Dark Minds Episode on the LISK airing 4/23

[giagreen]

If you google "timeout dolls" many websites will come up.

Well see here's the funny thing. My laptop is in the shop. I've got no data left on my phone till my cycle restarts and for some weird freaking reason out of all things I can only go on WS! Lol but I will Google it once my data is back.

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[DizzeeSpellz]

all those pics were on the internet a long time ago. available for anyone. maybe this family member asked not to discuss the dolls because it was already determined that they had nothing to do with the killer and this family member didn't want people to go and put time and effort into this without it leading anywhere.. but since dark minds suddenly brings it up makes me wonder if theres more to it in the end anyways. but no dark minds didnt get those pictures from LE, it was available to anyone, I remember seeing high res pics of all the dolls

 

[TobyTera]

all those pics were on the internet a long time ago. available for anyone. maybe this family member asked not to discuss the dolls because it was already determined that they had nothing to do with the killer and this family member didn't want people to go and put time and effort into this without it leading anywhere.. but since dark minds suddenly brings it up makes me wonder if theres more to it in the end anyways. but no dark minds didnt get those pictures from LE, it was available to anyone, I remember seeing high res pics of all the dolls

I just find it strange that there have been at least 2 different versions of the LISK case covered by 48 hours. Lifetime aired a 1hr special on this case using footage from the long A&E documentary. None of these media outlets talked about the dolls. So what Dark Minds pulled them from the vault? I think Phelps is a clown but other than his long walks and rhetorical questions I don't think he tries to stir real unnecessary drama about possible evidence. The book Lost Girls is very extensive...the author of that didn't mention the dolls in the book. If these pictures were common knowledge just floating around in high res no less why didn't any of these news outlets pick up the fact that dolls were left and discuss them? Even if just to tell people there was no connection....I mean how many times do we bounce Shannan Gilbert back and forth debating if she's connected or not? That's not considered a waste so why not the dolls too. I think but don't remember for sure but at one time think maybe Robert Kolker the author of the book posted on WS. Curious to know his thoughts/knowledge of the dolls.

The only way I think it can be ruled out these dolls have nothing to do with the killer is if LE have the actual person who handmade the dolls and proof that person, not the killer, placed the dolls at the memorial sites.

 

[DizzeeSpellz]

I just find it strange that there have been at least 2 different versions of the LISK case covered by 48 hours. Lifetime aired a 1hr special on this case using footage from the long A&E documentary. None of these media outlets talked about the dolls. So what Dark Minds pulled them from the vault? I think Phelps is a clown but other than his long walks and rhetorical questions I don't think he tries to stir real unnecessary drama about possible evidence. The book Lost Girls is very extensive...the author of that didn't mention the dolls in the book. If these pictures were common knowledge just floating around in high res no less why didn't any of these news outlets pick up the fact that dolls were left and discuss them? Even if just to tell people there was no connection....I mean how many times do we bounce Shannan Gilbert back and forth debating if she's connected or not? That's not considered a waste so why not the dolls too. I think but don't remember for sure but at one time think maybe Robert Kolker the author of the book posted on WS. Curious to know his thoughts/knowledge of the dolls.

The only way I think it can be ruled out these dolls have nothing to do with the killer is if LE have the actual person who handmade the dolls and proof that person, not the killer, placed the dolls at the memorial sites.

who knows who might have put them there, it could be anyone.. the killer? a sick prankster? you really never know.. but i remember that on atleast one of the dolls you could see a name/logo as to where the clothes came from but there's numerous stores of that around. i don't know why dark minds covers this and nobody else did, but there were high res pictures of it going around and it was never a 'rumor' - atleast to me, because i had seen the pics. but I always had the feeling it was thought of having nothing to do with the killer and therefor they wanted this to not be discussed because it would be wasted time and effort, but again, who knows? i remember looking into the dolls back then and a possible 'message'.

 

[mainegirl]

I tried to post pics, but for some reason, I keep messing it up.

The dolls are hand made. They use to be very common at craft fairs.
The only Logo on any of the clothes are Osh Kosh - because they just use kids clothes usually, unless they're a themed version.

I have the pics, but I can't seem to get them to post.
If anyone can offer help, I'll try again.

 

[TobyTera]

I tried to post pics, but for some reason, I keep messing it up.

The dolls are hand made. They use to be very common at craft fairs.
The only Logo on any of the clothes are Osh Kosh - because they just use kids clothes usually, unless they're a themed version.

I have the pics, but I can't seem to get them to post.
If anyone can offer help, I'll try again.

I just went into go advanced reply

Hit the paperclip for attachments at the top of the box

A new window opened and I chose 'choose file' from my computer and then pressed upload. Once it uploaded it would show up in a list so you can repeat and keep adding pics if you have more than one.

Then close that window, hit post on your reply. The pics should be in there.

Hope that helped!

 

[giagreen]

all those pics were on the internet a long time ago. available for anyone. maybe this family member asked not to discuss the dolls because it was already determined that they had nothing to do with the killer and this family member didn't want people to go and put time and effort into this without it leading anywhere.. but since dark minds suddenly brings it up makes me wonder if theres more to it in the end anyways. but no dark minds didnt get those pictures from LE, it was available to anyone, I remember seeing high res pics of all the dolls

I remember her saying that the dolls were very hurtful and was asked not to discuss them. I'm trying right now to find them. Once I do I'll post them. Just tons of crap gotta dig threw first

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[mainegirl]

Ok... lets see how this works

 

[TobyTera]

Just some thoughts and info I came across reading about time out dolls........


These dolls are known as Time out dolls, pouty dolls, corner dolls and cry baby dolls. They are at craft shows and used for home decorations, but they are also often seen at car shows. Assuming LISK is male, a man would know these dolls from car shows more than he would be aware of them through craft shows, unless his mother or grandmother happened to have had or made one. Remember that GC was awake at 5am to attend a car show when Shannan came knocking on his door. Not pointing the finger at GC just stating everything we know so far.

At craft shows or car shows these dolls are not intended for children and are not made to represent feelings of "punishment". Most people place them on cars to look like a cute doll is working on the car restoring it into a classic, at car shows. If you google "time out dolls at car shows" many examples of their true intended nature will pop up.

IF these were placed by the killer I think that there could be an analogy made that if a time out doll is a finishing touch to a car restoration project, then maybe similarly the time out dolls are the finishing touch to LISK's murder project. So often we hear that murder is the serial killer's "work" and it is something that he is "proud of". If that's true, and if he takes part in or admires the work of old cars, its not a far leap to him adding the corner dolls for his "show", which would have been the families' memorial service.

I also think the type of dolls they are might narrow an age on the person who placed them there. In my research time out dolls are usually from the "older timers" at the car shows.

Here's some links where I did some reading on their history, how they are viewed within their subculture, if anyone cared to check them out too........

"mostly old timers do this (include dolls)": http://jalopnik.com/5834801/why-do-car-collectors-put-creepy-dolls-on-their-bumpers/

http://www.pro-touring.com/archive/index.php/t-43196.html

"dolls seen all over rural new hampshire": http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...e-the-only-one-that-finds-these-things-creepy

"Those "time out" dolls are a sure sign of a car show dominated by grandma and grandpa types... it is more and more apparent now because the owners of these cars are baby boomers who are heading into the golden years of retirement.": http://www.crownvic.net/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=968565

Brief description of dolls as decorations: http://thehairpin.com/2011/11/looking-for-something-to-lighten-up-a-dark-corner

Excerpt from LOST GIRLS book referring to GC awake to attend a car show: http://lostgirlsbook.com/excerpt/

 

[TobyTera]

mainegirl, thanks for those pics. Not sure if you are allowed to share this information so feel free to disregard if you can't...but can you share when those dolls were placed there? Were they placed there the night before the families public memorial meet up for the girls? Or just randomly placed there.

 

[DizzeeSpellz]

They appeared on the parkway Feb 29th 2012. The date stamp on the pics is the day they were there.
They were not there long, as far as I know, they disappeared shortly after these were taken.
It rained like crazy before I even got him, so they would probably have been a wet mess.

so you took those pictures after hearing there were dolls there.. where or who from did you hear there were dolls there and do you know who removed them? were they removed by LE? called in?

 

[TobyTera]

I also think it's fair to say that these dolls were made to resemble each girl. Each doll has corresponding color hair to the girls.

I wonder about the message hidden behind Amber's doll with the stuffing coming out of it's mouth. We know the killer taunts the families after tormenting Melissa's sister and trying to access MBB voice mail. Kim Overstreet, Amber's sister had the most outspoken opinion of the LISK during her A&E documentary interviews. She as visibly angry and said she even became obsessive at one point with taking craigslist jobs herself hoping to run into the killer.

I wonder if it's possible that the stuffing coming out of Amber's mouth was to represent that her sister "won't shut up". Something that probably makes the LISK very angry as he clearly seems to hate women especially some of the things that have been alluded to in the phone calls described to Melissa's sister.

 

[TobyTera]

I wonder what the Gilbert family thinks of the episode.

This is another reason I feel LE is responsible for a lot of the content of this episode. They have gone completely with LE on the theory of Shannan's death and also didn't bother mentioning how SCPD botched the entire event the morning she went missing. They failed Shannan Gilbert that morning, no matter how you look at it.

Also, they stopped short of giving an educated thought on the dolls. I'm curious why they didn't somehow get a recording of this person's voice and play it for the sister. Seems like an easy task.

Does anyone here think they have recordings of the calls to the sister ? Why wouldn't they have already played them for this person? That would be even easier than coming up with a recording to play for the sister, if they had it

I personally believe that they have a recording from the calls to Melissa's sister and that is information they won't confirm to the public just in case the killer might feel comfortable enough to itch and make a new call... but that they have no one/no witness to play the calls to yet for voice recognition of a suspect. That's why I think the incognito from last night was actually LE and the content of the episode was to try to spark someone who might know information, but not know they know, into coming forward.

I think the dolls showing up in Feb of 2012 shows that the killer is stalking this case and he was bored of the no leads in information. He was probably disappointed that the dolls didn't receive mass public attention and pretty much stayed a local talked about thing.

 

[mainegirl]

Interesting thoughts Toby.

 

[Clem Snide]

I also think it's fair to say that these dolls were made to resemble each girl. Each doll has corresponding color hair to the girls.

I wonder about the message hidden behind Amber's doll with the stuffing coming out of it's mouth. We know the killer taunts the families after tormenting Melissa's sister and trying to access MBB voice mail. Kim Overstreet, Amber's sister had the most outspoken opinion of the LISK during her A&E documentary interviews. She as visibly angry and said she even became obsessive at one point with taking craigslist jobs herself hoping to run into the killer.

I wonder if it's possible that the stuffing coming out of Amber's mouth was to represent that her sister "won't shut up". Something that probably makes the LISK very angry as he clearly seems to hate women especially some of the things that have been alluded to in the phone calls described to Melissa's sister.

Perhaps he cut her throat? Or there was damage to that part of her throat through ligature? Or, of course, that could just be some odd coincidence.

 

[TobyTera]

They are so freaky...I agree, Maine, very Blair Witch. I'm a hairstylist and the thought that someone went through the effort to get wefts of hair quality enough to make Maureen's doll hair feel real just goes to show the attention to detail the person has for these very personal dolls. Hair like that isn't cheap and can't just be picked up at your local party or craft store like the cheap curly wig hair on some of the other girls dolls. This fact makes me feel like a prankster wouldn't go through all that trouble and whoever made them was personal.

It also makes me angry that LE didn't jump on this and that a few calls had to repeatedly be made. These dolls are handmade and if made by the LISK he took pride in his craft. Creep. But I just don't see how he could avoid littering these fabric dolls with fibers no matter how cautious he tried to be. If irresponsible LE left these out in the rain it just angers me so much for the girls justice.

 

[trigger]

I remember them being quite popular years ago. I've seen MANY of them in homes, and yes, older folks mostly, since they really lost popularity quite a while ago. I hadn't seen any in a long time.
That said, I've never seen them in relation to cars at all. I remember the first time I saw one of these dolls, the woman that had it said that was her "bad boy in time out"
I've always thought they were creepy myself

Yes these dolls are creepy, to me anyway. My neighbor made them and sold them in Suffolk County. When she passed away her daughters had one by her coffin, as if the doll was in mourning.

My Grandson went to many car shows here in Suffolk and has numerous videos. Hope he still has them.

Oh forgot to add. My neighbor displayed these dolls on her front lawn, for sale. Maybe he boight them?

Did LE do touch dna on these dolls???

 

[trigger]

I'm not seeing the pics?

Post 48

 

[mmmaisflying]

it is a disgrace

 

[Tugela]

The fact that Dark Minds had pictures of all 4 dolls tells me they were given those pictures from law enforcement with permission to talk about them. Especially since the dolls until this point were rumors and MBB sister asked they not be discussed. That makes me think law enforcement was trying to keep it as little talked about as possible until now when they chose to plant the info.

I think that the dolls might have appeared innocent enough except for the red flag being the stuffing coming out of the dolls mouth in Amber's in such a crude manner. That to me was a sign that someone placed those dolls there without good intentions.

LE would not do that without saying they did that.

Most likely one of the locals put them there as a memorial, then someone thought it offensive and removed them.