custody given to nancy's family

[MCDRAW]

This has changed a lot as far as NC laws go. The men in NC better not ever cause any problems for their wives or their families or your children will be sent out of the country.

I agree, it really should make everyone nervous. Someone can make a claim and your children be taken away without any proof. If they had proof he would have already been arrested. IMO

 

[MCDRAW]

Thank God Nancy's girls can remain in Canada where they belong!

I'm not shocked as some of you are regarding the decision. On the contrary, I knew the outcome would be what it is. As I said before, Judge Sasser based her decision on the well being of the girls.

BC didn't have to prove he was a good parent, nor did his parenting skills have to be disproved. The main issue was/is the girls and what home will be more beneficial for their little lives. Judge Sasser did indeed weigh BC's innocence or guilt as this was of major proportion in this case. She obviously feels as I and MANY others feel.......he is guilty as hell.

Mary Winkler admitted to killing her husband and has custody of her children. It should scare you, if you have children someone could say although you are a good parent, your children would be better off with them. And now, based on this decsion could take your children away from you. If his parenting skills had nothing to do with it, it opens the door for all kinds of things. Someone could have more money, better home, better schools, and get our children. It's scary.

 

[ncsu95]

Thank God Nancy's girls can remain in Canada where they belong!

I'm not shocked as some of you are regarding the decision. On the contrary, I knew the outcome would be what it is. As I said before, Judge Sasser based her decision on the well being of the girls.

BC didn't have to prove he was a good parent, nor did his parenting skills have to be disproved. The main issue was/is the girls and what home will be more beneficial for their little lives. Judge Sasser did indeed weigh BC's innocence or guilt as this was of major proportion in this case. She obviously feels as I and MANY others feel.......he is guilty as hell.

Well fortunately, we live in a country where someones guilt isn't determined by peoples feelings. The standard of justice is beyond a reasonable doubt, and there is plenty of reasonable doubt in this case.

 

[tarheellvr]

Well fortunately, we live in a country where someones guilt isn't determined by peoples feelings. The standard of justice is beyond a reasonable doubt, and there is plenty of reasonable doubt in this case.

Proof of guilt is MUCH GREATER than reasonable doubt in this case.

 

[tarheellvr]

Mary Winkler admitted to killing her husband and has custody of her children. It should scare you, if you have children someone could say although you are a good parent, your children would be better off with them. And now, based on this decsion could take your children away from you. If his parenting skills had nothing to do with it, it opens the door for all kinds of things. Someone could have more money, better home, better schools, and get our children. It's scary.

This case is not scary at all. There is vast evidence BC killed those little girl's mother. Under these circumstances he should NEVER have custody.

 

[ncsu95]

Proof of guilt is MUCH GREATER than reasonable doubt in this case.

Huh? If the standard is beyond reasonable doubt, and the current proof is much greater than reasonable doubt....then why hasn't he been arrested? There is significant amount of doubt in this case. But please, list the "proof of guilt" that you see in this case.

You can go here where I list my reasons for doubt:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=72849&page=6

 

[ncsu95]

This case is not scary at all. There is vast evidence BC killed those little girl's mother. Under these circumstances he should NEVER have custody.

Again, please list out this vast evidence.

 

[ncsu95]

Again, please list out this vast evidence.

I'm still waiting for that list tarheellvr. You are pretty quick to say there is vast evidence and enough that it goes well past reasonable doubt...so let's hear it. Don't be shy.

 

[piedmont]

I'm still waiting for that list tarheellvr. You are pretty quick to say there is vast evidence and enough that it goes well past reasonable doubt...so let's hear it. Don't be shy.

While you're waiting, I'd like to say I wonder if the judge really has private info that we don't have. I wonder if CPD saying it's not random is just something they say because it makes people feel better. I wonder if NC's family had anything substantial to get custody originally, other than our hearts go out to them since they lost a daughter. Ofcourse the girls have a nurturing set-up with KL, and that's wonderful, but what about parental rights to their own children?

 

[ncsu95]

While you're waiting, I'd like to say I wonder if the judge really has private info that we don't have. I wonder if CPD saying it's not random is just something they say because it makes people feel better. I wonder if NC's family had anything substantial to get custody originally, other than our hearts go out to them since they lost a daughter. Ofcourse the girls have a nurturing set-up with KL, and that's wonderful, but what about parental rights to their own children?

Regardless of this case, the defendant has a right to hear evidence against them, and then defend against that evidence. If the judge is using evidence that wasn't included as part of the case that the defense is privy to, it seems like that would be unconstitutional.

 

[jilly]

I think the key word on this custody Order is temporary! Like the article says - he hasn't lost his parental rights.
The paramount concern for the Judge here is for the children - Not Brad at this time. No one has been charged with the murder. LE is focusing it's investigation on the father of these children. I think the Judge weighed the circumstances and determined that the children are emotionally and physically safer where they are right now, so for the time being, they should stay where they are.

 

[ncsu95]

I think the key word on this custody Order is temporary! Like the article says - he hasn't lost his parental rights.
The paramount concern for the Judge here is for the children - Not Brad at this time. No one has been charged with the murder. LE is focusing it's investigation on the father of these children. I think the Judge weighed the circumstances and determined that the children are emotionally and physically safer where they are right now, so for the time being, they should stay where they are.

But what happens if he is never charged? It's been 2 years for JY so far. Does there have to be resolution in the criminal system before he can be granted custody again? I doubt LE will ever clear him, but I also doubt they will ever charge him. So what happens? As a father, I'm disgusted with this ruling. I don't think it is fair to remove children when there was no evidence that he has ever harmed the children, abused the children, or neglected the children.

 

[citygirl]

I think the key word on this custody Order is temporary! Like the article says - he hasn't lost his parental rights.
The paramount concern for the Judge here is for the children - Not Brad at this time. No one has been charged with the murder. LE is focusing it's investigation on the father of these children. I think the Judge weighed the circumstances and determined that the children are emotionally and physically safer where they are right now, so for the time being, they should stay where they are.

I hesitate to jump in here as I haven't followed every detail as closely as the veteran posters. That being said, were there not videos provided of the children during there video phone calls with daddy? Videos of the children before, during, and after? One would suspect that may have played a part in the judges decision. And your point that this is all temporary is key.

MOO

 

[piedmont]

Regardless of this case, the defendant has a right to hear evidence against them, and then defend against that evidence. If the judge is using evidence that wasn't included as part of the case that the defense is privy to, it seems like that would be unconstitutional.

That makes sense. I guess the problem was nobody wanted to mess up the criminal investigation or trial.

 

[momto3kids]

I hesitate to jump in here as I haven't followed every detail as closely as the veteran posters. That being said, were there not videos provided of the children during there video phone calls with daddy? Videos of the children before, during, and after? One would suspect that may have played a part in the judges decision. And your point that this is all temporary is key.

MOO

Yes. Sasser was provided tapes by JL. It is NOT all the sessions as he indicated it was to show the court the girl's were not doing well getting prepared, sitting or after the webcam visits. He was asking the court to change some if not all to phone visitation. He felt it would be easier on the girls.

 

[SleuthyGal]

Keep in mind that Brad and lawyers agreed to allow the grandparents to continue temp custody on July 25th for the next few months. He could have fought then but he didn't. Those of you who are disgusted and aghast might also want to ask why a parent would choose to not fight for their kids 9 days after the kids were taken on an emergency basis? In those nearly 3 months it gave the plaintiffs plenty of extra time to make their case.

 

[Anderson]

But what happens if he is never charged? It's been 2 years for JY so far. Does there have to be resolution in the criminal system before he can be granted custody again? I doubt LE will ever clear him, but I also doubt they will ever charge him. So what happens? As a father, I'm disgusted with this ruling. I don't think it is fair to remove children when there was no evidence that he has ever harmed the children, abused the children, or neglected the children.

I would hope that Brad would be cleared, IF he is innocent.

The investigation is ongoing. BC's lawyers could have chosen to put BC on the stand and then we may have known more about the investigation. We do know that Det. Daniels has pointed to inconsistencies in BC's statements. The Judge would be aware of that. Det. Daniels also wrote the probable cause affidavit. We don't know the outcome of the SWs yet. We only know what was taken from the house. Brad's lawyers could have chosen to bring more to light during the custody hearing. If Brad is innocent, then that may have been demonstrated. But, I am no legal expert.

I don't think that we know everything. And I have no idea what the Judge knows, although I had thought that she did would not look at other material related to the investigation. There is, however, a great deal of material for the Judge to look at and take into consideration in the case. Much of it is right here in this forum, I believe.

Time will tell. We will find out more at some point. I guess we all have to have some patience.

 

[Anderson]

I hesitate to jump in here as I haven't followed every detail as closely as the veteran posters. That being said, were there not videos provided of the children during there video phone calls with daddy? Videos of the children before, during, and after? One would suspect that may have played a part in the judges decision. And your point that this is all temporary is key.

MOO

HI CITYGIRL!

VERY good point. I think that may have played an important role in Sasser's decision!

 

[jilly]

But what happens if he is never charged? It's been 2 years for JY so far. Does there have to be resolution in the criminal system before he can be granted custody again? I doubt LE will ever clear him, but I also doubt they will ever charge him. So what happens? As a father, I'm disgusted with this ruling. I don't think it is fair to remove children when there was no evidence that he has ever harmed the children, abused the children, or neglected the children.

We'll have to see what exactly the Judge says in this Order but I would think there is nothing to stop him from applying to rescind this Order in a month or two. Let the dust settle.

I agree with you in that LE will never clear him. I don't know about a charge - I don't know what evidence they have. I do know the labs there are months behind with their testing.

With any other case I don't believe the children would have been removed from Brad. The difference here, is that the mother of the children was murdered and no one has been charged. The Judge has eliminated any risk of those children being harmed by a potential suspect.

 

[jilly]

I hesitate to jump in here as I haven't followed every detail as closely as the veteran posters. That being said, were there not videos provided of the children during there video phone calls with daddy? Videos of the children before, during, and after? One would suspect that may have played a part in the judges decision. And your point that this is all temporary is key.

MOO

Hi Citygirl! Nice to see you again!

I see others have answered but I'll say 'yes' I think it would have played a part. That along with the fact that the Plaintiffs have the children in preschool, gymnastics (I think) and ballet to show that the children are flourishing at the present time. Also, the fact that the Listers' are working closely with a child psychologist.