***Day 3 -Committal Hearing*** 11th,12,13th March 2013

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I couldn't say for certain, but I'm fairly sure they were, although twice I saw one of the ladies wave at GBC as he was coming into the dock. There was no obvious response from him that I could see. If he saw her he didn't let on. This is the same lady who asked the others to move.

The Dickie family and relatives have asked that the front row be kept reserved for them. The court people have agreed to do this for them. None of the BCs family are there apart from OW and she is now not allowed in court, hence why she scuttles off as soon as the Magistrate arrives - she is a witness and should not be allowed to communicate with GBC at all during court proceedings.

The lady that yelled at him was incensed by the fact that OW could talk to him through the glass so she made a point of standing there too - sort of if OW can do it then anyone can, so she stood there and left those delightfull parting words to GBC.

The lady waving at GBC is from the Dickie family and trying to make GBC aware that the family is there. When she waved he did see her and asked his lawyers if the family could be moved out. The answer from the court baliffs was along the lines of they can do whatever they want and sit where they like.

cheers.
 
The Dickie family and relatives have asked that the front row be kept reserved for them. The court people have agreed to do this for them. None of the BCs family are there apart from OW and she is now not allowed in court, hence why she scuttles off as soon as the Magistrate arrives - she is a witness and should not be allowed to communicate with GBC at all during court proceedings.

The lady that yelled at him was incensed by the fact that OW could talk to him through the glass so she made a point of standing there too - sort of if OW can do it then anyone can, so she stood there and left those delightfull parting words to GBC.

The lady waving at GBC is from the Dickie family and trying to make GBC aware that the family is there. When she waved he did see her and asked his lawyers if the family could be moved out. The answer from the court baliffs was along the lines of they can do whatever they want and sit where they like.

cheers.
What a hide!!!! He actually thinks he can have Allison's family moved out of the court because they don't like him? Poor him, were they making him feel a little uncomfy?
Ah, so maybe the lady saying "I don't love you, I hate you."may have been responding to Olivia's parting words of something like "I love you, keep strong."
Starting to make sense. Thankyou for telling us that.
 
what a hide!!!! He actually thinks he can have allison's family moved out of the court because they don't like him? Poor him, were they making him feel a little uncomfy?
Ah, so maybe the lady saying "i don't love you, i hate you."may have been responding to olivia's parting words of something like "i love you, keep strong."
starting to make sense. Thankyou for telling us that.

exactly !!!!
 
Ok folks I'll be closing this thread shortly. I've made a new General Discussion thread if you'd all like to move on up to the following link please....



[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=201886"]Allison Baden-Clay - GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD #43 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]
 
I think it was giveaway when GBC reported her missing so soon after the time he expected her home. And as we all know they had an argument the night before... if I was in that situation I would probably be thinking "Gee, she's still pretty pissed off with me." and maybe think she's sitting somewhere on a bench pondering her future with me.
The only time I think someone would worry to that extent is if there had been threats prior or there was a stalker around and there was some reason to believe that something might happen. BUT then, why would she go for a walk on her own if that was the case?

I'm sure the police have wondered all of this. After an argument like they're supposed to had over TM the night before why would he expect her to get up and go for a nice leisurely stroll like nothing has happened and be back on time?

Yeah he made lots of mistakes. He would have been better off claiming a massive argument at the time the murder occurred and that she stormed out in a fury. He could have attributed the scratches to Allison. There's that problem solved, as well as what neighbours heard. Said he was so disgusted with her that he didn't care she wasn't home that morning. And started his "search" in the evening with phone calls and eventually the police. He would still have the problem of the blood in the car - or maybe not, he might have been able to take more care at the time without an early morning deadline - or cleaned up better in the interim.

But no, he has to be rash and get the show on the road and keep up the facade as a loving, if flawed, husband. Might have to make dinner as well as the lunches if he leaves it too long.
 
Yeah he made lots of mistakes. He would have been better off claiming a massive argument at the time the murder occurred and that she stormed out in a fury. He could have attributed the scratches to Allison. There's that problem solved, as well as what neighbours heard. Said he was so disgusted with her that he didn't care she wasn't home that morning. And started his "search" in the evening with phone calls and eventually the police. He would still have the problem of the blood in the car - or maybe not, he might have been able to take more care at the time without an early morning deadline - or cleaned up better in the interim.

But no, he has to be rash and get the show on the road and keep up the facade as a loving, if flawed, husband. Might have to make dinner as well as the lunches if he leaves it too long.

I was thinking the identical thing last night. I wondered why he didn't just admit to a fight and Allison storming out. It made so much more sense and I truly wonder how well the committal would be going for the Prosecution right now without so many lies.. The webs we weave!

Comes back to the old KISS principle and lets face it his story was only _ _ _ S
 
I was thinking the identical thing last night. I wondered why he didn't just admit to a fight and Allison storming out. It made so much more sense and I truly wonder how well the committal would be going for the Prosecution right now without so many lies.. The webs we weave!

Comes back to the old KISS principle and lets face it his story was only _ _ _ S

I think he was so used to spinning out this crap to business partners, Allison, his family that he didn't give it the consideration he should have ... unlike those people, the police had ZERO invested emotionally in his lies being true - of course Allison wanted to believe him, the business partners wanted to believe they were not in deep **** in business with him, and his family wants to believe they haven't raised a useless sack of poo.
 
Having read a fair bit of the evidence, there were enough elements of doubt about the cause of the man's death in this case, to warrant this jury verdict. The jury found on the evidence presented, regardless of the accused Counsel's assertions in representation. MOO

At the risk of straying way off topic, and regarding the Patel verdict - that was the ONLY verdict they could/should have brought down. I'm not commenting on whatever other charges he may or may not face, but I would respectfully disagree with the idea that they didn't understand the evidence. In fact I think the exact opposite - they were a good enough jury to demonstrate that the effects of social media and the media generally can be overcome by those who are able to weigh just the evidence.

As probably the only one on here qualified to comment professionally, let me try to summarize the problem. The prosecution alleged that Patel shouldn't have operated on Mr Morris because he was sick and had heart disease etc. That description applies to most of my patients! But of course, they omitted the obvious fact that if he DIDN'T operate, then Mr Morris was going to die anyway from his bleeding.

It is standard training and procedure, when faced with somebody bleeding heavily rectally, and with the cause unable to be determined (they don't have facilities in Bundaberg for selective angiography, for example, and the patient was far too sick to transfer, not to mention the delay), then you do exactly what Patel did - a laparotomy and if the sigmoid colon is full of blood (which it was) then you remove it. And 9 times out of 10 you will be right. And the bleeding did in fact cease.

Now I know that Patel's mortality rate was within acceptable limits, and that the whole "Dr Death" thing is pure media hype. And he almost certainly had problems with judgment and insight - eg doing oesophagectomies in Bundaberg where the infrastructure just isn't there to look after them post-op. And his infection rate was a bit higher than average. But given the number of patients that he operated on, many of whom were very sick to start with, his record is nowhere near as bad as the media portrays. Or the "Patient Support Group". And THAT is where the problem lies - he has been made a scapegoat, and most of the opinion is driven by the very emotive desire for vengeance, rather than accepting the facts.

As I said, I'm not commenting on the various other allegations - eg should he have been registered here. Different matter. But, based ONLY on the evidence in this case (and others, one of which in particular I'm very familiar with) he did NOT do anything wrong, let alone criminally wrong.

One other point to consider (and I'm NOT protecting a colleague, by the way - if he did wrong, then he should be found to have done so): But, if he HAD been found guilty, then that would have ENORMOUS repercussions and implications for every surgeon in the future, when faced with a similar situation. Let's just say, for example, that I were to be faced with a patient in emergency (as I have been on countless occasions) with a presumptive diagnosis of a leaking aortic aneurysm.

Now, if I operate, there is a 50-60% chance of survival. If I don't, the chance of survival is 0%. So what do I do? There is no time to faff about getting scans, or whatever. The patient with a hole in his aorta needs an operation, pronto. But now I have a problem - the patient has a 30-40% chance of dying even if I DO operate, and therefore I run the risk of being charged with manslaughter, despite trying to save him. So what do I do? The precedent would have been set by the Patel case.....

The Crown stuffed it up big time. They brought the wrong case (not that any of the others would have been any different), and they didn't present it well enough to get a conviction (the correct decision IMHO). Several expert witnesses (colo-rectal specialists etc) testified that what Patel did was exactly the right thing to do in the circumstances, and they would have done the same. So would I - and have in the past. The patient had a problem which was going to be fatal if he did NOT get operated upon. Patel tried. And the patient died of complications - it happens. It goes with the territory.

There has been WAY too much demonising by media and interest groups to enable most people see the facts from the hype, so I'm delighted that the jury, who were well-directed by the judge, were able to decide based purely on the evidence presented in court, and not be swayed by the hoopla!

OK - way off topic, I know, but I know that several people in here are interested. And as far as comments about the jury not understanding the evidence - all I would say is that those people who think Patel should have been convicted simply don't understand the evidence, or the situation.

Sorry for the long post - I hope it is allowed to stand, as it is off-topic. But WS doesn't have another thread where these points can be made.
 
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