Deaths of Male College Students-General Discussion #6

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Has anyone discussed the fact that several of the early "official" victims (according to the timeline on this forum, the ones in La Crosse) went missing/were last seen within a few block radius? Not sure if this is old news, but might be something to look into with relation to all the potentially involved cases, to see if there's a pattern there.
 
I don't see a national conspiracy either, but I think one (or perhaps two) people are responsible for most of these deaths. I don't think a gang could have stayed under the radar for so long.

I followed Brian Welzian's missing person case in 2000. When he was found in Lake Michigan, I didn't have any reason to doubt the accidental death theory. But within a year or two, there were several similar cases in the Midwest and I began to suspect a connection between the cases. Later I found out there were several cases before Brian's death.

I don't necessarily buy the smiley face connection as smiley face graffitti is found in many places.

Besides the similarities of the circumstances of the disappearances, the bodies being found in water, and many of the bodies in better shape than they should be if the victims had fallen in the water the night they disappeared, there are two reasons I believe at least some of these cases are connected.

1. The fact that young men apparently weren't falling in the water and drowning in such high numbers before 1997. From about 1970, I was in college for 4 years, at a college for 3 years while my husband was in grad school, and then for years at several universities where my husband was a professor. Many of those years were in the Midwest (Michigan and Illinois). I don't recall any such deaths back then.

2. The geographic concentration of these deaths. Are Midwestern college boys dumber than college boys in California or Florida or non-Midwest college towns situated on a river, lake, or coast? I don't believe so. What can explain the cluster of these deaths in the Midwest?
 
I used to say the same thing about Pittsburgh. We have three rivers and a vibrant bar scene near two of them but we didn't have these strange deaths. Except in the area near the stadiums, it's not all that easy to even get to the rivers. But then 3 young men turn up missing, found in the rivers. Two of these cases are very hard to believe as accidental drownings. The third case (Jimmy Slack) I am not as certain. He was drunk and not making much sense in his last contact with friends, talking about walking home, which would require a very long trip through a tunnel or over Mt. Washington. But I still don't see him falling in the river on his own.
 
Kip said:
I don't see a national conspiracy either, but I think one (or perhaps two) people are responsible for most of these deaths. I don't think a gang could have stayed under the radar for so long.

I followed Brian Welzian's missing person case in 2000. When he was found in Lake Michigan, I didn't have any reason to doubt the accidental death theory. But within a year or two, there were several similar cases in the Midwest and I began to suspect a connection between the cases. Later I found out there were several cases before Brian's death.

I don't necessarily buy the smiley face connection as smiley face graffitti is found in many places.

Besides the similarities of the circumstances of the disappearances, the bodies being found in water, and many of the bodies in better shape than they should be if the victims had fallen in the water the night they disappeared, there are two reasons I believe at least some of these cases are connected.

1. The fact that young men apparently weren't falling in the water and drowning in such high numbers before 1997. From about 1970, I was in college for 4 years, at a college for 3 years while my husband was in grad school, and then for years at several universities where my husband was a professor. Many of those years were in the Midwest (Michigan and Illinois). I don't recall any such deaths back then.

2. The geographic concentration of these deaths. Are Midwestern college boys dumber than college boys in California or Florida or non-Midwest college towns situated on a river, lake, or coast? I don't believe so. What can explain the cluster of these deaths in the Midwest?
Click to expand...

Excellent point regarding prior to 1997, these disappearances and deaths were uncommon.
 
The Oxygen series covered the Will Hurley case last night. That's one case where every single aspect of the situation points to foul play: the fact that he knew his girlfriend was almost there to pick him up, the evident impairment visible on the video of Will leaving the hockey game, the GHB in his system, the condition of the cell phone and the fact it wasn't in the water or with his body, the blunt force trauma injury to the face and head, and where the body was found--upstream of where he would have "fallen in" the water. I can also point out that I (as a non-professional outside observer on WS) checked every day for weeks for the toxicology results and saw nothing in the media. So either the medical examiner's office, law enforcement or the media thought that is was OK to leave the impression that Will was a drunk who fell in the river. Someone dropped the ball.
 
pittsburghgirl said:
The Oxygen series covered the Will Hurley case last night. That's one case where every single aspect of the situation points to foul play: the fact that he knew his girlfriend was almost there to pick him up, the evident impairment visible on the video of Will leaving the hockey game, the GHB in his system, the condition of the cell phone and the fact it wasn't in the water or with his body, the blunt force trauma injury to the face and head, and where the body was found--upstream of where he would have "fallen in" the water. I can also point out that I (as a non-professional outside observer on WS) checked every day for weeks for the toxicology results and saw nothing in the media. So either the medical examiner's office, law enforcement or the media thought that is was OK to leave the impression that Will was a drunk who fell in the river. Someone dropped the ball.
Click to expand...

I completely agree with "dropping the ball!" Sadly, that ME and PD are not the only ones to drop the ball, IMO. Case after case has been hurriedly swept under the rug as an accident and even though declared "accidental" and closed, information about a death that's often made public wasn't. What is going on? After so many cases have ended the same way, I can't help but wonder what is the pressure to drop the ball, and where is it coming from? MOO.
 
pittsburghgirl said:
It's strange that the Oxygen series isn't generating more interest here. It's not like we have to accept the "smiley face" aspect in order to know that LE isn't treating these deaths seriously.
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Exactly! I watched the first two episodes online and I thought the investigators uncovered a lot of good information that would, IMO, persuade people that at least some of these cases are not drunken accidents. For example, the ligature marks and nail bed bruising on Dakota's body, and the lack of decomposition of Luke's body, along with the flecks of spray nail polish on his clothing. I had wanted to watch episode three, on William Hurley, but it wasn't online for free when I checked, and I don't have a TV service. Do you happen to know if it will be available online, like the first two, at a later date? I'm a bit familiar with his case and the other Boston-area cases through the posts of Elise Soper /Elias Jaeger on the Word Press "Cryptid Antiquarian" blog. The two posts generated well over a thousand comments with all kinds of ideas and theories, from the mundane to the bizarre. One of Elias's recent comments was speculation about "something" being taken from the victims. Others have speculated about DNA, semen, etc. David Paulides recently tweeted that he was doing research on the human soul, and posted a photo of a book he's reading. I'm inferring that he might be considering that something / someone believes they are able to take the souls of the missing and / or "drowned" victims. Now, that's not something that had ever crossed my mind over the years that I've followed the cases. MOO.
 
I don't know if Episode 3 will be online. But I think the evidence is very clear in his case; all I was waiting for, when his body was first found, was the toxicology report to see the alcohol level (not drunk) and if other drugs were present. GHB is a game changer. No one gives themselves GHB. He was clearly impaired. I think LE has a bias here, in favor of "accidental death." It strikes me as blaming the victim, in a way. They get drunk, fall in the river, too bad.
 
Did the Oxygen episode reveal Hurly's toxicology screen results? Actually, people do take GHB as a "club drug" or for "raves," but I don't believe Hurly knowingly took it, if it was found in his tox screen. According to the articles linked below, it relaxes people and promotes sexual arousal. He was engaged to a woman and was attending a sporting event with a male friend (not a rave) when he became unwell / tired and left. Therefore, I think it is unlikely he would have taken it in a sports stadium in the company of another man. I haven't been able to grasp the connection between GHB and the decomposition process. Doesn't it sometimes occur naturally in the process of decomposition? MOO.

Alright, let’s talk about GHB: A user’s guide.

GHB Drug: Effects, Hazards & Methods of Abuse - Drugs.com
 
pittsburghgirl said:
Yes, he had elevated GHB but not at super high levels. He was visibly impaired, though. And he hadn't stayed for the whole hockey game and wasn't drunk.
Click to expand...
Endogenous Concentrations of GHB in Postmortem Blood from Deaths Unrelated to GHB Use
This article is an example of what I meant by not being "able to grasp the connection" between ingested GHB and post-mortem GHB. Basically, I'm confused about whether there is a scientifically proven reliable method of determining whether GHB in post-mortem blood samples was from ingestion of the drug or was produced by bacteria during decomposition of the body. I'm unsure what to conclude from "he had elevated GHB but not at super high levels." Unfortunately, I haven't been able to watch that episode of the Oxygen series, but I'm still curious if the lab was able to determine what caused the elevated GHB in Hurley's blood--the drug or bacteria. Several years ago, when I was reading about the cases, IIRC, there seemed to be uncertainty and even controversy about the sources of the GHB found in "drowning" victims. I was hoping by now there would be more scientific certainty in determining that. MOO.
TIA to anyone who can help answer this question.
 
Thanks for the link. I can't recall whether the Oxygen show covered that point, although I know for sure that the expert on GHB did not attribute the elevated levels to decomposition. But shows are edited, ya know?

What concerns me is that the video looks like Will is impaired and his blood alcohol did not account for that, nor as to why he would be so impaired as to walk to the water and fall in, when his ride was looking for him. Or for the destruction of his cell phone. And so on. So if he wasn't drunk, what had happened to him? And if it was GHB, how in hell did he ingest it? Hard to picture someone spiking a beer at a hockey game.
 
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