long for him to have the recorded interview in August, COVID shut things down, but really that long?

I am running my mind through possibilities in which FD set KM up in ways that KM might not have been aware of when they were happening. Reviewing coverage, I did find it striking that FD told KM STBX that KM didn’t know FD was calling her to set up the reconciliation (see below). Hmm. So FD was calling KM STBX of his own initiative and KM didn’t know? And just a few days later FD murdered JD?
Then why didn’t KM say anything way back in June 2019 when he was charged with violating the restraining order, by having FD set them up to meet? Wouldn’t KM have put 2+2 together then? Wouldn’t he defend himself back then, that he didn’t violate the order but FD had set him up?

Clearly FD tried to frame PG his employee, and PG went straight to a lawyer and got himself exonerated and out of the mess lickety split. Why didn’t KM do the same? Instead hemmed and hawed and “didn’t remember” and has all this mess with his STBX and the gun club?

It will be veeerrry interesting to hear what KM shared in his interview. Clearly it’s serious, since JS proclaimed it was “incriminating evidence” for his client, and is only hoping to be able to bring him down under cross examination. So we know it’s bad, if JS admitted to that publicly. It has to be more than just overhearing them talk about it the night of the 23rd. Nearly 2 hours of recording...

Wondering if it’s worth trying to go back and view it through a lens as if KM didn’t actually know what was going on until the 23rd, did FD somehow set him up? Are there any plausabilities there?
NP made it sound like they were possibly going to try to pin the “FD found the bags of trash on his lawn and panicked so he dumped them on Albany” scenario on KM, NP said it was one of the known players in the case who dumped the bags on the lawn. (Which we know isn’t true.) was the plan to pin it on KM all along?
What scenario could FD have had in mind by luring KM STBX to 4 JC? Did KM really not know FD was calling STBX? How did FD find out about the $300 Macy’s charge then for example?
KM clearly has/had a lot of explaining to do.

“Mawhinney’s wife said she first received a call from Fotis Dulos on May 16, asking her to consider reconciling her marriage.
The woman said Fotis Dulos told her Mawhinney still loved her but he didn’t know he was calling her, court documents state.”
....
Fotis Dulos contacted the woman the next day to report that Mawhinney agreed to pay $1,800 for health insurance for her and her children from a previous marriage, the court documents said. The couple does not have children together.
Fotis Dulos called the woman again the following day to tell her Mawhinney was threatening to have her charged with fraud over a $300 Macy’s bill, court documents state.”

Court filing: Fotis Dulos offered house as sex pad to help mend lawyer's marriage
Click to expand...

I don't think FD was setting up KM for the crime. I think THEY were setting up a one, two punch. Both wives. The Greek phone call was designed to place everybody hard at work at 4 JC during the window when Jennifer went missing. But all we really know is that 3 phones were at 4 JC. Possibly just one person -- or do we know they have footage of KM driving in and out???

In any case, I believe that the set up was only to mutually alibi each other for what I believe was a two part plan to eliminate two wives, each with pre-scripted alibis. Who knows what the plan was for the other SBXW. Who knows who the grave was for. Maybe the plan HAD BEEN to use the dinner party to lure KM's wife to 4 JC... and disappear her after but the plan changed, and they moved the plan with Jennifer ahead. Hence the discussions on May 23rd.

That's the entanglement IMO. Two plans. Two disappear two wives. And the set up was to protect each other.

JMO
 
Seattle1 said:
I'm not sure of your reference but seriously -- a phone ping within 2 minutes is hardly the exact moment of departure from any given residence.

This is a topic beyond one post and involves an 8-hour clock, tower distance, and signal strength, (and hours of technical, expert witness testimony). Generally, in a residential environment -- the range is most likely about 12-15 minutes and about 20 miles but there are many exceptions.

For example, I've been known to be sitting at SEATAC airport when my phone is still pinging the location where I boarded the ferry. Cellular signal penetration is a well-known problem in airports caused by numerous factors. IMO, a two-minute variance is negligible.
Click to expand...
My reference is KM's arrest warrant. Based on additional towers polled in the AW, I took it to mean that the phone polled a different tower beyond the time frames specified in the warrant. Keep in mind, LE has referenced the neighbor directly opposite 4JX providing camera footage on 5/24 and I think it's fair to say they likely checked KM's arrival and departure on that camera as well. MOO

Farmington, CT and Seattle are vastly different areas (I've been to both). Farmington and Hartford are also vastly different and have different tower needs. I think LE put those times in for a reason. MOO
131104912_451279346262274_4861389718512467694_n.png

130258812_216089163291551_4148604616160680850_n.png
 
Megnut said:
I don't think FD was setting up KM for the crime. I think THEY were setting up a one, two punch. Both wives. The Greek phone call was designed to place everybody hard at work at 4 JC during the window when Jennifer went missing. But all we really know is that 3 phones were at 4 JC. Possibly just one person -- or do we know they have footage of KM driving in and out???

In any case, I believe that the set up was only to mutually alibi each other for what I believe was a two part plan to eliminate two wives, each with pre-scripted alibis. Who knows what the plan was for the other SBXW. Who knows who the grave was for. Maybe the plan HAD BEEN to use the dinner party to lure KM's wife to 4 JC... and disappear her after but the plan changed, and they moved the plan with Jennifer ahead. Hence the discussions on May 23rd.

That's the entanglement IMO. Two plans. Two disappear two wives. And the set up was to protect each other.

JMO
Click to expand...
I agree that FD wasn't setting KM up for the crime. I never took NP's trash on the lawn to mean KM either, tbh. I always thought that plan was intended to mean EE...or other....but not KM. Keep in mind that KM was still an attorney of record on FD's civil suit at that time.

I also believe they were working in tandem for both wives. I have always wondered why LE did not mention KM's visit on the neighbors camera in the AW, though also believed there was a reason for the omission.

IMO-the grave was meant for KM's STBX and FD was the party charged with luring her to his home. The plan involving KM's STBX seemed planned and calculated to me, especially after gas can guy. I don't believe for a minute that KM didn't know that FD was contacting STBX. Do these guys really not believe that LE can pull phone records regardless of a smashed device, I mean REALLY :rolleyes:! I have thought many times that when the plan with KM's STBX crumbled, FD knew a grave was prepared, and FD and MT quickly changed the plan to Jennifer. While sadly her body has never been found, there were a lot of sloppy moves on FD and MT's parts. For example, had FD thrown the Albany Ave bags in his regular 4JX garbage pick-up, it's likely that a lot less would be known. I also believe that a lot of the plan surrounding Jennifer was between FD/MT. MOO

I think KM couldn't go to LE with what he knew immediately after 5/24 because FD knew too much about KM's plan with his STBX. FD gasses himself and can no longer speak to the plan. FD doesn't seem like the guy who told each person the plans he made with others, imo. For example, I don't think MT was fully aware that FD wasn't the wealthy developer he claimed to be, and wholly dependent on his STBX's money...yet he was. MT had everything to gain with JFd being gone. What did KM gain from JFd disappearing other than FD helping him with his own wife?

MOO
 
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Seattle1 said:
I'm not sure of your reference but seriously -- a phone ping within 2 minutes is hardly the exact moment of departure from any given residence.

This is a topic beyond one post and involves an 8-hour clock, tower distance, and signal strength, (and hours of technical, expert witness testimony). Generally, in a residential environment -- the range is most likely about 12-15 minutes and about 20 miles but there are many exceptions.

For example, I've been known to be sitting at SEATAC airport when my phone is still pinging the location where I boarded the ferry. Cellular signal penetration is a well-known problem in airports caused by numerous factors. IMO, a two-minute variance is negligible.
Click to expand...
Does your phone tell you where it's pinging?
 
Morgan10028 said:
I agree that FD wasn't setting KM up for the crime. I never took NP's trash on the lawn to mean KM either, tbh. I always thought that plan was intended to mean EE...or other....but not KM. Keep in mind that KM was still an attorney of record on FD's civil suit at that time.

I also believe they were working in tandem for both wives. I have always wondered why LE did not mention KM's visit on the neighbors camera in the AW, though also believed there was a reason for the omission.

IMO-the grave was meant for KM's STBX and FD was the party charged with luring her to his home. The plan involving KM's STBX seemed planned and calculated to me, especially after gas can guy. I don't believe for a minute that KM didn't know that FD was contacting STBX. Do these guys really not believe that LE can pull phone records regardless of a smashed device, I mean REALLY :rolleyes:! I have thought many times that when the plan with KM's STBX crumbled, FD knew a grave was prepared, and FD and MT quickly changed the plan to Jennifer. While sadly her body has never been found, there were a lot of sloppy moves on FD and MT's parts. For example, had FD thrown the Albany Ave bags in his regular 4JX garbage pick-up, it's likely that a lot less would be known. I also believe that a lot of the plan surrounding Jennifer was between FD/MT. MOO

I think KM couldn't go to LE with what he knew immediately after 5/24 because FD knew too much about KM's plan with his STBX. FD gasses himself and can no longer speak to the plan. FD doesn't seem like the guy who told each person the plans he made with others, imo. For example, I don't think MT was fully aware that FD wasn't the wealthy developer he claimed to be, and wholly dependent on his STBX's money...yet he was. MT had everything to gain with JFd being gone. What did KM gain from JFd disappearing other than FD helping him with his own wife?

MOO
Click to expand...

What would KM gain? No more expensive divorce, instant windfall.

JMO
 
I would guess that FD and KM did a lot of communicating in person and by phone. No transcript. In their minds, a well laid out plan.

Where would we be if FD had managed to subdue and remove Jennifer without bloodshed?

Where would we be without bus cameras?

So many critical mistakes.

You can be (wickedly) clever but you just can't think of everything.

Did they really think mock alibis would be enough to cover them when BOTH WIVES mysteriously disappeared????

How they must have regaled each other with the expected success of their idiot (and evil) plans.

JMO
 
pernickety said:
This Ashley Banfield interview was posted a few days ago here. Both times I noticed how well-appointed Atty S's office is. Leather chairs and sofa--patterned carpet and green broadloom. Wondered whether this was a recent redo of the decor.
Click to expand...
I noticed his office too! I don't know if I agree that it's well-appointed...looks very dated to me. MOO AS seems to be on his own PR makeover as well, IMO. His attire has certainly changed from Feb 2020. He's gone from the $10 "Not Guilty" neck tie to this new clean office and monochromatic attire. Is that an AS bobble head in the right corner? Total clown MOO

Not Guilty Men's Necktie Legal Lawyer Judge Justice Scales Law Black Neck Tie | eBay
130993513_2788101668090970_4008457891635948304_n.png

image source:

I really disliked his early interviews with the MT sob story, though I have come to appreciate his latest interviews because I think he further incriminates his client. He just gives a little too much information and it appears that he can't help himself or self-edit. On the one hand he's arguing that he needs to move the case because of media attention, yet he goes on a Media blitz as often as possible, which makes his argument moot, imo. MOO
 
Morgan10028 said:
I agree that FD wasn't setting KM up for the crime. I never took NP's trash on the lawn to mean KM either, tbh. I always thought that plan was intended to mean EE...or other....but not KM. Keep in mind that KM was still an attorney of record on FD's civil suit at that time.

I also believe they were working in tandem for both wives. I have always wondered why LE did not mention KM's visit on the neighbors camera in the AW, though also believed there was a reason for the omission.

IMO-the grave was meant for KM's STBX and FD was the party charged with luring her to his home. The plan involving KM's STBX seemed planned and calculated to me, especially after gas can guy. I don't believe for a minute that KM didn't know that FD was contacting STBX. Do these guys really not believe that LE can pull phone records regardless of a smashed device, I mean REALLY :rolleyes:! I have thought many times that when the plan with KM's STBX crumbled, FD knew a grave was prepared, and FD and MT quickly changed the plan to Jennifer. While sadly her body has never been found, there were a lot of sloppy moves on FD and MT's parts. For example, had FD thrown the Albany Ave bags in his regular 4JX garbage pick-up, it's likely that a lot less would be known. I also believe that a lot of the plan surrounding Jennifer was between FD/MT. MOO

I think KM couldn't go to LE with what he knew immediately after 5/24 because FD knew too much about KM's plan with his STBX. FD gasses himself and can no longer speak to the plan. FD doesn't seem like the guy who told each person the plans he made with others, imo. For example, I don't think MT was fully aware that FD wasn't the wealthy developer he claimed to be, and wholly dependent on his STBX's money...yet he was. MT had everything to gain with JFd being gone. What did KM gain from JFd disappearing other than FD helping him with his own wife?

MOO
Click to expand...

Did none of them think how very suspicious it would be if the estranged or ex-wives of two friends in contentious divorces both disappeared and were killed? How wouldn’t that bring a lot of scrutiny? Why didn’t they think and realize this was never going to work? Arrogance on the part of FD for sure. I’m so glad KM’s wife escaped being murdered and I hope she’s doing ok. MOO.
 
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