Decomp smell **REVISIT**

[icherish]

I left my very elaborate time line at work, but I believe the date was the
24th?

Just curious... why do so many of you sleuthers believe the body had been stored in the trunk for more than 24 hours? I hypothesize KC disposed of it as quickly as she could... within 24 hours... and REALLY disposed of it, and that's why she's not sweating it. I get the feeling she knows the body will never be found. I can't imagine she would dump it in a dumpster next to the family car.

Because the odor which originated in the trunk had saturated the entire car, to the point where it was bowling people over by the time it was discovered nearly 3 weeks later. My hunch is the body most likely would have to be present for more than 24 hours...a couple of days at least, for the gases to penetrate that deeply. Just my non-expert opinion. It would be great to hear an FP's take on this.

I do agree with you that Casey feels confident the body will never be found.

 

[ijam]

Why didn't LE ask TonE about smell in the car since he admitted he was with her when she got gas cans from parents house..IIRC it was June 20th.

Never mind..I just reread and it was the week before....

 

[mysterycat]

If this has already been said, sorry. I haven't read every post in this thread. I believe Casey's backing the car into the garage 3x the week after June 15th was to try to wash the smell out of the trunk. She couldn't get it washed out. Then she starts telling friends something died in her car... definitely an animal.

Did we ever find out when the chloroform computer search was? Could she have searched after the fact, to find out if it's useful as a cleaning agent?

I like this idea, it will be interesting to see when the chloroform search was but don't know if we will have access to the info for awhile. Would a dead body smell up the car that much in the first few days? Anybody?

 

[natsound]

Because the odor which originated in the trunk had saturated the entire car, to the point where it was bowling people over by the time it was discovered nearly 3 weeks later. My hunch is the body most likely would have to be present for more than 24 hours...a couple of days at least, for the gases to penetrate that deeply. Just my non-expert opinion. It would be great to hear an FP's take on this.

I do agree with you that Casey feels confident the body will never be found.

My hunch is that it would take less than 24 hours for the smell to become overwhelming, in the Florida heat and in an even hotter trunk. I think perhaps Casey tried for a few days to scrub the smell out. She might have even gotten rid of it for a few hours, then it came back, hence backing into the driveway 3x that week. Finally, she gave up.

 

[CarrieBean]

I think there have been numerous cases of people living in a neighboring apartment reporting an odor and police discovering a dead body next door.

Not blocks, though.

This happened at our building about 10 years ago. The man lived in an apartment right in the middle of the building, across from the elevator. Nobody had heard from him in 3 days, so they figured he had been dead for that long. You could smell it throughout the hall on that floor (not sure of the distance, but I believe there are 12 apartments on each floor) and it lingered in the elevator.

The second time I smelled decomp was 7 years ago, during an autopsy (in a pretty small room)that our biology teacher had set up for us. The young man had been dead for 4 days. Even after showering multiple times, I couldn't get rid of the smell. I threw out the clothes I wore that day. It's not a smell you would ever forget. I could smell it for days after, but I think it was all in my mind because nobody else around me could smell it.

I would imagine that even if a small amount of body fluid leaked out, it would be near impossible to get rid of the smell out of the trunk...especially being closed up in a small space, in the heat.

 

[kiki the parrot]

Re the length of time Caylee's little body would need to have been in trunk to cause such an overwhelming smell--seems it would depend as much on what condition her body was in, ie the state of decomp, as much as the duration she was inside. So if Caylee were considerably (wince) decomposed, she may have been placed in trunk briefly (as little as an hour or two, eg) yet more likely to (cringe) leak fluid. And just for my own clarification we DO know don't we that GA was not alone when car was initially retrieved and trunk opened at wrecker yard-when wrecker guy tosses white bag later recovered by LE-but has eliminated any possibility Caylee could have actually been in trunk that day... right? Sorry it's hard to keep all the stories straight...

 

[kiki the parrot]

In other words, if she wasn't successful in retrieving her daughter's body as early as 6/18 (when neighbor reports shovel/backing in) and some time passed, Caylee's state of decomp could've deteriorated to extent that even a brief transferance may have been extremely cumbersome or difficult without leaving traces which became intolerable and grew overpowering w time inside hot trunk. ALSO FYI George reports the cans (taken between 6/22 and 6/23-and reported stolen on 6/24) were recovered later that same day-6/24. BTW Hearing now that contrary to his statements GA may actually have not retrieved cans himself ie was never allowed close enough by Casey and NEVER SAW INSIDE TRUNK, I have a sinking suspicion this is EXACTLY why Casey acts the way she does because he comes harrowingly close to discovering his granddaughter's body.

 

[impatientredhead]

The tow truck driver says that the car they had on the lot that had held a suicide victim for five days was way more intense in smell than Casey's. I think Caylee was in the trunk for about two days. According to the body farm degree day formula the heat in the trunk in Florida would create more than enough decomp for the odor being described. The new ex-boyfriends statement (Chris?) says that she showed up at his house on the 17th, 18th or 19th in Tony's jeep so she was already not driving the Sunbird around at this point.

 

[Tracy1]

I read on a site about Cleaners who clean up death scenes that depending on how hot it was and how long a body was left in a house or apartment, many times they have to take the wallboard down to the studs. They can't get the smell out no matter what.

It also said that the smell of a decomposing body gets in everything....peoples hair, their clothes, everything. that is one reason why they totally cover themselves in protective gear when cleaning up a death scene. And this is not only a violent death scene. Just if someone had died and wasn't found for a day or so.

Basically, it is impossible to get the smell out of carpet etc. Impossible.

 

[Marple]

I always wondered about this too and I have found it odd. Did George go to work? A very strange time to go to work after finding the car and the condition it was in. Exactly where was he during these hours. Not only doesn't he answer CA's calls, but LA had to go over to the house because CA was so upset. If he was at work, strange, but that would explain it. If not, very very suspicious. I'm beginning to wonder if the body was still in the trunk and he disposed of it at that time.

IIRC, GA started a new job on that day and was at work.

 

[kiki the parrot]

Yes I read too there were a couple days Tony said he did let Casey drive his jeep just while he was out of town... we know she also drove Amy's for a week during her vacation but I believe she was still driving Pontiac periodically until the point at which she abandoned on 6/27. And THAT is why I personally believe she had Caylee inside the trunk for an extended period of time: as I believe it was when another place for Caylee's body was found that she could safely abandon the vehicle. Otherwise she would risk the body being found. *I know that sounds horrid that someone kept driving around with a body in an advanced state of decomp, but we're talking about borderline personality-disorder-at-best, immature mother who if she UNintentionally caused death of her child may feasibly have had major denial or trouble parting with Caylee's remains but was eventually forced to due to gas and/or smell and fear of exposure this caused. That's my current working theory anyway re timing of ditching car right after disposing of Caylee which leaves a window of up to a WEEK or TEN DAYS that Caylee may have been concealed in the trunk. Btw after reading interview w tow manager there was no way Caylee could have been in there. And if it didn't smell as bad to him as the suicide car that's also likely because a) it was a 40 pound toddler vs much larger adult and b) could have been gunshot wound which would've probably accelerated decomp process plus c) it was in car interior vs trunk. Just some random thoughts I've had...(

 

[kiki the parrot]

BTW Anybody notice how NOBODY reports smelling ANY THING RESEMBLING CHLOROFORM at tow yard or prior... which only supports my hunch that it was used later (after recovering vehicle, but before it was picked up by crime lab). To my disappointment there was nothing within the computer forensic report released today re chloroform. Notably there IS an internet search from as late as 7/16 (re search for name ZF-G). So... since it was reported that chloroform searches were done on Casey's laptop; and we know chloroform would've definitely been needed and USED by this point and since there was such a toxic saturation of chloroform even when gases were sampled this all leads me to think a) searches were likely for USE (and not purchase) of chloroform; b) this likely was used while Casey was behind bars (right?); and c) this specific search info being withheld by LE... or any other ideas?

 

[txanmom]

be gentle dear posters as this is my first thread to start. I hope this is not a repeat i have tried to read up as much as possible although i missed 8 days as i had no power in the wake of Hurricane Ike.


Anyway, that smell just has me going crazy. I can see this anti-social, party girl mama deleting/killing (either accidentally or intentionally) Caylee because of the "mistake" of her, because of her "unfit mother" status with CA, and because of the ultimate revenge against her mother (ie; taking that which was most important and beloved of CA). Here is what i don't get, KC dissasociate all you want but everyone who came near that car was absolutely appalled by the smell.

When i was a girl we lived in a remote area and people would constantly dump their unwanted pets on our road. As a result I have smelled animal death on a few occassions here is what I know. We could drive by in a locked car with windows down and would begin to smell it several yards before and after we came upon the worst of the smell. I am sure they were dumped far from the road we were travelling.

SO, how in the h*ll was she able to drive around with that smell. I mean come on no matter what mindset she had how, how, how did it make everyone else so disgusted but she just drove around easy-peasy with that horrible nauseating smell all the while knowing she created the smell.

Also, slightly ot - what in her mind made her think she could originally bury her in the yard of her parents!!I mean didn't it occurr to her that they might want to dig up their yard just for yardwork, etc. Also, the smell would have eminated even from a burial hole, right?

this is all so sickening, i don't even know who to vent to, so i guess i am doing it here.

 

[SleuthinCa]

Sociopaths can easily disassociate from things, I doubt the smell bothered her at all.

 

[Sammi99]

be gentle dear posters as this is my first thread to start. I hope this is not a repeat i have tried to read up as much as possible although i missed 8 days as i had no power in the wake of Hurricane Ike. Oh my, you are are definitely behind on this case if you missed 8 days and I hope all is well for you, your family and community.


Anyway, that smell just has me going crazy. I can see this anti-social, party girl mama deleting/killing (either accidentally or intentionally) Caylee because of the "mistake" of her, because of her "unfit mother" status with CA, and because of the ultimate revenge against her mother (ie; taking that which was most important and beloved of CA). Here is what i don't get, KC dissasociate all you want but everyone who came near that car was absolutely appalled by the smell. I don't think princess KC was enjoying the awful smell but she must not have had any alternatives while she was forced to drive the Sunfire.

When i was a girl we lived in a remote area and people would constantly dump their unwanted pets on our road. As a result I have smelled animal death on a few occassions here is what I know. We could drive by in a locked car with windows down and would begin to smell it several yards before and after we came upon the worst of the smell. I am sure they were dumped far from the road we were travelling.

SO, how in the h*ll was she able to drive around with that smell. I mean come on no matter what mindset she had how, how, how did it make everyone else so disgusted but she just drove around easy-peasy with that horrible nauseating smell all the while knowing she created the smell.I'm sure she was miserable driving a car with a smell of decomposition but again she was out of options at that point. Later she was able to borrow TnE Lz 's car but it wasn't until after she abandoned hers and he went to New York. Then she was only able to borrow Amy's while she was on vacation to Peurto Rico after TnE Lz came back from NY. So it wasn't a matter of dealing with the situation well, she really had a situation she had to deal with and no other options at the moment. Also she might have been under the influence of lots of stress hormones like adrenaline at that precarious time (fear of being found out) which might have helped her ignore the odor.

Also, slightly ot - what in her mind made her think she could originally bury her in the yard of her parents!!I mean didn't it occurr to her that they might want to dig up their yard just for yardwork, etc. Also, the smell would have eminated even from a burial hole, right?

this is all so sickening, i don't even know who to vent to, so i guess i am doing it here.

 

[magic-cat]

Not trying to be disgusting or outlandish, but I discovered something last week that I could not believe I did not know. My own daughter had gone on a school trip in one of her AP classes to Virginia Tech and they went to some sort of scientific research facility that HAD cadavers. I was discussing this case with her and I said in an offhand way that I had never SMELLED a dead body, so I could not make an absolute statement that a dead human body does not smell like, say, a squirrel for instance. This is when I discovered the information that I had been unaware of. She said, "I have smelled dead bodies mommy, when we went to Virginia Tech." I asked if they were not preserved chemically and she said of course they were, but you could STILL smell the cadaver smell CLEARLY. I asked her if she could describe it, and she said that it was a smell she could and would never forget. I asked her if she smelled it again, would she recognize it and she was 100% positive that she would. I then asked her if she thought it could be mistaken for something else, and she said that once you have smelled THAT smell one time, there is no way to confuse it with ANYTHING else-it was very distinctive.

So I wondered if we have any other sleuths who might have had the opportunity or the misfortune to smell the scent of a deceased human, and if they could share with those of us who have not their thoughts on "confusing" this smell with something else. I also wondered if anyone knows of anything else that could immitate THAT smell???

I guess it is just a time of HORRIBLE threads...Sorry.:blowkiss:

 

[butwhatif?]

Thankfully no.uke:

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[magic-cat]

Thankfully no.uke:

​

Me too!:clap:

 

[Paladine]

(snipped for brevity....)

So I wondered if we have any other sleuths who might have had the opportunity or the misfortune to smell the scent of a deceased human, and if they could share with those of us who have not their thoughts on "confusing" this smell with something else. I also wondered if anyone knows of anything else that could immitate THAT smell???

I guess it is just a time of HORRIBLE threads...Sorry.:blowkiss:

My Father-in-law was found 2 days after death in his room, he lived alone...I was in the room after the funeral, so, at least 4 days after his body was removed. The smell made me nauseated , I had to leave or I would have vomited.

My Husband was found by me, about 2 hours after his death...no smell, but some bluish pooling of blood was seen, his lips were blue...but when my Son, 18, gave him CPR, not realizing he was deceased for so long, he said he couldn't get the "TASTE" out of his mouth for months...I now suspect it was the taste of decomp.

It's pretty potent stuff...

 

[Sunshinegirl]

So I wondered if we have any other sleuths who might have had the opportunity or the misfortune to smell the scent of a deceased human, and if they could share with those of us who have not their thoughts on "confusing" this smell with something else. I also wondered if anyone knows of anything else that could immitate THAT smell???

snipped...

I found this on another site... I guess this description gives you an idea of the smell of a decomposing body (which I highly doubt could ever be mistaken with PIZZA)

if the homicide investigator smelled "decomposition", there was a dead body somewhere around the vicinity. I hate to be so graphic but, until you smell a cadaver, you haven't smelled anything bad. Imagine the smell of a hot tar pot, combined with the smell of a 5 gallon bucket full of rotten eggs, combined with a weeks worth of poopie diapers, combined with about 100 pounds of rotten fish, combined with the smell of a dead cow. Once you smell that smell, you never forget it and you will recognize it no matter where or when you smell it next. It's a very unique - and very bad -odor.