Deleted Voicemails?

[MysticJynx]

I remember that cowgirl statement. and in his testimony he could not remember what time of day he saw Teresa on Sunday. Also KH testified to her being at her grandparents house that afternoon for his birthday party, and Testifies to her coming over around 7ish to watch an episode of Extreme Makeover Home Edition with her younger sisters. She left a little after 10pm. I really would have started the investigation with as far back as Friday as to where had Teresa been and what was she doing those days.

It was TP her photography studio partner that called Teresa's mom to tell her that she thought it was weird her phone was full on that Thursday and hadn't seen her stop into the studio at all for a few days. My Question is did she stop at the studio earlier that day. I think the time line was important and seem to just be bunched up into a 1 and half hour time.

KK also objected the records of the voicemail being accessed with password and deleted. What did he say, If he knew that the defense was gonna use this he would have investigated. Judge W. asked him if he knew who made the calls and its clear they didn't even look into those deleted calls. They did not investigate what was outside the scope of Steven Avery. I believe KK got his way and they were not introduced to the jury.

 

[BigCityAccountant]

He called her a few times that day, at least 3 times. First 2 times after dialing *67 on his phone to obscure his phone number and then, at 4:35pm he did not hide his number.

Some have opined he was trying to make it look like she was still alive and no longer at his property during that last call, an alibi of sorts. I know nothing about whether he left a VM or didn't.

That was so totally my guess too.

 

[BigCityAccountant]

Nope, Cingular wireless techs/employees testified that if people got the "VM is full" message at one time and then called back and made it through to VM later, that VMs were deleted, but they did not testify that there was a way to see which VMs were deleted and who those VMs were left by.

I know computers can be traced back to an area, maybe a specific computer....can Cingular trace back where the computer was located that deleted her V/M? For example, the person who deleted them...were they located in Calumet County..were they located in Manitowoc County??

 

[BigCityAccountant]

I have two children in their 20's. One dated a girl for 3 years before they broke up. They occasionally keep in contact via text and FB I think. BUT if he went missing I would NOT immediately call her nor would she run over to our house and start opening his phone records.

I realize everyone has different relationships with their ex's but this just remains VERY odd to me. Also his big presence in the search effort.

I'm curious if others with kids of similar age find this plausible or ordinary.

I don't think this is unusually at all. I have a niece who's boyfriend broke up with her when he started college. They stayed good friends and to this day are still friends. I could absolutely see him be the first to look at her phone records to try to find her. He is a good man and he cares about my niece and her safety. She is getting married this year and I totally expect to see him at her wedding.

 

[BigCityAccountant]

Cingular would have a call log that was stored on their servers. They wouldn't be able to retrieve the VM messages that were deleted. Did anyone ask them if every phone call was logged on their servers? Not VMs, phone calls. The reason I ask is I worked for a cellular company and every number coming in and going out was logged *if* the phone was pinging a cell tower and if a seizure had occurred (i.e. had a connection).

If TH's phone had been turned off or if the battery was taken out then the phone would not be able to be connected. The carrier has all the details as that's how they know to count and then bill the subscriber for every minute. Those detailed call logs contain a lot of information -- not the ones a consumer gets, but there are more detailed logs that are produced for subpoenas.

But we do know that her cell phone pinged the tower closest to the Avery property....

 

[BigCityAccountant]

Does anyone know if they introduced Steven's Phone records, if so do you know where there is a copy of that evidence. I'm curious to know if his phone made that last call. I posted earlier that there is ways to Spoof a call. To use anyone's number and the caller ID on the phone will read the Spoofed number and the phone bill of the person they called will reflect the spoofed number. Were his records ever
compared to hers?

As I recall reading, there were no other phone calls recorded after Avery's.

 

[Tawny]

I know computers can be traced back to an area, maybe a specific computer....can Cingular trace back where the computer was located that deleted her V/M? For example, the person who deleted them...were they located in Calumet County..were they located in Manitowoc County??

Good question, I'm not sure, but I'd love to know!

As I recall reading, there were no other phone calls recorded after Avery's.

There were calls but they didn't go through because her phone was either off or destroyed.

 

[TheyDontSee]

I'll be really clear and say that I think there's a possibility that the ex-boyfriend wanted to come across as helpful/concerned, and no one should have reason to suspect him.

It's not uncommon the ex-boyfriend in any murder case like this is a top suspect, right ?

So if everyone goes into voicemail and sees no voicemails from him of a crazy nature, then that's gonna support the helpful/concerned guy persona.

A guy with nothing to hide. He clearly knows he deleted any questionable emails, so nothing anyone would connect to him.

As I said, this doesn't even require that he's a murderer. Just a guy who has been monitoring his ex-girlfriend and maybe said some things in a voicemail that he didn't want others to hear. maybe not even aggressive.

But if you are going to investigate a murder, I think you should be suspicious even though it's not a smoking gun for murder. -- just in case.


Is it just me who is suspicious of the origins of 2 deleted voicemails after a woman who was murdered had gone missing ?

YES! Thank you, Max. So I'm NOT the only one suspicious of the ex. His whole demeanor was off-putting to me. He seemed to nervous that I was nervous just watching him. Maybe HE was the mystery caller who TH was avoiding. (Can't they check her phone records to see if he was calling her constantly and she was never picking up??)
Maybe he threatened her (stupidly) on voiemail and then deleted them. He could have been stalking her.

I'd like more info on their relationship. As well as more info on this mysterious roommate of hers. What do we know about him???

And what's the deal with him "figuring out" her password being a combination of her sister's b-days? He knows their bdays? Was it written somewhere?

 

[TheyDontSee]

I realize everyone has different relationships with their ex's but this just remains VERY odd to me. Also his big presence in the search effort.

BINGO. Remember, a killer will often times try to insert himself in a search/investigation and I think that's what he was doing. And I've mentioned it twice already but I'll mention it again: Hilligoss was acting so NERVOUS that it made me jittery just watching him. I think a lot of people may have missed it because they were so focused on SA or LE... and c'mon, he's the concerned ex, right? Well...

I think he needs to be looked at a little closer.

I'm gonna have to re-watch the series...

 

[Sustained]

YES! Thank you, Max. So I'm NOT the only one suspicious of the ex. His whole demeanor was off-putting to me. He seemed to nervous that I was nervous just watching him. Maybe HE was the mystery caller who TH was avoiding. (Can't they check her phone records to see if he was calling her constantly and she was never picking up??)
Maybe he threatened her (stupidly) on voiemail and then deleted them. He could have been stalking her.

I'd like more info on their relationship. As well as more info on this mysterious roommate of hers. What do we know about him???

And what's the deal with him "figuring out" her password being a combination of her sister's b-days? He knows their bdays? Was it written somewhere?

They dated for 5 years or so, so he may have written them down to remember. I find it stranger that he dated TH for 5 years and had never met Pam Sturm, TH's cousin before the murder.

 

[TheyDontSee]

They dated for 5 years or so, so he may have written them down to remember. I find it stranger that he dated TH for 5 years and had never met Pam Sturm, TH's cousin before the murder.

Sure, I guess that's possible, though I would think most people dating (even 5+ years) wouldn't bother with birth dates of siblings. But then again TH did seem super close to her sisters... so, perhaps.
But yeah, not having ever met Pam until the search and then handing HER specifically the camera... hmmm...

 

[mommylicious]

I don't find it odd that he knew the birthdates if they dated that long. I knew my college bf's parents and sister's bdays because I was always part of the celebration. I'm more wondering if he already knew the password and made up the story to cover that he knew it. I use the same variation on a password for multiple things, it's possible she did, too. If he knew that, or knew her password for something else, it might not be as hard for him to "guess" what it was. I do, however, find it odd that that was one of his first thoughts to do. I don't know that I'd try to access my best friend's voicemails, etc if she went missing, I'd leave it for the police.

It is possible that he had nothing to do with her death but that he'd left a voicemail he didn't want getting out. He may have gone into CYA mode, explaining the VM access, nervousness, etc and still be totally innocent.

 

[mommylicious]

I wish we could put together a list of questions for the various players and actually have them provide answers (obviously we'd still have to judge the veracity for ourselves). Did the cousin think it was odd when he gave her the camera? Or had they had a conversation about "what do we do if....?" "take a picture," "but I don't have a camera.." I'd be interested in her impressions of the interactions (and what led them to search that area of the property first...)

Sorry for the OT. )

 

[Soulmagent]

According to MH from transprits on the first day of SA 's trial. Mike knew the cell password , Ryan and Scott were the ones who directed the search area's ,such as where the searchers would be going and according to Tom Pearce's testimony the voice mail was already full on Tuesday when he first tried calling Teresa.She was often on her phone and always responded to messages and he found the fact that her VM was full odd.

 

[Cymbaline]

No activity from her cell phone after 2:41pm on Oct 30, 2005.

That starts the timeline of her disappearance. 2.5 to 3 hours later SA is having a big ole bonfire in his fire pit, one that he keeps going for several hours, into the night.

BTW, an erased VM doesn't erase the call log at the provider. They would have a detailed log of every call made and received, every time a VM was accessed, deleted, forwarded, etc.

BBM

Are you sure about that date?

 

[MysticJynx]

No activity from her cell phone after 2:41pm on Oct 30, 2005.

That starts the timeline of her disappearance. 2.5 to 3 hours later SA is having a big ole bonfire in his fire pit, one that he keeps going for several hours, into the night.

BTW, an erased VM doesn't erase the call log at the provider. They would have a detailed log of every call made and received, every time a VM was accessed, deleted, forwarded, etc.

I'm fixing to post this also in the 3 phone calls thread where we have been discussing phone bills to. But since I see this I will first post it here. You could also check that other thread, seems like the PHONE RECORDS should be just one thread instead of so many, they get confusing and I am unsure where to post certain things. This is just the time line I have for her based on testimony and reports I have read.

Anyway, here it goes

Oct. 29
She had some shots she did not get to for CS/SS she tells them monday,
She had some wedding or something she had shot earlier in the day on Saturda,
she attends a party possibly in a cowgirl outfit, possibly in appleton or Green bay.


Oct 30

She attends a family gathering for Grandpa's bday at sometime during the day what time was this party?

SB, the roommate, states he saw her around 2pm they talked about the halloween parties they had been to over the weekend and she made no mention of plans for halloween on monday.
7-10pm she arrives at her Mother's residence to watch Extreme Makeover Home Edition with her sisters.

She leaves a little after 10pm


Oct 31
12:13am TH sends a fax to Auto Trader about CS/SS appointment reshoot.

11:04am when she picks up her voicemail

No listed calls that was in the evidence

11:27am Picks up her own vm again

11:31am Unknown Call, Possible call to Auto Trader AS? DP was on lunch

11:35am Unknown Call, Possible call to Auto T. AS. DP was on lunch

11:43am Makes call to B. Janda. She must not have had Fax from DP yet she asked for the address.

12:29pm Unknown call

12:39pm Called her voicemail

12:45pm Unknown call

12:51pm Outgoing SS call

1:52pm Unknown call

2:12pm Outgoing GZ Call

2:13pm Called Her Voicemail

2:24pm *67 private call from SA

2:27pm Incoming Call from DP

2:41pm Unknown call, last to pick up cell tower ping, and CFNA feature is set on.

4:35pm NO longer pinging any towers last call of the day.

Not one of her friends calls her from 2:41pm to sometime the next day 11/1/05. the first call reflected

on this exhibit 361 is 9:49am this call was 1 minute and 26 seconds, wonder what this message was?

Could this have been the Alibi call the next morning?

Who were these calls at 11:31am, 11:35am, 12:29pm, 12:45pm, 1:52pm, 2:41pm. If we assume on of the

11:30am calls were back to Auto Trader to leave that message for DP with AS possibly the longer call at

11:31am. And they did have an unknown caller in the first bill RH supplied Det. MW. We have a call once an hour or so.

Who was this mysterious caller that suddenly stopped after the CFNA. How did this unknown caller know to stop calling her once an hour?

 

[whonos]

Does anyone know if they introduced Steven's Phone records, if so do you know where there is a copy of that evidence. I'm curious to know if his phone made that last call. I posted earlier that there is ways to Spoof a call. To use anyone's number and the caller ID on the phone will read the Spoofed number and the phone bill of the person they called will reflect the spoofed number. Were his records ever
compared to hers?

I don't think anyone picked up on this but, as I understand it, the spoofed number will also show up on phone records, instead of the true number. Also, according to Wikipedia, there is a " specialized digital connection to the telephone company, called an ISDN PRI circuit. Collection agencies, law-enforcement officials, and private investigators have used the practice, with varying degrees of legality", that was available even before caller id spoof. If the phone company records the spoof or another number as a result of the ISDN PRI circuit, then it makes the calls that were supposedly from Steven, useless to discuss. Did anyone ever ask him about those calls and the *67 use?

 

[whonos]

BINGO. Remember, a killer will often times try to insert himself in a search/investigation and I think that's what he was doing. And I've mentioned it twice already but I'll mention it again: Hilligoss was acting so NERVOUS that it made me jittery just watching him. I think a lot of people may have missed it because they were so focused on SA or LE... and c'mon, he's the concerned ex, right? Well...

I think he needs to be looked at a little closer.


I'm gonna have to re-watch the series...

If you google the boyfriend's name and add the word "scratches", there are photos posted on other sites taken from stills on the documentary, when he was leading the search. I went back to the documentary and looked for myself and they are definitely there and more like 2 wide ones.
There have been cases like this that the perpetrator did not hide the scratches, which seems really dumb, but these people think they are so smart, they become arrogant thinking they cannot be caught.

He seemed to have an attitude on the stand, kind of laughing about figuring out her password, that alerted me to something other than business as usual. I do not know why he has not been looked at more carefully. At least he should have been asked to verify his whereabouts on that day.

 

[missy1974]

The video in the documentary.... I wonder where it came from? I have looked online and can't find the original (not in documentary) version.

On the topic of him figuring out the pswd/username/whatever. Someone posted on the family fb page that they have worked for At&T(cingular was bought by them) for years... at one point RH said he had to register.... to register, you need to physically have the cell phone because it would send a verification code. He said other things too... like to hit the "forgot password", he would have to have the cell phone, or if it had an email associated with it, access to the email (could be easy if you are on her computer, not everyone enters a pswd, depending on the email) He also said if anyone did request a change of pswd or registration, it would be in the logs, even now. It was interesting, and I never thought about him having to have cell phone (to get the code to enter) to register the account.

 

[MysticJynx]

I don't think anyone picked up on this but, as I understand it, the spoofed number will also show up on phone records, instead of the true number. Also, according to Wikipedia, there is a " specialized digital connection to the telephone company, called an ISDN PRI circuit. Collection agencies, law-enforcement officials, and private investigators have used the practice, with varying degrees of legality", that was available even before caller id spoof. If the phone company records the spoof or another number as a result of the ISDN PRI circuit, then it makes the calls that were supposedly from Steven, useless to discuss. Did anyone ever ask him about those calls and the *67 use?

Ended up seeing a copy of his phone bill. It is posted on one of these threads. But the spoof number was not something that I believe happened now. He clearly called her number on his phone bill. And from what I understand it would show up on her bill, but if it was spoofed it would not show up on SA's. And it does.