Darlie's injuries

[Jeana (DP)]

God sends special people to us in our lives and if I ever meet them I would shake the hands of all the medical personnell who tried so hard to help the boys. They do a great job on a daily basis for people who need them. Paramedics and ambulance workers are dedicated, and in my book very special people.

AMEN! :woohoo:

 

[SnootyVixen]

You say that but you can't prove it. Bevel at least was able to prove his theory. He showed exactly how the blood from the knife got on her shirt where it did and as it did. I would be happy if you could just show us one other way the blood on her shirt could be duplicated. You can't just wave your hand and say, "O, blood like that can get on the shirt in many ways," to discount evidence as important as the blood evidence on her shirt. You are truly looking for truth as you say, then you should study enough to understand exactly what that blood evidence means and why it is so important.

Goody you have to know I can not show you anything as you can not see me. But a knife in the right position above her could be the source of the cast off without specifying who holds the knife. And again, I am speaking of possibilities here and not absolutes. I just think it seem to me that you all have taken the work of Bevel as absolute without thinking if there could possibly be another means of getting that cast off onto the shirt.

 

[Jeana (DP)]

Goody you have to know I can not show you anything as you can not see me. But a knife in the right position above her could be the source of the cast off without specifying who holds the knife. And again, I am speaking of possibilities here and not absolutes. I just think it seem to me that you all have taken the work of Bevel as absolute without thinking if there could possibly be another means of getting that cast off onto the shirt.

Snooty, think you've got to give the posters here more credit. We've some try their own experiments at home with their own knives and all sorts of substitute "blood." I don't think that its impossible to 100% recreate some blood patterns, especially with so many victims. I'm no expert by any stretch of the imagination, but it seems to me that even the material used in the Routier home, the carpet and floor materials, even the paint on the walls, would all be factors that would be impossible to recreate at a different location.

P.S. We've also had members make the sprint down the alley - the timing was possible!

 

[SnootyVixen]

You say that but you can't prove it. Bevel at least was able to prove his theory. He showed exactly how the blood from the knife got on her shirt where it did and as it did. I would be happy if you could just show us one other way the blood on her shirt could be duplicated. You can't just wave your hand and say, "O, blood like that can get on the shirt in many ways," to discount evidence as important as the blood evidence on her shirt. You are truly looking for truth as you say, then you should study enough to understand exactly what that blood evidence means and why it is so important.

I will be so very happy to do so. I thought I did already but think I got so involved in talking about something I forgot. Here's what you do. Have a butcher knife freshley wet with blood. Stand facing the person who is in the role of Darlie. She must be shorter than you are. Hold the knife in an overhand stabbing position. Raise the knife above your shoulders all the while holding onto the Darlie model by the shirt front as she struggles mightedly to get away. So raise the knife and then bring the knive down in a stabbing motion so that you are going to stab in the area of her heart but she twists and turns and you end up stabbing at the right shoulder but you instead get the knife caught up in the stretched out shirt in your hands. You don't end up stabbing her but you will get cast off on the back and the front of her shirt and yourself. Try it. Go kill a chicken and use the fresh warm blood for the test and you will see. I promise you.

 

[Jeana (DP)]

I will be so very happy to do so. I thought I did already but think I got so involved in talking about something I forgot. Here's what you do. Have a butcher knife freshley wet with blood. Stand facing the person who is in the role of Darlie. She must be shorter than you are. Hold the knife in an overhand stabbing position. Raise the knife above your shoulders all the while holding onto the Darlie model by the shirt front as she struggles mightedly to get away. So raise the knife and then bring the knive down in a stabbing motion so that you are going to stab in the area of her heart but she twists and turns and you end up stabbing at the right shoulder but you instead get the knife caught up in the stretched out shirt in your hands. You don't end up stabbing her but you will get cast off on the back and the front of her shirt and yourself. Try it. Go kill a chicken and use the fresh warm blood for the test and you will see. I promise you.

I'm confused. Why are we attacking Darlie when the drops on the back of her shirt from her stabbing the boys? :waitasec: :waitasec:

 

[beesy]

Err, could it be because of your Arnie Schwartzenneger line in your last post (which you have now deleted)? ............. "but I will be back. I am not finished with this post" :doh:

Hey, we all get confused when Jane talks of huts, snakes, survival, cowboys, indians, bears, blood, swirling, bruises blah blah blah .........!! :banghead:

Yeah, I deleted that line because I'd returned and finished the post. It didn't need to be there anymore. I wrote that in the first place hoping nobody would reply to it until I could finish it.

 

[deanws]

If we learn anything from this case we should all agree that the police, labs, investigators etc should be given a lot more access to funds, to prove or disprove their investigations and to make sure a killer like this, or their accomplices, never walk free amoung us. The crime victims deserve it, the families derserve it and the police deserve that kind of support.

Exactly! Good post.:clap: Not just for this case, but for all the cases that pervs hurt children:behindbar . I feel hurting any child should be a sentence that is life.

 

[G.I.RattlesnakeJane]

Exactly! Good post.:clap: Not just for this case, but for all the cases that pervs hurt children:behindbar . I feel hurting any child should be a sentence that is life.

I think as soon as the Rowlett police knew they had a dead child on their hands, automatic funding no holes barred every resource they wanted should have been provided. No one could argue with that. It could have provided more nails for the prosecution as well as eliminating suspects at a crime scene.

 

[G.I.RattlesnakeJane]

Yeah, I deleted that line because I'd returned and finished the post. It didn't need to be there anymore. I wrote that in the first place hoping nobody would reply to it until I could finish it.

When I 1st got here y'all were discussing bell bottoms and hip huggers!!!!!!!!!!!!!

What is wrong with the snakes and bears you have something against critters.
I thought you'd like the thought of Bears eating child killers sorry!!!!!!!!!!!!

Cowboys and Indians is the last game I played with the boys. I worked for a chemical co that sold its product wholesale at sams. I did product demonstrations. On Halloween I dressed up as the "Sheriff of Stainville" The two little "Indians" raided my candy bowl. They stuffed their pockets when they thought I wasn't looking. I recognized them as they looked so much like Darlie and especially when she was young. I apprehended my "suspects" and was heading to the "jail" with my hands on their backs. ( where Darlie was standing ) when I commented to them that their grandma Darlie wouldn't want them acting like that either. They both looked up at me and started to empty their pockets. Darlie saw us and didn't recognize me. I told her what they had done and she was MORTIFIED. She gave them that you are grounded for LIFE look her own mother used on her. I reminded her who I was and she laughed about not recognizing me. She talked to the boys but we both agreed that even though they returned the candy they had stolen. Darlie suggested no Halloween candy for the rest of the day even if they went trick or treating at Sarildas house. But I suggested a better punishment would be if they had to work their debt off.
She agreed so the boys helped me clean little kids tennis shoes with this non toxic enviromentally friendly 100% biodegradable cleaner, for about an hour.
I'm dressed to the hilt in chaps, hat, rattlesnake hide with the rattle still on it tied aroung the brim of my hat. Spurs, I had a Pikes Peak Sheriffs badge and 2 Toy 6 shooters with the TV show OVERLAND TRAIL on them. If you saw this show as a kid you are as old as I am, or older, so no more posting about our decrepid states of age.

They loved it, I gave Damon my hat, Devon my vest with the badge on it and a gun after all my hat had a REAL RATTLESNAKE HIDE on it. It was COOL to them.
They charmed the customers and acted like perfect little gentlemen.
Darlie had picked up the supplies she needed and the boys gave me a hug. I told them you didn't know when you took that candy that I would have given you the whole bowl had you asked. They shook their heads no and I told them they did a good job and their 'debt' was paid in full. I gave them 1 candy each and winked at them.

So please don't make fun of the cowpokes and indians it is the last time I saw the boys and the best way in my own mind to remember them. Young boys who were learning about life, family, friends and what it takes to be a good man in this world. They were all boy boys. I feel lucky, no blessed, I got to play with them even if it was for the last time. I am glad I saw them steal-- I know I imparted the right values upon them and they gladly accepted them.

 

[G.I.RattlesnakeJane]

I'm confused. Why are we attacking Darlie when the drops on the back of her shirt from her stabbing the boys? :waitasec: :waitasec:

Maybe the knife was bloody from stabbing the boys, Are there holes in Darlie shirt too?
Beesy, goody, confirm ??????
Hmmmm..... I may post something about this later. Since they still have the knife and the shirt in evidence ??????????
Seems to me.....

 

[beesy]

Re: post 232
So what does that tell us? Darlie's blood was on Devon's pillowcase. That proves she was near him, right? That only adds more evidence to Dani's theory that Darlie was injured during the attack on Devon. And if you think she didn't go back over to him to make sure he was dead, you're fooling yourself. Wouldn't you? How does Darlie's blood on his pillow make her innocent?

 

[SnootyVixen]

I'm confused. Why are we attacking Darlie when the drops on the back of her shirt from her stabbing the boys? :waitasec: :waitasec:

Because I am putting forth an intruder theory in which the knife has just been used to kill the boys and now is being used on Darlie. In an attemp to show that there are other ways that the cast off could end up on her shirt in the places that it did. It is my suspicion that it also ended up on her shirt in areas not tested.

 

[SnootyVixen]

Re: post 232
So what does that tell us? Darlie's blood was on Devon's pillowcase. That proves she was near him, right? That only adds more evidence to Dani's theory that Darlie was injured during the attack on Devon. And if you think she didn't go back over to him to make sure he was dead, you're fooling yourself. Wouldn't you? How does Darlie's blood on his pillow make her innocent?

Well, of course, if you subscribe to the theory that she was injured while killing Devon then what can I say? I find the though not very credible. Under any circumstances I would find it very hard for a right handed person to stab themselves hard on the far side of the right forearm. Just plain very hard to do and even more extrordinary to do it by accident. I don't think Devon was killed by Darlie. I think that someone very strong killed Devon and did it quickly as I think Devon was fighting as much as a little boy could. The evidence of that is in the marks on the palms of his hands and the side of his neck where it seems to me his necklace had to be jerked very hard to leave the bruising in the shape of beads alongside the neck. Just things like that indicate to me that he did not die peacefully in his sleep.

Edited to add__ I don't think I ever said that her blood on his pillow made her innocent. I said that it was proof that she did go near the boy which she had been accused of not doing in a post I was responding to.

 

[beesy]

Maybe the knife was bloody from stabbing the boys, Are there holes in Darlie shirt too?
Beesy, goody, confirm ??????
Hmmmm..... I may post something about this later. Since they still have the knife and the shirt in evidence ??????????
Seems to me.....

ok, many many many problems with Snooty's theory. One, cast-off doesn't go in that direction. The little tails would be the other way if they had been sprayed from a knife attacking.
Snooty knows Darlie had cuts in her t-shirt. That is why she described the scene as she did. You can ask Snooty to confirm. She knows it.
And perhaps the most important of all: THAT IS NOT DARLIE'S STORY!
Girls, you cannot modify Darlie's story to fit the evidence. If you asked her face-to-face, she would tell you that didn't happen. Now why on earth would she let that go by? Darlie knows the evidence now. Why hasn't it dawned on her that this happened? She did hypnosis, the perfect time to say "oh yeah, the big guy tried to stab me while I followed the midget out."
Snooty's theory is Darlie was standing and trying to free herself and the blood sprayed on her back. Darlie never says she was attacked while standing. And the spray is going the wrong way.

 

[SnootyVixen]

Maybe the knife was bloody from stabbing the boys, Are there holes in Darlie shirt too?
Beesy, goody, confirm ??????
Hmmmm..... I may post something about this later. Since they still have the knife and the shirt in evidence ??????????
Seems to me.....

I am not Beesy or Goody but I assure you that I have been studying this case far longer than either of them and there are indeed holes in Darlie's shirt.

 

[beesy]

Well, of course, if you subscribe to the theory that she was injured while killing Devon then what can I say? I find the though not very credible. Under any circumstances I would find it very hard for a right handed person to stab themselves hard on the far side of the right forearm. Just plain very hard to do and even more extrordinary to do it by accident. I don't think Devon was killed by Darlie. I think that someone very strong killed Devon and did it quickly as I think Devon was fighting as much as a little boy could. The evidence of that is in the marks on the palms of his hands and the side of his neck where it seems to me his necklace had to be jerked very hard to leave the bruising in the shape of beads alongside the neck. Just things like that indicate to me that he did not die peacefully in his sleep

Ok, she didn't get cut. She went over to him to make sure he was dead after she had cut herself. I know that child did not die peacefully. The nick on his butt shows that. Darlie was stronger than Devon and she did attack him in his sleep. But, she could have been worried he'd bruised her. If she and Darin had "found" the boys dead the next am and Darlie ended up with bruises all over her, she would have been a suspect, so what to do...ok, I'll be a victim too.

Edited to add__ I don't think I ever said that her blood on his pillow made her innocent. I said that it was proof that she did go near the boy which she had been accused of not doing in a post I was responding to

No, but since you think she is, when you bring up something about her blood near Devon, you are obviously trying to show she innocently went over to him instead of how I'm saying it, which is she was there killing him or checking him.

 

[beesy]

I will be so very happy to do so. I thought I did already but think I got so involved in talking about something I forgot. Here's what you do. Have a butcher knife freshley wet with blood. Stand facing the person who is in the role of Darlie. She must be shorter than you are. Hold the knife in an overhand stabbing position. Raise the knife above your shoulders all the while holding onto the Darlie model by the shirt front as she struggles mightedly to get away. So raise the knife and then bring the knive down in a stabbing motion so that you are going to stab in the area of her heart but she twists and turns and you end up stabbing at the right shoulder but you instead get the knife caught up in the stretched out shirt in your hands. You don't end up stabbing her but you will get cast off on the back and the front of her shirt and yourself. Try it. Go kill a chicken and use the fresh warm blood for the test and you will see. I promise you.

My daughter wants a pet chicken but when we get it, I don't think I'll kill it for the sake of an experiment. I am not being smart when I say this, but you do it Snooty and take pictures and post them.

 

[SnootyVixen]

ok, many many many problems with Snooty's theory. One, cast-off doesn't go in that direction. The little tails would be the other way if they had been sprayed from a knife attacking.
Snooty knows Darlie had cuts in her t-shirt. That is why she described the scene as she did. You can ask Snooty to confirm. She knows it.

Of course I know she had cuts on her shirt.

And perhaps the most important of all: THAT IS NOT DARLIE'S STORY!

Darlie's story. You all put too much emphasis on that. for one thing she does not know what happened that night for the large part. there was an obvious degree of violence in my opinion that involved Darlie because of the blood all over the place. The knocked over glass from the coffee table with Darlie's blood splashed on it etc. I do not see how you can look at these things and say there was nothing disturbed. Because there was things disturbed. And because a victim does not remember an attack has little to do with whether or not an attack took place. What she may remember now we have no way of knowing.But just in my humble opinion only, you make your beliefs small when you constantly harp on what a traumatized and injured woman with two dead little boys said.


Girls, you cannot modify Darlie's story to fit the evidence.

No, you look at the evidence and try to come up with a likely scenario that will fit the evidence. Forget for a time what Darlie said. We all know she does not remember what happened so forget about what she said and LOOK AT THE EVIDENCE.

If you asked her face-to-face, she would tell you that didn't happen

You know this how?

Now why on earth would she let that go by? Darlie knows the evidence now. Why hasn't it dawned on her that this happened? She did hypnosis, the perfect time to say "oh yeah, the big guy tried to stab me while I followed the midget out."

Everything is not recovered with hypnosis especially with only one session. And I repeat none of us know what she may have remembered by now.And if there were a group that she was likely to tell do you think it would be this one where they hate her?/B]

Snooty's theory is Darlie was standing and trying to free herself and the blood sprayed on her back. Darlie never says she was attacked while standing. And the spray is going the wrong way.

No the spray is not going the wrong way. I said the knife was upraised in the hand of the knifeholder and then brought down to try to stab her. Cast off could happen while the knife was being upraised and if her were standing close to Darlie then the back of her shirt could very easily get a tiny drop of cast off with the front getting a lot and the intruder also getting a lot of cast off.
Darlie saying she was not attacked standing means nothing. I don't think she ever said she WAS NOT attacked standing up, rather she just never said anything about being attacked standing up. I don't think she remembers it because I think it was a part of when she saw her children stabbed to death and she has buried that memory deep. And if you all don't believe in buried memory then you don't but I do.

 

[beesy]

I am not Beesy or Goody but I assure you that I have been studying this case far longer than either of them and there are indeed holes in Darlie's shirt.

which I clearly stated in post #239

 

[SnootyVixen]

My daughter wants a pet chicken but when we get it, I don't think I'll kill it for the sake of an experiment. I am not being smart when I say this, but you do it Snooty and take pictures and post them.

No that is not good. No body wants to look at pictures or believe them. If anyoen is truly interested then they will do their own experiment or just think it out. Imagine it. Albert Einstein pointed to his head and said it was his laboratory. That's where he figured out thiings and what would work and not work. You can imagine this and figure it out. But if you do not then have the person who kills the chickens for the table let you be there to get the frest warm blood. You do not have to see the actual killing. I do not do that. But I think that fresh blood is the best for this kind of thing.
It does not have to be a chicken. A pidgeon would do.