The dead squirrel

[The Eunice Burns]

So it is okay to think KC is lying about the squirrel, but it is illogical to think that bacon fat is commonly found in kitchen trash bags?
My opinion is that it is logical to think one might find bacon fat in a kitchen trash bag, and that KC was probably lying about the squirrel.

It is not logical however, to conclude that SB of Johnson's, GA, CA, LA, the first LE officers who (eventually) smelled the car, etc.......were all smelling rank or rancid bacon fat/grease or any other processed pork product. The reactions they had to the reeking odor are all consistent w/ people who have smelled human decomp. For example, I don't think SB's reaction would have been nearly as strong and certain (which he was, b/c he had just recently smelled that horrific stench of human decomp) if it had been bacon fat. LA described the smell as "atrocious". Does "atrocious" sound like a good descriptor for bacon/pork fat on a paper towel that has sat for some days? As stated numerous times before, the meats you are hanging your hat on, are all processed. Processed meats do not emit the same rank odor of decay in a garbage can or bag. Why? B/c of preservatives and/or the smoked meat process. So, it defies logic that all of these people who will be questioned on the stand simply smelled the odor of some pork fat product. The problem for JB and AL is that unfortunately this is not just one person who can testify to the odor of death. That is why they are going to try and put KC's car in someone else's custody, b/c they will not be able to refute the car and all the evidence in it and the testimony of people who smelled it. As for distancing KC from that car..........good luck with all that.

 

[Eidetic]

Anyone else losing their appetite for bacon the more this discussion goes on? I of course think there is no chemical correlation between cadaver wax and a processed-fried-pork product grease, nor do I think they would smell anything alike but they are becoming linked in my head!

I am just a couple weeks shy of my 4 month anniversary where I lost my appetite for bacon amongst other deceased animal products :martini:

But yes :yes: , had I still ate meat, at least for a while, I wouldn't be able to prepare bacon without thinking of this thread. :sick:

 

[technicalconfusion]

It is not logical however, to conclude that SB of Johnson's, GA, CA, LA, the first LE officers who (eventually) smelled the car, etc.......were all smelling rank or rancid bacon fat/grease or any other processed pork product.

Through all of this talk of bacon fat/bacon grease, I am warmly reminded of the can of bacon grease that sat in an un-airconditioned house in Florida as I was growing up, to be used in various dishes.

Does bacon fat go bad? According to my mom, it doesn't. She still has a can in her kitchen. Ya'll want some?

 

[LambChop]

Through all of this talk of bacon fat/bacon grease, I am warmly reminded of the can of bacon grease that sat in an un-airconditioned house in Florida as I was growing up, to be used in various dishes.

Does bacon fat go bad? According to my mom, it doesn't. She still has a can in her kitchen. Ya'll want some?

OT but I think bacon grease keeps because it is smoked.

 

[thedeviledadvocate]

BBM -

In my opinion, the texts from Casey mentioning the Squirrel will be brought up by the PROSECUTION, as they show that Casey was aware of a TERRIBLE smell in her car, and was lying to cover up the reason for that smell.

You've done some hard work on your analysis, TDA - much more than some people have done, and that is to be commended.

However, your arguments have not convinced me, as there is too much evidence that points directly towards Casey having Caylee in the trunk of her car and causing the terrible smell that has been witnessed by numerous people as well as dogs. No squirrel involved. Or bacon fat. IMO

.

thanks, and I agree, the prosecution probably will bring up the squirrel for the reasons you stated.
I have a question to anyone who is certain the smell in the trunk is from human decomposition. Since there was no trace of a dead squirrel in the trunk, or a live one for that matter, I am going to say we can all agree the smell in the trunk was not from a squirrel. While researching human decomp, I read that when you remove a body from an area the odor starts to dissipate. If Caylee’s remains were in the trunk 2.6 days and removed prior to July 23rd when TL was near the open trunk and did not smell anything out of the ordinary, and GA did not smell anything on the 24th when he was near the open trunk and KC gave him his freaking gas cans, then how did the smell get so terrible over the next 2 and a half weeks? This is the problem I have with the smell in the trunk. To my knowledge there is only trace evidence of what might be human decomp in the trunk, so, if TL and GA can’t smell anything how did the smell get so much worse when there were only traces of decomp in the trunk. This is where I can’t follow the logic that the smell was caused by Caylee’s remains. The odor should have been strong enough on the 23rd and the 24th if it was so horrendous two and a half weeks later. moo

 

[logicalgirl]

Wasn't it because the body was initially contained in two garbage bags and the laundry basket, but as it started to decompose, it leaked decomp fluid into the trunk of the car and it is the decomp fluid that smells so badly, even though the body has obviously been removed? IMO

 

[Muzikman]

thanks, and I agree, the prosecution probably will bring up the squirrel for the reasons you stated.
I have a question to anyone who is certain the smell in the trunk is from human decomposition. Since there was no trace of a dead squirrel in the trunk, or a live one for that matter, I am going to say we can all agree the smell in the trunk was not from a squirrel. While researching human decomp, I read that when you remove a body from an area the odor starts to dissipate. If Caylee’s remains were in the trunk 2.6 days and removed prior to July 23rd when TL was near the open trunk and did not smell anything out of the ordinary, and GA did not smell anything on the 24th when he was near the open trunk and KC gave him his freaking gas cans, then how did the smell get so terrible over the next 2 and a half weeks? This is the problem I have with the smell in the trunk. To my knowledge there is only trace evidence of what might be human decomp in the trunk, so, if TL and GA can’t smell anything how did the smell get so much worse when there were only traces of decomp in the trunk. This is where I can’t follow the logic that the smell was caused by Caylee’s remains. The odor should have been strong enough on the 23rd and the 24th if it was so horrendous two and a half weeks later. moo

BBM -

Where did you read that? I would say that it is incorrect. The smell would not be that bad at first, but the longer the car sat in the hot sun, the worse it would get.

From a Death/Decomp cleanup service website:
http://www.cendecon.com/services/human-decomposition/decomp-cleanup

Something to know about doing a decomposition cleanup – there is more than meets the eye. Body fluids can and will seep into any porous surface. If a body decomposes on the 2nd floor of a building, chances are you will need to locate, remove and treat areas on the 1st floor, depending on how long the body was left.

Another thing to consider with a decomp cleanup - the longer the body went undiscovered the worse the damage and smell. It’s pretty much a guarantee that all carpet, furniture, clothing and other belongings will retain the death odor until properly treated - even if these items were on the opposite end of the house.


ETA - As for the "Trace Evidence" sentence, well, Casey and the family had some time to clean up the trunk BEFORE they called LE. We'll never know what they did, probably.

 

[logicalgirl]

Muzikman - I bow in thanks to you. Thank you for giving a real answer to what I was trying to say.

 

[darlin gal]

Most people think the stench of death would evaporate and go away in the winds of time passing. Your only likely brush with death has been in a hospital where leaking body fluids are immediately contained and quickly flushed away. The floors are scrubbed with disinfectant. The plastic coated mattresses are washed. Air conditioning runs night and day to drag out the first stench of death.

There are actually special services that will come in and clean a home where a dead body has been found that has been there for a couple of days.

The smell/odor seeps into clothing/carpet/fabric and unless it's cleaned and disinfected and aired out properly it will cling to the fibers.

Being all closed up for months, the detectives said the car still omits a smell, IIRC.

 

[Eidetic]

thanks, and I agree, the prosecution probably will bring up the squirrel for the reasons you stated.
I have a question to anyone who is certain the smell in the trunk is from human decomposition. Since there was no trace of a dead squirrel in the trunk, or a live one for that matter, I am going to say we can all agree the smell in the trunk was not from a squirrel. While researching human decomp, I read that when you remove a body from an area the odor starts to dissipate. If Caylee’s remains were in the trunk 2.6 days and removed prior to July 23rd when TL was near the open trunk and did not smell anything out of the ordinary, and GA did not smell anything on the 24th when he was near the open trunk and KC gave him his freaking gas cans, then how did the smell get so terrible over the next 2 and a half weeks? This is the problem I have with the smell in the trunk. To my knowledge there is only trace evidence of what might be human decomp in the trunk, so, if TL and GA can’t smell anything how did the smell get so much worse when there were only traces of decomp in the trunk. This is where I can’t follow the logic that the smell was caused by Caylee’s remains. The odor should have been strong enough on the 23rd and the 24th if it was so horrendous two and a half weeks later. moo

Bolded by me.

Since we can agree that the smell did not come from a decomposing squirrel, why then, is it proving such a task to come to the same conclusion about the source of the smell not coming from a pig or dairy products for that matter(even though there was no cheese present in the empty packages recovered in the evidence from the trunk, just for argument's sake...)?

I live in Maryland, it can get pretty hot here during the summers. Before I had gone down and gotten the window unit, I had a bag of potatoes foolishly sitting out in my kitchen. The bag of potatoes quickly went rancid, leaking fluids, turned black etc.
How I had come to realize the bag had turned was because they produced a smell that took your breath away, causing you to dry heave long after you had blocked your nasal passages. Just recalling the smell was enough to set you off.
It was sweet, yet cheesy as well as slightly fishy. Absolutely Disgusting.
This (rotting potatoes), from what I have gathered doing my own research, is a smell that can almost be compared to that of human decomposition.
Human decomposition of course, since it was once a body flowing with blood and functioning organs, having taken up a considerable amount of space unlike a few fist sized potatoes, would have been much more foul and putrid.

The answer regarding the smell and how it had progressively gotten worse over two weeks even after the body had been removed is a simple one, decomposition becomes stronger and more offensive the more time passes and the further advanced decomposition is.
Especially in a hot abandoned, sealed up vehicle.

One of the first things I do when I get home from grocery shopping is put my potatoes in the crisper.

 

[mydailyopinions]

Forgive me for laughing, but I must get this out...

People, squirrels do not stick to frames when they are hit..they just don't! You may find a bit of blood, a bit of hair, but never once in my life (and I live in the south) met someone on the road with a squirrel plastered on the front of a car! One would have to live in cartoon world to see that..

#2 Lets just say a squirrel crawled under her hood and died. Now, this is very likely to happen, as I myself have had it happen...Yet, let me explain when I knew the squirrel was there... It most certainly was not from a smell, but my oil needed to be changed and when we opened the hood, there it lay..dead as a doornail...almost bones...so it had been there a while. This was right through summer when I was driving a whole lot! Never smelled anything..
My point being..
There was no dead squirrel making her car stink.....there just wasn't..

Casey put the bag of trash into her car from Tony's. IMHO this was done after the car started to smell..this way she could say the trash was the source of the smell and not that a dead child once was placed in there. If there were any other explanation (including bacon grease) Casey would have just thrown the damn trash in the dumpster.
ETA: If Bacon Grease was causing that kind of smell in a car, one would think the idiot driving would just dump the dang bag....
But, if you are using a bag of trash to cover a smell....

 

[Bittiness39]

Types of squirrels found in Florida:

Fox squirrel, Easter gray squirrel, Southern Flying squirrel.

Oddly enough I googled "Mythical Squirrel" and it lead me to the Urban Dictionary and the term ericaceous...and one of the definitions for ericaceous is: A mythical squirrel demon known for smiting molesters. (Protector of vulnerable persons.)

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=squirrel+demon

 

[logicalgirl]

I'm officially a WS addict! I can't believe I've spent almost an entire day on a thread about squirrels, and particularly squirrels that weren't even there - didn't even stroll by close to this car, let alone dive into the engine, burrow their way back into the trunk lining, hang out in the garbage back there, dining on empty pizza boxes, then crawled back down to the chassis, glued themselves to it and died - completely stinking up the place for months to come. I've also officially lost my mind.

 

[mydailyopinions]

Forgive me, but some things in this case come right down to common sense.
:waitasec:
And might I add that I hope the jury has just an ounce of common sense where this smell is concerned..

Bacon Grease? Give me a break!

 

[JBean]

Forgive me for laughing, but I must get this out...

People, squirrels do not stick to frames when they are hit..they just don't! You may find a bit of blood, a bit of hair, but never once in my life (and I live in the south) met someone on the road with a squirrel plastered on the front of a car! One would have to live in cartoon world to see that..

#2 Lets just say a squirrel crawled under her hood and died. Now, this is very likely to happen, as I myself have had it happen...Yet, let me explain when I knew the squirrel was there... It most certainly was not from a smell, but my oil needed to be changed and when we opened the hood, there it lay..dead as a doornail...almost bones...so it had been there a while. This was right through summer when I was driving a whole lot! Never smelled anything..
My point being..
There was no dead squirrel making her car stink.....there just wasn't..

Casey put the bag of trash into her car from Tony's. IMHO this was done after the car started to smell..this way she could say the trash was the source of the smell and not that a dead child once was placed in there. If there were any other explanation (including bacon grease) Casey would have just thrown the damn trash in the dumpster.
ETA: If Bacon Grease was causing that kind of smell in a car, one would think the idiot driving would just dump the dang bag....
But, if you are using a bag of trash to cover a smell....

Why would she put a bag of trash in the car to cover the smell if she already told everyone it was a dead squirrel?

 

[AZlawyer]

Forgive me for laughing, but I must get this out...

People, squirrels do not stick to frames when they are hit..they just don't! You may find a bit of blood, a bit of hair, but never once in my life (and I live in the south) met someone on the road with a squirrel plastered on the front of a car! One would have to live in cartoon world to see that..

#2 Lets just say a squirrel crawled under her hood and died. Now, this is very likely to happen, as I myself have had it happen...Yet, let me explain when I knew the squirrel was there... It most certainly was not from a smell, but my oil needed to be changed and when we opened the hood, there it lay..dead as a doornail...almost bones...so it had been there a while. This was right through summer when I was driving a whole lot! Never smelled anything..
My point being..
There was no dead squirrel making her car stink.....there just wasn't..

Casey put the bag of trash into her car from Tony's. IMHO this was done after the car started to smell..this way she could say the trash was the source of the smell and not that a dead child once was placed in there. If there were any other explanation (including bacon grease) Casey would have just thrown the damn trash in the dumpster.
ETA: If Bacon Grease was causing that kind of smell in a car, one would think the idiot driving would just dump the dang bag....
But, if you are using a bag of trash to cover a smell....

Exactly...the squirrel thing was obviously a lie, and the only point of the lie would be to explain the smell (with something other than the true explanation), and it would never occur to Casey to make up a false explanation for the smell if the true explanation was bacon grease. Why wouldn't she just say, "Boy, my car stinks. I forgot to take out a trash bag with some bacon grease in it and man oh man it smells bad. I think I'll just leave it in there for another couple of days." :waitasec:

Which brings up another point: if bacon grease (or anything at all in the trash) was causing the smell, Casey would have simply thrown out the bag once she realized that fact. We know she was aware of the smell before she left the car at the Amscot. If she thought the smell was coming from the trash bag, she would have tossed the bag into the dumpster that was RIGHT NEXT TO HER CAR when she left it at Amscot.

The squirrel lie, once it is recognized as a lie, allows 2 reasonable conclusions: (1) Casey was aware something was making a smell in her car, (2) she thought she had gotten rid of the thing making the smell (therefore she did not think the trash bag was making the smell).

 

[mydailyopinions]

Why would she put a bag of trash in the car to cover the smell if she already told everyone it was a dead squirrel?

There was no dead squirrel in my opinion. And I think that after saying it she must have had to realize just how stupid saying it was...afterall, the people she told have hit squirrels and would have known it was bs...
I say this because I have hit them, have found one rotting under my hood before and never once did I smell it or know it was there until I had to change my oil..The poor little thing was bones! 100 degree's outside and I never once smelled it driving.. Casey would have to realize that people have common sense..
Now, my personal opinion is that if she were not trying to cover something up with the trash, she would have simply thrown it in a dumpster...
The trash created exactly what she wanted it to create in case she was ever busted...a doubt about what was in the car..

 

[Marina2]

thanks, and I agree, the prosecution probably will bring up the squirrel for the reasons you stated.
I have a question to anyone who is certain the smell in the trunk is from human decomposition. Since there was no trace of a dead squirrel in the trunk, or a live one for that matter, I am going to say we can all agree the smell in the trunk was not from a squirrel. While researching human decomp, I read that when you remove a body from an area the odor starts to dissipate. If Caylee’s remains were in the trunk 2.6 days and removed prior to July 23rd when TL was near the open trunk and did not smell anything out of the ordinary, and GA did not smell anything on the 24th when he was near the open trunk and KC gave him his freaking gas cans, then how did the smell get so terrible over the next 2 and a half weeks? This is the problem I have with the smell in the trunk. To my knowledge there is only trace evidence of what might be human decomp in the trunk, so, if TL and GA can’t smell anything how did the smell get so much worse when there were only traces of decomp in the trunk. This is where I can’t follow the logic that the smell was caused by Caylee’s remains. The odor should have been strong enough on the 23rd and the 24th if it was so horrendous two and a half weeks later. moo

Bold is mine.
But, the smell did not get so terrible over the next 2 and a half weeks. It was terrible, according to KC, on the 25th. That's only a day or two after GA and TL were near the trunk. I can't believe something happened in that trunk between the 24th and the 25th to produce the odor KC spoke of. It must have been horrible on the 25th because she was still talking about it on the 27th. Did something happen between the time GA was near the car on the 24th and when KC told AH about the smell on the 25th? Or, are there reasons that GA and TL did not smell it when they were near the car? Personally, I don't believe anything an Anthony says regarding the case. And TL may not have gotten close enough, or the gas fumes, or the wind direction may have prevented him smelling anything on the 23rd. I do believe that the trunk had a horrible smell on the 25th or KC would not have mentioned it to AH twice. I also believe the smell was there on the 23rd and the 24th.

 

[magic-cat]

Or there really was parts of a dead animal underneath on the frame. I really wish LE would have let Dr Henry Lee back in there to inspect the frame. But they chose not to and now we have to deal with that.

Or, it was just a figure of speech. The real smell was the garbage. IMO

If I am not completely off base, I believe Dr. Lee declined to examine the undercarriage, it was not that he was denied access. And if I am not completely off base again, LE did examine the underside of the vehicle and found? Nothing.:waitasec:

As to the smell being the garbage? Highly unlikely that a bag of empty containers and snuff spit in a sealed bottle even remotely would have resembled the smell of a human being decomposing...highly doubtful...actually, I would guess impossible...dead bodies do not smell anything like a bag of garbage.:snooty:

Neither does the squirrel story jive with Casey's OWN story that she removed the source of the odor-the dead squirrel.

 

[manatee]

Ok people....I've had enough. Sorry for the upcoming rant! bacon grease or fat would never smell like human decomposition. Google it! It is actually used for cooking. Some people call it LARD! my grandmother use to love to cook with it. If the FBI would confuse it with fat from decomposition they need to go back to school. this discussion is silly IMVHO. i'm done now.