Defense Witness List

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That's pretty amusing! What a lack of faith we have in the Defense...The Defense posts an expert witness and our first reaction is "yah sure"!

I've got the same comment as everyone else - I see the list - I don't believe the majority of these people will testify. Have they even had the expenses of these experts approved? Possibly Dr. Lee but has anyone else been paid yet?

Could this long list be Baez looking for more money to spread around? Doesn't he know the JAC won't let him do this?

I actually hope he really does have all these witnesses. Let's have a good solid trial before ICA is found guilty and sentenced to LWOP or the DP.
 
LiveLaughLuv said:
Among those on the list:

•Dr. Henry Lee, the well-known criminalist and forensic pathologist often associated with the O.J. Simpson case. According to his website, Lee is founder and professor of the Forensic Science Program at the University of New Haven. During a 40-year period, Lee assisted with the investigations of some 6,000 cases.

• Dr. Tim Huntington, an assistant professor at Concordia University, Nebraska, and a board-certified entomologist. Forensic entomology applies the study of insects to a legal context to help establish times of death and postmortem movement of bodies.

• Richard Eikelenboom, a renowned Dutch forensic expert who, along with his wife Selma, is a partner at Independent Forensic Services, a Netherlands lab specializing in trace evidence recovery and Touch DNA testing. They are considered pioneers in the field of "Touch DNA." Richard Eikelenboom is a DNA expert who handles blood-pattern analysis.

Other experts listed by the defense are:
Dr. Werner Spitz, from Michigan;
Dr. Kathy Reichs, of North Carolina;
Dr. Jane H. Bock, of the University of Colorado Ecology and Evolutionary Biology Department;
Dr. Scott Fairgrieve, chair of the Department of Forensic Science at Laurentian University in Ontario;
Dr. Kenneth Furton, of University Medical & Forensic Consultants, Inc., in West Palm Beach;
Dr. Barry Logan of National Medical Services, Inc., in Willow Grove, Pennsylvania;
Dr. John Leeson, of Winter Springs;
Dr. William Rodriguez, of Maryland;
Dr. Michael Freeman, forensic epidemiologist;
Michael O'Kelly, an expert witness out of Nebraska.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the list LiveLaughLuv - so this is the list for the guilt phase of the trial - yes? Not including the mitigation witnesses - which for now seems to be sealed. So we don't know if J. Barrett will testify or not.

Is anyone able to say specifically what subject each of these people will testify on? ThinkTank? You are the pro here!
 
kaRN said:
\

I thought AF was asking to replace her yesterday?
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I'm kinda wondering if AF thinks J.Barrett comes with too much baggage. AF was asking to work with someone else at the last hearing also. If I remember right, HHJP asked for more information on why she needed another one and asked her to make a written presentation to him before he made a decision either way.

But then that's just me remembering......:dance:
 
I am actually elated by this witness list. It is going to be very difficult, if not impossible, for Casey's appeal to indicate she did not have an opportunity to refute the experts of the state. These are world reknown experts, not the new kids who just got out of college.

Regarding Mrs. Barrett, I think her job is to make a report for the lawyers, not to come to trial, necessarily. I believe that indeed she is still on the case as her billing was brought up in the last two hearings. She has been on this case since Andrea joined, iirc. Surely Andrea, Cheney, Ann and or the JAC would have well settled the matter of if she needs to be licensed in Florida. If not them, I belive that Jeff or Linda would have brought it to the judge's attention that legally she is not permitted to be on the case unless and until she does so. That brings me to all of the other out of the state and out of the country experts, do they have any requirement to be licensed in the State of Florida to take the stand?

The documents that Kathi had when she reported that Henry Lee had been paid 8K and JL had been paid 8K, do we have those? If yes, does anyone know if they detail what and by whom she was paid? At the indigency hearing did Jose say he paid her out of the trust fund or that she was paid through Andrea's clinic, or that she had not been paid at all up until then?

If the lawyer is privately retained before the indigency he cannot be paid by JAC, but is that rule different when it is an expert
Henry Lee, for example?
Once he declared publicly he was working on the case pro bono, that did not mean he could not begin charging for his work once there was the state to bill?

Back to Mrs. Barrett, and Mrs. Finnell, I recall the judge being told, Mrs. Finnell, did not want in any way to take hours away from Mrs. Barrett, but rather that she wanted a local specialist also. Am I remembering correctly that he told her to make a decision; because the state was not going to pay for two, what he would give her is some hours for a investigator to contact local would be witnesses?
Yesterday at the hearing when she said she was not yet able to secure a specialist in the psychology area, I assumed she was referring to something altogether different than a person who would report on the relatives , friends and social aspects of Casey's upbringing, but rather medical doctor, a psychiatrist, perhaps. Is that how you took it?
I especially thought that Anne was representing to the judge, regarding the Ohio relatives , etc.that she was the new guy added to the team , that they like to go at things their way, new guys that is. The odd thing is the judge had already told the defense he wanted time sheets from Mrs. Barrett that he and JAC would go over with a fine tooth comb so there would be no duplicating the work.

O/T I learned in one of her book tour interviews that the expert, Kathi Reichs is a reknown author and is the inspiration for the show Bones.
 
Sure looks like an impressive list. You'd think at least one of them would have contradicted the SAO's forensic findings.....in their final report. But alas, nobody had anything worthy to add to the work done by the experts commissioned by the state. That's a lot of people unwilling to commit themselves in writing. LOL!!

Wasn't it AL who advised her students to put everyone they could on their witness list so that the pros couldn't? How very clever. Too bad none of them can contradict the science that was already done. To contradict the existing scienctific reports, you need to generate some yourself.
It's called Scientific Process, a concept every single DR on their list teaches daily. Has nothing to do with law. I was angry to learn from the lawyers here that it's normal and shrewd for the defense to play this game and maybe it is. There won't be any lawyers on the jury however, but theres a good chance many jurors will be seated who understand scientific process and what the lack of a finalized report means.

That's a lot of hotel rooms for JB to pay for out of pocket. Airfare from Sudbury lol, crab puffs.
Are you baffled with the BS yet? Me neither :loser:
 
kaRN said:
Sure looks like an impressive list. You'd think at least one of them would have contradicted the SAO's forensic findings.....in their final report. But alas, nobody had anything worthy to add to the work done by the experts commissioned by the state. That's a lot of people unwilling to commit themselves in writing. LOL!!

Wasn't it AL who advised her students to put everyone they could on their witness list so that the pros couldn't? How very clever. Too bad none of them can contradict the science that was already done. To contradict the existing scienctific reports, you need to generate some yourself.
It's called Scientific Process, a concept every single DR on their list teaches daily. Has nothing to do with law. I was angry to learn from the lawyers here that it's normal and shrewd for the defense to play this game and maybe it is. There won't be any lawyers on the jury however, but theres a good chance many jurors will be seated who understand scientific process and what the lack of a finalized report means.

That's a lot of hotel rooms for JB to pay for out of pocket. Airfare from Sudbury lol, crab puffs.
Are you baffled with the BS yet? Me neither :loser:
Click to expand...

Wasn't it Bill Schaeffer who said in his last video experts don't write reports unless they get paid for them? I guess that means........
 
Will the jury respect the experts opinions or see them as hired guns?
Here is a partial list for the Prosecution of all the books currently out by the defense lawyers/experts.

We know Professor Lyons just released a book.

Dr. Badden and his wife Linda Kenny Badden released a book this year. I guess she got her exposure, then bailed.

Kathy Reichs the forensic anthropologist released a book, 206 Bones.

Dr. Werner Spitz is the author and editor of the textbook, Medicolegal Investigation of Death, now in its third edition and considered to be the authoritative textbook in this specialty, worldwide.

Dr. Lee has a book out currently too.

Do we really wonder how and why being involved in a high profile case that is covered nationally and internationally helps them? Pro bono? How about free advertising?

We see them often on news and cable shows giving commentary, even about this case. So they clearly enjoy the limelight. Do you think it will effect their credibility with the jury when the prosecutor asks them if they are currently peddling a book?

comment from Richard Hornsby on his blog in regards to the experts:


Richard Hornsby says:
December 29, 2009 at 10:38 am

snippet

...the problem an expert witness list creates for Baez is two-fold.

1. It requires your experts to finally give their opinion – and an opinion is no good unless is supports your theory. If their opinion does not support your theory, you don’t list them.

2. It allows the State to inquire into how they are getting paid, by whom, and financial arrangements they have made, and media rights they have negotiated, etc. And if the experts are doing this “pro bono” the State can then go into ulterior reasons they agreed to work on the case – books that are coming out, etc.

3. Finally, when the State deposes an expert (or any attorney deposes the other sides’ expert) the opponent has to pay the expert what the expert charges the hiring attorney. So if these experts are not charging Baez, they are not allowed to charge the State.

Basically the witness list opens Pandora’s Financial Box for Mr. Baez."
http://blog.richardhornsby.com/2009/...time/#comments

Thanks to AZ lawyer fore helping me with my pro bono questions!!!
[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4622164&postcount=6"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Legal Questions for Our VERIFIED Lawyers[/ame]

http://www.cobblawfirm.com/Rules_Discovery.htm
 
logicalgirl said:
That's pretty amusing! What a lack of faith we have in the Defense...The Defense posts an expert witness and our first reaction is "yah sure"!

I've got the same comment as everyone else - I see the list - I don't believe the majority of these people will testify. Have they even had the expenses of these experts approved? Possibly Dr. Lee but has anyone else been paid yet?

Could this long list be Baez looking for more money to spread around? Doesn't he know the JAC won't let him do this?

I actually hope he really does have all these witnesses. Let's have a good solid trial before ICA is found guilty and sentenced to LWOP or the DP.
Click to expand...

Dr. Lee's expertise is in blood spatter. There's no blood spatter involved in this case. He charges about $300,000 just to testify and I don't think FL will agree to that. He's not an expert in insect activity, or fauna and flora in the Florida area. I have NO IDEA what use he is to the defense other than a big name to use.
 
kaRN said:
Sure looks like an impressive list. You'd think at least one of them would have contradicted the SAO's forensic findings.....in their final report. But alas, nobody had anything worthy to add to the work done by the experts commissioned by the state. That's a lot of people unwilling to commit themselves in writing. LOL!!

Wasn't it AL who advised her students to put everyone they could on their witness list so that the pros couldn't? How very clever. Too bad none of them can contradict the science that was already done. To contradict the existing scienctific reports, you need to generate some yourself.
It's called Scientific Process, a concept every single DR on their list teaches daily. Has nothing to do with law. I was angry to learn from the lawyers here that it's normal and shrewd for the defense to play this game and maybe it is. There won't be any lawyers on the jury however, but theres a good chance many jurors will be seated who understand scientific process and what the lack of a finalized report means.

That's a lot of hotel rooms for JB to pay for out of pocket. Airfare from Sudbury lol, crab puffs.
Are you baffled with the BS yet? Me neither :loser:
Click to expand...

Hi kaRN According to this defense at the status hearing JB stated "I have not asked that any of our experts write any reports I think that is extra work"
By him saying this to me it means they are going to do a trial by ambush because they are using the experts memories. mo and mf
 
Thank you Gia. Good to see you on the board! That is very interesting about Dr. Lee. He is the one they chose to examine the trunk. Was there blood in there?

Do you know if it is a requirement for the experts from out of state to be licensed in the state the case is tried in?

I want to thank THEMIS for always helping here too!!!!Here he helped me understand why the pro bono work is unlikely and a risk for lawyers regarding their insurance.
[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4645510&postcount=47"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Legal Questions for Our VERIFIED Lawyers[/ame]

http://www.cobblawfirm.com/Rules_Discovery.htm
 
P1569 said:
Hi kaRN According to this defense at the status hearing JB stated "I have not asked that any of our experts write any reports I think that is extra work"
By him saying this to me it means they are going to do a trial by ambush because they are using the experts memories. mo and mf
Click to expand...
I don't think ANY expert would testify without providing a report first. That's not how they work. They look at the evidence and submit a report to the defense who will then chose to use it or not. Asking them NOT to provide a report just leaves them opoen to a lot of heavy-duty cross examination. I can here it now: "Did you report that this body was Cayle Anthony?" The answer to that would hve to be no if they never wrote a report. A report protects them. So Bozo is being a bigger fool than I thought possible. Do you remember telling me? That would be a report. HE doesn't want a report because if it's not favorable to his client, he doesn't want to use them, even if they are on his witness list. If they submit a report, then he can't change horses in midstream - something he continuously does. And why would he need both Spitzer and Reichs? Overlap of expertise imo
 
It is interesting to see that Dr. Spitz and Dr Kathy Reichs are FINALLY, officially added to the Defense Witness List as Experts - they were not on any other official Defense Witness List which was filed with the Clerk.

Interesting that Dr. Larry Kobilinsky is not on the final Expert witness list.
Kobi was on the Defense Witness List which was officially filed with the Clerk on Jan 22, 2009. Now he is NOT on the witness list.

And, Larry Daniel, Guardian Digital Forensics, Raleigh NC is not on the final Expert list which the media told us about (we have not seen the actual Amended Defense Witness List yet). Larry Daniel was on the Defense Witness List which was officially filed with the Clerk on Nov 20, 2008 - now he is not on the witness list.

I believe the Defense had to list every expert who "might" be called to testify at trial, but just because the expert is listed on the Defense Witness List, it does not guarantee that any expert will actually be called to testify at trial. Many witnesses are never called to testify.

It is good though, that the Defense MUST turn over to the State, by this Friday, all of the areas of expertise and what each Expert is expected to testify about. That makes the Defense committed to what they say about each Expert and does not allow the Defense to flip flop around and try to make an Expert fit into whatever category of testimony the Defense needs at time of trial.
 
Regarding Jeff Ashton letting th judge know because he wanted it on the record, what Baez had told him privately that the expert who tested the hairs would not be testifying, check out what Themis explained some time ago about an expert suddenly not being listed! This was after the post from our loyal AZ lawyer:
"I found it very interesting that Lee was supposedly working pro bono. Normally, when an expert seems to have suddenly stopped working on a case, it's because they haven't been paid. But if a pro bono expert stops working on the case, it's because they DISAGREE with your positions and have no incentive (i.e., money) to try to spin the facts to fit your case."

Very interesting!!!!


[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4645612&postcount=51"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Legal Questions for Our VERIFIED Lawyers[/ame]

http://www.cobblawfirm.com/Rules_Discovery.htm
 
ThinkTank said:
It is interesting to see that Dr. Spitz and Dr Kathy Reichs are FINALLY, officially added to the Defense Witness List as Experts - they were not on any other official Defense Witness List which was filed with the Clerk.

Interesting that Dr. Larry Kobilinsky is not on the final Expert witness list.
Kobi was on the Defense Witness List which was officially filed with the Clerk on Jan 22, 2009. Now he is NOT on the witness list.

And, Larry Daniel, Guardian Digital Forensics, Raleigh NC is not on the final Expert list which the media told us about (we have not seen the actual Amended Defense Witness List yet). Larry Daniel was on the Defense Witness List which was officially filed with the Clerk on Nov 20, 2008 - now he is not on the witness list.

I believe the Defense had to list every expert who "might" be called to testify at trial, but just because the expert is listed on the Defense Witness List, it does not guarantee that any expert will actually be called to testify at trial. Many witnesses are never called to testify.

It is good though, that the Defense MUST turn over to the State, by this Friday, all of the areas of expertise and what each Expert is expected to testify about. That makes the Defense committed to what they say about each Expert and does not allow the Defense to flip flop around and try to make an Expert fit into whatever category of testimony the Defense needs at time of trial.
Click to expand...

LOL..You read my mind regarding Lawrence Kobilinsky....I seem to recall him testifying at some hearing via telephone way back when..I also wonder why Michael Baden wasnt mentioned either?..Didnt he do some work on the remains?..Man oh man..this case has been going for so long, maybe I am getting confused??:waitasec:
 
LyndyLoo said:
LOL..You read my mind regarding Lawrence Kobilinsky....I seem to recall him testifying at some hearing via telephone way back when..I also wonder why Michael Baden wasnt mentioned either?..Didnt he do some work on the remains?..Man oh man..this case has been going for so long, maybe I am getting confused??:waitasec:
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Michael Baden has only commented on the defense for Fox News/Geraldo, to my knowledge he was never part of the defense team, just his wife.
 
LyndyLoo said:
LOL..You read my mind regarding Lawrence Kobilinsky....I seem to recall him testifying at some hearing via telephone way back when..I also wonder why Michael Baden wasnt mentioned either?..Didnt he do some work on the remains?..Man oh man..this case has been going for so long, maybe I am getting confused??:waitasec:
Click to expand...

I remember when NG had Kobi on her show several times and she really gave him a hard time about what she perceived as him trying to create testimony which would be helpful to the Defense.

I remember LKB's husband Michael B speaking on Geraldo about Caylee's hair evidence ... but I don't remember him actually doing anything in this case.
 
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