Identified! CT - Stonington (Ledyard), WhtFem UP8909, 18-30, JNHS 1917 Class Ring, Lady Clairol hair roller set, May'74 - Linda Sue Childers

[ellemo]

As someone else pointed out, the S on the ring is prominent, which makes it unlikely that this is a school ring. I am in agreement with others who think it is a spoil of one of their robberies, especially since the identity she took over was Irene Stahl. I think they saw the ring and thought it matched her new identity.

The ring belongs to someone whose last name begins with an S, MOO. Which could possibly lead to the woman' identity but is just as likely to lead to the identity of someone who was robbed.

Also, when looking through missing person reports, I would look for women reported missing from a few months to several years or more after the murder. This woman left of her own free will and probably did not contact her family often so it could be long time before she was reported missing. Her family may have not have reported her missing at all.

To find her identity, we need to find out more about her boyfriend and see if from their it can be determined how they met/ who she was. Are there any cell mates/ prison buddies alive who remember him talking about a girlfriend? Any women arrested with him at any point? Any domestic violence incidents in his past that have a woman's name listed?

 

[alliemay]

Quote: "To find her identity, we need to find out more about her boyfriend and see if from their it can be determined how they met/ who she was. Are there any cell mates/ prison buddies alive who remember him talking about a girlfriend? Any women arrested with him at any point? Any domestic violence incidents in his past that have a woman's name listed?"

I agree, I think the key is Carmichael's whereabouts and his associates, what bars he may have frequented, for maybe at least a year and a half starting backward from the time of his death. I had thought about visitor's list being checked from when he was in prison. Even the prostitution records from that year, if she wasn't reported missing maybe she dabbled in that kind of work for some of the time before she met Carmichael. I wonder who the main people working on her case are? Since we do not have access to police files this would be something that has to be done by them. I really wish when they left Rainello plea bargain, they would have asked her more questions about this girl. She had stayed at least two days in this woman's home before given the fake identities. They had to be calling her by some name, probably her real one. This girl felt she could trust Rainello enough to confide in her that she was scared. If not a last name, you would think Rainello would know the girls first name. I don't think LE pushed her enough about the issue of the name. There was probably more important information for them to be working on at that time.

 

[alliemay]

http://news.google.com/newspapers?n...YIsAAAAIBAJ&sjid=dc0EAAAAIBAJ&pg=6667,1163342

Putting this here just as an easy reference for myself. Article about the escape. I also found his mother obit but because of TOS don't think I can put it here. It list's Carmichael as "G. Lee Carmichael". I wonder if at any time after his escape if he tried to contact any of this family and would have mentioned his girlfriend's name?

 

[poppygirl]

I found this...Johanna de Haas, missing from the Netherlands in 1960...worked the red light district. Thought to have run away to Germany and then US.

https://www.findthemissing.org/en/cases/12580/20/

Would have been around 33 in 1970. She stood out to me as Carmichael's first name was Gustavous.

According to the case on NAMUS, her case entry was permitted under Delaware as she may be a UID somewhere in US.

ETA: Het Amsterdams Lyceum is a highschool in Amsterdam. It was established in 1917. Looks like in a nice neighboorhood, but 5 mins from red light district. Doesn't fit with JNHS but found it interesting.

 

[alliemay]

I wonder if it says what age our girl was and if she ever changed the color of her hair. I think her hair was reddish blond.

 

[poppygirl]

I wonder if it says what age our girl was and if she ever changed the color of her hair. I think her hair was reddish blond.

She was between 18-30. I don't think anyone knows for sure the hair color, the hair color description came I believe, from someone who had met her.

 

[Skigirl]

Here's the link to the article I mentioned earlier about Hilda Iemma (Former wife of James Gardner) having the UID's clothing until it was seized by detectives:

http://news.google.com/newspapers?n...LusgAAAAIBAJ&sjid=3XEFAAAAIBAJ&pg=3057,165304

 

[alliemay]

Skigirl, thanks for finding the link above.

It seems that Ronald Brant escaped twice. Once with Carmichael and the second time in 1975, the deputy sheriff's mistook him for a lawyer....all I can say is wow, I wonder if he is still alive. He escaped with Carmichael and probably would have known who visited Carmichael in prison.

http://news.google.com/newspapers?n...0AoiAAAAIBAJ&sjid=QnIFAAAAIBAJ&pg=3972,166836

 

[LisaB]

BBM. JNHS could be J_____ N______ High School. I looked at Junior National Honor Society, but that began in 1921. Also...if she was hanging out with or captive with a fugitive, it is possible the ring was just an item stolen during a robbery, etc.

I also looked at the phone numbers on the phone bills from the link provided. Is there anyway to trace those? Just curious.

... but the school wasn't named Jim Ned High School until 1957. Prior to 1957, it was called South Taylor High School, and before 1948, it was Tuscola High School.

jimned.region14.net/webs/jnhome/history.htm



St. John Neumann HS was founded in 1980.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._John_Neumann_High_School_(Naples,_Florida)

I am thinking that a lot of schools (like roadways) have been renamed since 1917 to reflect the names of presidents, or other historical figures who were not relevant when they were originally named. A high school that was J____ N____ High School, or N____ J____ High School (or even N____ Junior High School) could now be called Roosevelt High, Martin Luther King High, or John F. Kennedy High (among others). The key may be finding a yearbook from 1917 bearing the school's former name, or contacting a jeweler who might recognize the ring. THIS IS JUST OPINION. The school may STILL be named what it was in 1917, but that's a pretty long time. It may even have been demolished and replaced, or merged with other schools, adopting the name of the largest one.

 

[LisaB]

Wow. Good Job. Jim Ned HS consolidated in 1957...before it was 31 small schools.

The only other thing I could think was perhaps...It was some strange popular ring design...where certain things were "backwards". If that was the case...NJ...New Jersey High School. Class of 1971? I can imagine a strange fad of mirror like or reverse images. I guess...if we could see the pictures reaslly well on the ring...to see if it is dated. But...the lettering on it looks pretty dated...1917 seems about right.

Also, is it possible that 1917 was the date the facility opened, as opposed to a graduation date?

Could the design actually be a J, an N, and a $ (which can also be drawn with TWO vertical bars)?

 

[LisaB]

I was able to trace three of the phone numbers on the phone bill.

* The 215 945 0131 belonged to a J--- A------ who lived on 7500 Knights Road in Bensalem PA in 1974. That address no longer exists. There is a chance that he obtained that number between 1970 and 1974, but he still had the same number in 1994 (and lived in Levittown at that time).

* The 615 244 4259 belonged to a B---- D----- of Nashville TN in 1994. He was born in 1935, and lived in the area all his life up to that point.

* The 716 834 1513 belonged to a C------ F. R--------- in 1994. He was born in 1921 and lived in the Buffalo/Tonawanda area all his life.

It's possible that they obtained those telephone numbers between 1970 and 1994 (or in the case of JA, between 1970 and 1974), but there would be no reason to do so if they had all lived in the area the entire time.

Looking in Ancestry, I found that BD and CFR both had younger sisters who would have been around 31 and 32 years old (respectively) in 1970. I was thinking that if the Jane Doe was calling a family member, she might be that sister listed. But I'm not sure how I would verify that at this point.

I would hope that LE already looked into that angle.

BBM - A woman who graduated High School in 1917 is quite likely to have given birth to a child in 1921. Just saying...

 

[LisaB]

What they have in NamUs is a skull and mandible with no maxilla. Apparently, the bullet struck her below the nose, and destroyed her upper dentition.

I figure that the "skull only" comment in NamUs means that this is the only part of her that they kept, and they either buried or cremated the rest. It looks like they originally had a complete body, but they now only have a skull and mandible.

Thanks for clarifying. I was going to ask about the fact that the conviction for the murder of a man and woman included the discovery of full skeletons, and this find was JUST a skull and a ring, wrapped in a blanket. That would leave us with an extra skull. But apparently there is a source somewhere clarifying this?

 

[LisaB]

I’ve tried to research this ring, too. It should still be identifiable, whether it is a clue to the identity of this person or not. All I’ve come up with is crumbs to muddy up the water, but hope it helps lead to some more definite clues. The sketch of the letters on the ring was done by “Balfor Jewelers.” I didn’t find a BJ on a quick search, but Balfour Inc is the largest, oldest maker of class and military rings. http://www.balfour.com/about/history/

So Balfour didn’t make high school rings in 1917. Were they the only makers of class rings then? I don’t know. Balfour rings are usually clearly marked with their Balfour insignia on the inside of the shank. At least, all the ones I’ve seen dating back to the 40s or so. So IF this is indeed the same Balfour that studied the initials, I’m inclined to think it is not a class ring. They are the experts. ( Herff Jones is the other major US class ring maker and they were not founded until 1920.)

My HS ring, and my daughter's were by "Josten's"

 

[LisaB]

For the record, Gloria Baird went to the Glynn Academy in Brunswick GA. No tie-in on the ring FWIW.

Since she was not yet born in 1917, unless the date is the date the school/organization was founded, the ring probably would not reflect where our Jane Doe went to school.

 

[LisaB]

In a blog from a "treasure hunter" I found this:
"Last Saturday I found a beautiful sterling silver class ring. It was a 1953 ring from Lacy Junior High School in rural Christian County, Kentucky. The school is now just an elementary school, but in the 1950′s is was a “full service” school for the families of Lacy. Kids started school in the first grade and twelve years later graduated from the same building. How amazing is that? So I had in my possession a boy’s 8th grade “graduation” ring."
S/he returned it to the owner, and it has ZIP to do with this case, except to establish that a Junior High might, in fact, have had an 8th grade graduation ring. Especially if many students in the area did not continue their education beyond 8th grade, this achievement could have been considered important enough to commemorate in 1917.

 

[Houston Mom]

Here are a few tidbits I've found by searching newspaper archives that I don't remember hearing before.

Our UID went by at least two nicknames according to people who knew her before her death: Connie and Sandy in addition to the stolen ID Lorraine Stahl. (from The Day, July 16, 1976, p. 9).

The same article mentions that authorities had a tantalizing clue that she had placed a call to TN or Kentucky a few days before her death. Someone had to have told them that. If they had gotten that information from a phone bill, they wouldn't be wondering which state. Maybe it was someone whose phone she used and several years after the fact this person couldn't remember which state it was?

http://news.google.com/newspapers?n...usgAAAAIBAJ&sjid=3XEFAAAAIBAJ&pg=1823,2619110


Second, James Gardner, accomplice to the murder, gave his wife some of the UID's clothes. Her name was Hilda Iemma and she kept the clothes in Rhode Island until they were seized by detectives in 1974. This information was from an article in The Day, July 1, 1976.

Since regional accents were generally so much more pronounced 40 years ago and since one wouldn't often encounter a West VA/Kentucky/TN accent in Connecticut, I wonder if she really was from one of those states or if she had a regional accent (i.e., CT, Boston, NY, NJ, RI) that sounded much more familiar to people in the Northeast. Otherwise, wouldn't someone have remarked on it? I guess it's possible that she purposely shed an accent if she was hoping to become a performer.

Could "CONNIE" be short for Constantine?

https://www.findthemissing.org/en/cases/4532/16/

 

[Skigirl]

Could "CONNIE" be short for Constantine?

https://www.findthemissing.org/en/cases/4532/16/

Spooky, I was literally looking at this profile in the another window. I wish there was more information about her. I was actually coming back to this page to remind myself whether or not the UID here had blue eyes. Constantine's were blue.

 

[Skigirl]

As someone else pointed out, the S on the ring is prominent, which makes it unlikely that this is a school ring. I am in agreement with others who think it is a spoil of one of their robberies, especially since the identity she took over was Irene Stahl. I think they saw the ring and thought it matched her new identity.

FWIW, she had taken the identity of Lorraine, not Irene, Stahl.

 

[alliemay]

Could "CONNIE" be short for Constantine?

https://www.findthemissing.org/en/cases/4532/16/

Carmichael's mother's obit says, South Boston, Suffolk County, so yeah that's a little spooky.

 

[FiveFelines]

Carmichael's mother's obit says, South Boston, Suffolk County, so yeah that's a little spooky.

Carmichael lived in South Boston, Suffolk County, MA. Cynthia was missing from NY. Here is some more info about her disappearance:

http://letsfindthem.wordpress.com/2...se-disappearance-of-cynthia-dawn-constantine/

Too young (and blonde) to be our UID, IMO.

ETA: I do see a bit of a facial resemblance though.