GUILTY Denmark - Kim Wall, 30, Copenhagen, 10 Aug 2017

[SATA]

The article n NZZ says that someone in Barcelona bought him a business class ticket. He was bragging about it to Deidre. Of course it may be untrue, but if anyone knows a way to verify whether or not someone was on a flight from Barcelona to Copenhagen on 14 June 2017, I would be very grateful, I don't know how..

Police will know how.
I am sure they are looking into this.

If there is anything in this, we will know eventually.

BTW, I hope that Deirdre K is all right. She has some heavy stuff to work through in her mind.

 

[Logical_Inference]

The international interest in criminal proceedings concerning the death of Swedish journalist Kim Walls is enormous.

Journalists from 12 different countries want to attend the prosecution's case against Peter Madsen, informs the Copenhagen City Council.

For the case, which will begin in the coming week, there is room for about 95 journalists in total.

In the courtroom itself there is limited space, and therefore the district court has set up a special TV and listening room from which the majority of the registered press can attend the process.

More than 75 journalists have signed up to get a seat in this room. Additionally, approximately 20 journalists will be placed in the courtroom.

In the district court, Press Contact Judge Jens Stausbøll wishes not to tell which countries the many press people come from.

47-year-old Peter Madsen is accused of mistreating and killing Kim Wall on the submarine "Nautilus" the night of August 11 last year.

According to the prosecutor, he brought a saw, tapered screwdrivers, strips, straps and other remedies before 10 August in the evening sailed out to Øresund with his guest.

Peter Madsen denies guilty of killing. On the other hand, he acknowledged that he dismembered the body of the woman and threw the body-parts in the water. She died as a result of an accident on the submarine, he has previously explained.

On the other hand, the prosecutor's office requires him to be sentenced for murder. Prosecutor wants prison for life on the grounds that the crime was planned in advance and that it was sexually motivated.

The case is scheduled to last for 12 hearings. Over 30 witnesses will be questioned.

https://ekstrabladet.dk/112/hele-verden-klar-til-peter-madsen-drama/7059079 (in danish - I couldnt translate it as usual somehow)

 

[Apelsin]

Police will know how.
I am sure they are looking into this.

If there is anything in this, we will know eventually.

BTW, I hope that Deirdre K is all right. She has some heavy stuff to work through in her mind.

I totally agree, I hope she has friends to talk to. I really feel for all of the people who were close to him and who could not have understood that he was about to do this.

 

[Shiressleuth]

I have been catching up and the Wired article by a friend was excellent I thought. It is not unusual for journalists to contact inmates awaiting trial or even awaiting indictment. The fact that this journalist was a friend of Kim makes it more understandable she wants answers. Anything she gets will go to police and there was obviously a lot she did not publish.

There is a WS thread for Sydney Loofe and her alleged killer is constantly calling the media from jail and has given gruesome details saying "charge me" so I don't fully understand the objections to this article. In the UK it is unusual for journalists to contact persons on remand and it may even be considered sub judice to publish anything so maybe it is similar in Denmark?

Anything that may uncover a motive is interesting to me. I don't think it is enough to say "oh he is mad". If he did have a contract for a "snuff film" could that have been the motive? $2.5 million is a big motive for someone needing money so badly. He was stupid to believe no one would question Kim's disappearance. If Deedee had accepted, as she said maybe no one would have noticed for weeks.

 

[Logical_Inference]

Ok, Let me ask you this then: What answer did you expect??

First, he did not admit to killing her.
He did admit to dismembering her though.

Second, would an answer like "Oh i just needed some self-pleasure" be satisfying?
or "Oh I was about to make a few million bucks, so I couldnt resist"

What kind of answer would satisfy you and others?
In my opinion you dont ask why unless you need some kind of excuse for the person.
Nothing can excuse him for what he did. Not even if he said "Oh I was so in love with her but she didnt want me so I had to kill her", which I doubt anyone would believe anyway.

I dont want to be rude or anything here, but I believe there are cases where it is natural to ask a why, and there is this case where you actually somehow know why. Its all in the details.

 

[chinacat67]

Self delete... Tapatalk prob!

 

[chinacat67]

Self delete... Tapatalk prob!

I think we ought to move on from our
Opinions about article and agree to disagree.

We should stick to the facts as we are close to getting off track and/or a mod showing up and telling us this same thing... scroll by if you disagree, is what they will say....is what they always say in a situation about Opinions.

We're here for Kim and the trial, facts in the article are helpful to that end, opinions about the article are not, IMO.

[emoji1280]️

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

 

[ZaZara]

Ok, Let me ask you this then: What answer did you expect??

First, he did not admit to killing her.
He did admit to dismembering her though.

Second, would an answer like "Oh i just needed some self-pleasure" be satisfying?
or "Oh I was about to make a few million bucks, so I couldnt resist"

What kind of answer would satisfy you and others?
In my opinion you dont ask why unless you need some kind of excuse for the person.
Nothing can excuse him for what he did. Not even if he said "Oh I was so in love with her but she didnt want me so I had to kill her", which I doubt anyone would believe anyway.

I dont want to be rude or anything here, but I believe there are cases where it is natural to ask a why, and there is this case where you actually somehow know why. Its all in the details.

Hi Logical_Inference, I follow a case in Germany in the press (it does not have a thread here on WS) about the trial of a man who killed a young woman in a horrible way. Been reading through the testimonies of psychiatrists, psychologists, social workers and a youth worker ~ who concluded that the man was not the minor that he claimed to be. (Other tests suggest the same.)
These experts all bring to light a tiny piece of the puzzle. No one got the answer as to why he did this, in fact no one was able to establish a relationship with the accused in which this question might have been approached. And these are the professionals, they have the education and the training.

If all it would take was a letter from a friend, there would be no need for them. I wonder how Kim's friend could have missed this point (among others), and I assume that this has to do with grief, that she lost her sense of perspective due to shock.

I fear that once he is convicted, PM will continue to attract women for all the wrong reasons.

 

[Logical_Inference]

Hi Logical_Inference, I follow a case in Germany in the press (it does not have a thread here on WS) about the trial of a man who killed a young woman in a horrible way. Been reading through the testimonies of psychiatrists, psychologists, social workers and a youth worker ~ who concluded that the man was not the minor that he claimed to be. (Other tests suggest the same.)
These experts all bring to light a tiny piece of the puzzle. No one got the answer as to why he did this, in fact no one was able to establish a relationship with the accused in which this question might have been approached. And these are the professionals, they have the education and the training.

Probably that guy dont even know himself why he did it, maybe.

If all it would take was a letter from a friend, there would be no need for them. I wonder how Kim's friend could have missed this point (among others), and I assume that this has to do with grief, that she lost her sense of perspective due to shock.

Yeah, maybe.

I fear that once he is convicted, PM will continue to attract women for all the wrong reasons.

Yeah. We can see how it works out for Peter Lundin. They swarm around him. Some women think they are able to control dangerous men, and usually they have to learn the hard way that they can't.

 

[Shiressleuth]

Ok, Let me ask you this then: What answer did you expect??

First, he did not admit to killing her.
He did admit to dismembering her though.

Second, would an answer like "Oh i just needed some self-pleasure" be satisfying?
or "Oh I was about to make a few million bucks, so I couldnt resist"

What kind of answer would satisfy you and others?
In my opinion you dont ask why unless you need some kind of excuse for the person.
Nothing can excuse him for what he did. Not even if he said "Oh I was so in love with her but she didnt want me so I had to kill her", which I doubt anyone would believe anyway.

I dont want to be rude or anything here, but I believe there are cases where it is natural to ask a why, and there is this case where you actually somehow know why. Its all in the details.

I am guessing you are replying to me?
Well if he continues with his accident excuse, someone may believe him and he may get away with manslaughter. So if pre meditation can be proved then it is definitely murder. And the law still states innocent till proven guilty or is that not the same in Denmark?

So it is not about satisfaction but proof IMO. Why don't you want anyone looking into and reporting about it? What would satisfy you? Not talking about it at all? I'm not being rude either but I truly would like to know.

 

[Apelsin]

Ok, Let me ask you this then: What answer did you expect??

First, he did not admit to killing her.
He did admit to dismembering her though.

Second, would an answer like "Oh i just needed some self-pleasure" be satisfying?
or "Oh I was about to make a few million bucks, so I couldnt resist"

What kind of answer would satisfy you and others?
In my opinion you dont ask why unless you need some kind of excuse for the person.
Nothing can excuse him for what he did. Not even if he said "Oh I was so in love with her but she didnt want me so I had to kill her", which I doubt anyone would believe anyway.

I dont want to be rude or anything here, but I believe there are cases where it is natural to ask a why, and there is this case where you actually somehow know why. Its all in the details.

Understanding why someone does someone does someone does something isn't the same as excusing someones behaviour. Why would it be? The murder of Kim Wall is unusual in that no one really knows why he did it, aside from Madsen himself. Most crimes have motive, and it is one of the remaining questions in this case. Searching for answers, whether they are external (financial or other motive) or internal (insanity, rage, emotion) does not benefit Madsen is any way, rather it can benefit others by better understanding criminal behaviour. Just for you information, Kim Walls mother shared May Jeongs article on her facebook page with the captation "Written by one of Kim's best friends. Read!". Can we lay this to rest now? This is a websleuths, where we seek the truth about crime right?

 

[ZaZara]

I am guessing you are replying to me?
Well if he continues with his accident excuse, someone may believe him and he may get away with manslaughter. So if pre meditation can be proved then it is definitely murder. And the law still states innocent till proven guilty or is that not the same in Denmark?

So it is not about satisfaction but proof IMO. Why don't you want anyone looking into and reporting about it? What would satisfy you? Not talking about it at all? I'm not being rude either but I truly would like to know.

Take one look at the evidence about the stabbings and the indictment and you know that this was never a case about an accident.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/23/world/europe/peter-madsen-kim-wall.html

In the indictment, however, prosecutors say he brought a “saw, sharpened screwdrivers, straps, strips and pipes” to the submarine before the trip, arguing that these were part of a plan to kill Ms. Wall. He “abused her by hitting her, stabbed and cut her and he killed her after which he dismembered her body,” the indictment said.

The straps and pipes were tied to her torso and limbs to weight them down after he threw them overboard. The police investigation has not been able to establish the exact cause of death, but say that she was either strangled or had her throat cut.

The police said earlier that Ms. Wall had been stabbed repeatedly, including in her genitals, but had not previously said they believed that to have happened before her death.

"What happened?" :dunno: :dunno:

 

[Shiressleuth]

Take one look at the evidence about the stabbings and the indictment and you know that this was never a case about an accident.





"What happened?" :dunno: :dunno:

Your post seems to suggest they are not sure what killed her and the stabbings were post mortem possibly.

We really will need to wait for all the evidence at the trial to see what exactly happened.

 

[Logical_Inference]

Your post seems to suggest they are not sure what killed her and the stabbings were post mortem possibly.

We really will need to wait for all the evidence at the trial to see what exactly happened.

The Police did actually say on a pressconference in January, that they now believe that the stabs was made when she was alive, according to this article:
https://translate.google.com/transla...wall/6999605

I did write a post on it earlier, post nr. #657

 

[Satchie]

I don't mind people disagreeing about this, but just wanted to clarify, in the Wired article, the journalist wrote to Madsen stating "my wish that he would tell me what happened".

Now maybe she meant 'why', both in the specific sense of why did you do this, or in the existential sense of why did such a bad thing happen to such a lovely person. But the words she chose to print in the article are "what happened", which I interpret as wanting an account from the killer of the sequence of events: eg, first I did this, then I did that, then she did this.

And my reaction is a big fat yuck!

 

[Moll]

I am guessing you are replying to me?
Well if he continues with his accident excuse, someone may believe him and he may get away with manslaughter. So if pre meditation can be proved then it is definitely murder. And the law still states innocent till proven guilty or is that not the same in Denmark?



So it is not about satisfaction but proof IMO. Why don't you want anyone looking into and reporting about it? What would satisfy you? Not talking about it at all? I'm not being rude either but I truly would like to know.

The investigating police in Denmark have so far shown themselves to be very competent indeed so I don't think you need worry that without articles being published they will believe what Peter Madsen says about Kim Wall's death being an accident.

 

[Shiressleuth]

The investigating police in Denmark have so far shown themselves to be very competent indeed so I don't think you need worry that without articles being published they will believe what Peter Madsen says about Kim Wall's death being an accident.

It doesn't matter what the police believe but what one person ( the judge in this instance) believes based on the evidence produced at trial. The replies to the journalist will be part of that evidence I am guessing as well. Has there been a post mortem published?

Also, if there is any truth to this payment for a snuff film, there should be more investigations/charges for others involved as well. What do posters think about that possible aspect to this crime? Did PM believe he could finance another project?

 

[Shiressleuth]

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/kim-wall-m...ine-murder-plot-days-before-her-death-1662154

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5413767/Peter-Madsen-murder-plan-ready-submarine.html

Not sure if these articles have been posted.

 

[Moll]

It doesn't matter what the police believe but what one person ( the judge in this instance) believes based on the evidence produced at trial. The replies to the journalist will be part of that evidence I am guessing as well. Has there been a post mortem published?

Also, if there is any truth to this payment for a snuff film, there should be more investigations/charges for others involved as well. What do posters think about that possible aspect to this crime? Did PM believe he could finance another project?

I don't know if it's one judge, or a panel of judges (Danish members may be able to tell us) who will assess the evidence. Of course it matters what the police present to them. I used the word 'believe' because you earlier spoke of people believing Madsen if not for the evidence published in Kim's friend's article.

We've had a lot of information and links posted on here by Danish members (the more detailed basis for articles like the one you linked to in the Daily Mail). You now come on sounding as if you have a special interest and insight when you don't appear to have read all the previous posts.

 

[Shiressleuth]

I don't know if it's one judge, or a panel of judges (Danish members may be able to tell us) who will assess the evidence. Of course it matters what the police present to them. I used the word 'believe' because you earlier spoke of people believing Madsen if not for the evidence published in Kim's friend's article.

We've had a lot of information and links posted on here by Danish members (the more detailed basis for articles like the one you linked to in the Daily Mail). You now come on sounding as if you have a special interest and insight when you don't appear to have read all the previous posts.

Well I have read them all AFAIK and I understood it will be one judge. Which do you think I have missed and I will re-read?

He was initially charged with negligent manslaughter with particularly aggravating circumstances which was changed to murder after the autopsy IIRC.

I have read a few posters moaning about the translations so thought the English articles would help. It also sounds like there will be a lot of international interests reporting on the trial.

I don't know whether your last sentence is a compliment or complaint TBH but will take it as a compliment TY.