Desiree says Terri had “Extreme hatred for Kyron"

[Adrienne37]

To Aedrys, Jo, Stmarysmead, and Chablis, if I could, I would have hit the thanks button a million times on your posts. You all provide such great insight and I always look forward to reading your posts.

 

[Aedrys]

Then, if you really, really want to look at these emails, she KNEW they would be read! She for sure has seen enough CSI and all these sorts of shows, its like the ultimate screw you to Kaine and Desiree. And whats worse is, we KNOW Terri knows how to file for divorce, shes on her third marriage! She knew exactly how do leave without killing anyone or causing havoc.

Shes just cold and these emails are really important into looking at what kind of person she really is. Why one of her sons fathers isnt in court trying to get that kid away from her and stopping the child support payments is seriously beyond me.

The last time one of them complained, his child suppport payments were increased. I think they're afraid of what she is capable of. No one seems to want to stand up to Terri except for Kaine and Desiree. That says a lot to me. It's easy to see how she could hate a child when she has everyone else afraid of what she is capable of, saying nice things in the media so that Terri won't get any sort of revenge on them. Dede was going way overboard doing that, and I don't blame her if Terri is as bad as I think she is. They probably aren't saying nice things behind closed doors, though.

To me, a person that doesn't worry about sending texts and emails is a person who thinks that they control the situation and nothing bad will happen to them. Obviously Terri seriously miscalculated her friends when Kyron went missing. People will do a lot of things for other people, but not go to jail for a missing and probably dead child. Terri finally went too far this time, yet still expected that no one would tattle on her or say anything bad about her to the police. What kind of hold did she think she had over her friends to think they'd protect her when a missing/dead child is involved? Seems her immediate family are the only ones keeping her safe now. I feel so sorry for J to have to be in the middle of all this just to make his mother's reputation better. I bet he and her parents get a lot of anger thrown at them. It must be a miserable house to live in.

That's what sells it for me, all of the anger I see in her. There is deepseated anger and hatred in that woman, and woe to anyone that gets in her way. The few times she's been out in the media, there's nothing but solid anger in her eyes and facial expressions. No remorse, no fear, no sadness, no resolve to get through this, no kindness or empathy shown to anyone, just lots and lots of anger there. She can't even smile if she wants to it seems like. She's just too angry for that. I even feel for her lawyers too. I have the feeling she spends a lot of time venting that anger at them and telling them how to do their job. I think there are a lot of arguments and this case (which isn't a criminal case yet, just a divorce case) is not going how they, the ones with experience and know how, think it should be going. They have to know that if the divorce case is going so badly, the criminal case is probably going to be worse. I wouldn't be surprised to see them drop her as a client at some point.

 

[miabellamoure]

I would imagine the same reason she lost custody of Kyron: she was extremely ill with kidney failure, had to go to Canada for treatment and was not physically capable of taking care of her children for a lengthy period of time due to her illness.

Very respectfully I would like to add that I think we should be careful when we use the word "lost" as it implies as in "taken away".

So far, that is not what we have seen reported anywhere about Desiree and her two boys as far as custody.

As you said, this mother was "extremely ill" and needed to rely on her children's fathers to step up to the plate during a time when she could not.

 

[wvjules]

If TH did hate, and abuse (as some have alledged) Kyron then why did she have him call his mom when he was upset?

Taken from the Today Show transcript:

Desiree: Kaine told me it was not an option on several occasions, and it was a point of contention with us.

He was exhibiting some problems in school and he was expressing a lot of sadness and upset at the situation, and Kyron on many occasions told me he wanted to come live with me, and on a couple of different occasions Terri had called me specifically so that I could talk to Kyron because he was so upset, and Terri personally wanted me to take Kyron.

I see that as something a caring SM would do, not an abusive, cold-hearted, stepmom as TH has been portrayed to be. Kyron was upset. He was allowed to call his mother to be soothed. Why on earth would TH allow that if she was the reason he was upset?

 

[Chablis]

If TH did hate, and abuse (as some have alledged) Kyron then why did she have him call his mom when he was upset?

Taken from the Today Show transcript:



I see that as something a caring SM would do, not an abusive, cold-hearted, stepmom as TH has been portrayed to be. Kyron was upset. He was allowed to call his mother to be soothed. Why on earth would TH allow that if she was the reason he was upset?

Because she was really trying to get Kyron out of the house before she snapped, I think she was crying out for help.

 

[wvjules]

Because she was really trying to get Kyron out of the house before she snapped, I think she was crying out for help.

Of course, it couldn't be because she actually cared for the kid.

 

[Chablis]

Of course, it couldn't be because she actually cared for the kid.

I do think she cared, I think she tried to get Kyron to go live with his mom, I dont think she wanted him around. Maybe it had to do with caring, maybe it didn't, all I know is that there are emails where Terri says she hates Kyron, and hes missing now, and it shows she tried to get Kyron back to his mom, it seems Kaine probably didn't want that, and maybe that made Terri very angry. I think she snapped.

 

[chasing.halos]

I see it totally different. Just MOO, but I feel like everything Terri does has to benefit her in some way. It's all about Terri and no one else. I don't feel that she had Ky call Desiree to "soothe" him. If she hated Kyron and wanted him out of the house, what a perfect opportunity to show Desiree how much of a "pain" Ky was being, and that he was miserable without his mama, and thus, he should go live with his mama.

 

[cluciano63]

Or maybe Desiree was the only one who could soothe Kyron when he was upset...

 

[miabellamoure]

I see it totally different. Just MOO, but I feel like everything Terri does has to benefit her in some way. It's all about Terri and no one else. I don't feel that she had Ky call Desiree to "soothe" him. If she hated Kyron and wanted him out of the house, what a perfect opportunity to show Desiree how much of a "pain" Ky was being, and that he was miserable without his mama, and thus, he should go live with his mama.

I have said this before and I will say it again (in more detail)...

I think the scenario of the phone call Desiree speaks about with Kyron & Terri may have gone something like this:

TH: I warned you Kyron if you didn't do xy&z at school today, I was going to call your Mom...Do you want me to call her?
Do you? (Kyron cries...)
That's it Kyron, now I'm going to call your Mom! (Kyron scared of disappointing his Mom cries more...)

Terri dials Desiree's number and puts a crying Kyron on the phone...and very likely from Desiree's comments about this call, Terri ends the call with something like, maybe we need to rethink the custody arrangement and have Kyron live with you.

 

[1Chump]

"I'm just not comfortable with aggregating all of the allegations and coming out with certainty."

How can any of us have certainty? We are on a discussion Board, dealing with a limited amount of information.

Even a jury presented with both sides can never really have "certainty" IMO...there are dueling experts and "facts" the jury is not allowed to know when they make their decision.

I have no certainty of Terri's guilt. I simply refuse to negate or ignore everything we have learned to date as if it is of no import at all...in order to NOT suspect Teri of hurting Kyron.

I feel no obligation to argue in defense of Terri by denyiong what we do know is of consequence. LE said there was a Murder For Hire plot. No one has said it is now discredited. So why should I give Terri that benefit? The same with everything else. Why presume nothing that we learn about her matters?

Terri has top-notch lawyers, being funded by SOME ANONYMOUS SOURCE (isn't that lucky?) It is their job to protect her rights and refute whatever they can as it enters the public domain. I am happy to let them assume that responsibility. I don't find my thoughts turning to worry and fear for Terri. When that happens...I'm thinking of that little guy who has been gone for so long.

And if some feel a Mother who writes terrible things about her child can completely suppress that and never, ever show that hatred, or disdain, or repulsion to the child...well, that is one point of view. IMO, no one has such amazing self control. Pulling away when a child tries to hug you, flinching at his touch, stifling your disgust for him, repressing a real desire to hurt him...I think that seeps through. A child that lives with THAT...feels it. It's a constant battering in its own way. To be not just unloved...but despised. At SEVEN years old.

What must that been like for Kyron, day after day.

For THAT alone, I am happy to leave Terri's defense and cheerleading to her lawyers.

The pile that points to her guilt is getting higher. If she is not guilty...maybe this is a cosmic payback for the way that little boy had to try to endure under her power every day. Knowing that she is somewhere... waiting...watching the evidence pile grow....fearing and feeling all the negativity...just as little Kyron musty have feared and felt her hatred...well. I can be patient knowing that.

As Kaine said...be patient. I believe LE is going to make sure this case is a tight as it can be. For Kyron....who "saw it all."

BBM....

It is not Teri's attorneys job to refute anything publically. In fact, legally, they would be risking their license to practice law if they did respond publically.

Oregon Code of Professional Ethics, Rule 3.6 Trial Publicity

(a) A lawyer who is participating or has participated in the investigation or litigation of a matter shall not make an extrajudicial statement that the lawyer knows or reasonably should know will be disseminated by means of public communication and will have a substantial likelihood of materially prejudicing an adjudicative proceeding in the matter.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/ethics/or/code/OR_CODE.HTM#7-10

I think there is a difference between defending Teri and the way we look at allegations. Allegations may be interesting to discuss but they are not evidence to finding Kyron or convict the guilty person.

 

[miabellamoure]

"I'm just not comfortable with aggregating all of the allegations and coming out with certainty."

How can any of us have certainty? We are on a discussion Board, dealing with a limited amount of information.

Even a jury presented with both sides can never really have "certainty" IMO...there are dueling experts and "facts" the jury is not allowed to know when they make their decision.

I have no certainty of Terri's guilt. I simply refuse to negate or ignore everything we have learned to date as if it is of no import at all...in order to NOT suspect Teri of hurting Kyron.

I feel no obligation to argue in defense of Terri by denying what we do know is of consequence. LE said there was a Murder For Hire plot. No one has said it is now discredited. So why should I give Terri that benefit? The same with everything else. Why presume nothing that we learn about her matters?

Terri has top-notch lawyers, being funded by SOME ANONYMOUS SOURCE (isn't that lucky?) It is their job to protect her rights and refute whatever they can as it enters the public domain. I am happy to let them assume that responsibility. I don't find my thoughts turning to worry and fear for Terri. When that happens...I'm thinking of that little guy who has been gone for so long.

And if some feel a Mother who writes terrible things about her child can completely suppress that and never, ever show that hatred, or disdain, or repulsion to the child...well, that is one point of view. IMO, no one has such amazing self control. Pulling away when a child tries to hug you, flinching at his touch, stifling your disgust for him, repressing a real desire to hurt him...I think that seeps through. A child that lives with THAT...feels it. It's a constant battering in its own way. To be not just unloved...but despised. At SEVEN years old.

What must that been like for Kyron, day after day.

For THAT alone, I am happy to leave Terri's defense and cheerleading to her lawyers.

The pile that points to her guilt is getting higher. If she is not guilty...maybe this is a cosmic payback for the way that little boy had to try to endure under her power every day. Knowing that she is somewhere... waiting...watching the evidence pile grow....fearing and feeling all the negativity...just as little Kyron musty have feared and felt her hatred...well. I can be patient knowing that.

As Kaine said...be patient. I believe LE is going to make sure this case is a tight as it can be. For Kyron....who "saw it all."

BBM....

It is not Teri's attorneys job to refute anything publically. In fact, legally, they would be risking their license to practice law if they did respond publically.

Oregon Code of Professional Ethics, Rule 3.6 Trial Publicity

(a) A lawyer who is participating or has participated in the investigation or litigation of a matter shall not make an extrajudicial statement that the lawyer knows or reasonably should know will be disseminated by means of public communication and will have a substantial likelihood of materially prejudicing an adjudicative proceeding in the matter.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/ethics/or/code/OR_CODE.HTM#7-10

I think there is a difference between defending Teri and the way we look at allegations. Allegations may be interesting to discuss but they are not evidence to finding Kyron or convict the guilty person.

bbm

Respectfully, I do not believe stmarysmead post implied or stated that Terri's attorneys should refute any accusations against their client "publically".

How many times tho' have we heard from attorney's who hold press conferences proclaiming their clients innocence yet...nothing from Terri's attorney's so far.

 

[Aedrys]

If TH did hate, and abuse (as some have alledged) Kyron then why did she have him call his mom when he was upset?

Taken from the Today Show transcript:



I see that as something a caring SM would do, not an abusive, cold-hearted, stepmom as TH has been portrayed to be. Kyron was upset. He was allowed to call his mother to be soothed. Why on earth would TH allow that if she was the reason he was upset?

Since I am in a stepfamily right now, I know from experience that not all stepfamily situations are happy and ideal where everyone gets along. My husband's Aunt (his daughter's mother figure since her mom left when she was five) almost never calls him when things are good. Most of the time when she calls, it's to have him talk to my stepdaughter when she's being bad, or to complain about something with my stepdaughter, to ask my husband for money for my stepdaughter, or to ask him to do something for her or his grandmother or mother. There are times she will call because my stepdaughter won't take no as an answer from her, so daddy has to tell her no over the phone no matter how much she whines and cries. Things got so bad at one point, the Aunt did threaten to have my stepdaughter live her with her dad, even telling him that if things didn't improve, she was sending the girl over to live with us instead.

Of course, this would go away in a matter of days and my stepdaughter never has come to live us, but my point is, the Aunt rarely calls to have a nice conversation with my husband. She mostly calls when there's a problem she can't or won't deal with, and so my husband has to be the one that deals with it. If there is a pleasant call, it's because my stepdaughter has done something to make them both angry and upset, and they are commiserating over it, or when he gets back from trips to talk to her because he's been gone and my stepdaughter has anxiety about people leaving her. Don't get me wrong, they do get along in person, but they are not the type to call each other and have nice conversations on the phone on a regular basis. And these are the main parents of my stepdaughter. I have to vent to my husband, never to the Aunt, and even then he gets onto me for not having enough patience. Being a stepmother is very hard for me sometimes.

My point is, this was not a pleasant stepmother to mother call. It was a worn out, can't take it anymore stepmother who wanted that kid gone, and thought the mom hearing over the phone how upset the kid was would convince mom to take him. I bet she called Desiree more than once about Kyron, about how he won't listen, won't do what she says, and Desiree had to tell him to mind Terri. I think Terri got to a breaking point, and finally asked Desiree to take custody and that's why that one call stood out to Desiree since Terri had never asked her that before.

It's a rare stepfamily situation that the stepmother and mother call each other and have pleasant conversations. More often than not, unfortunately, it's one calling to complain about the other's kid. Terri and Desiree don't strike me as ever being friends, more Desiree tolerating Terri for the sake of Kyron, or so she thought. I bet now she wishes she hadn't tolerated Terri for so long. I just don't think this situation is as ideal as Terri wants people to believe it was. And if she was such a caring stepmother, she'd out there looking for this lost child, or heck, Kyron wouldn't be lost at all.

 

[Aedrys]

bbm

Respectfully, I do not believe stmarysmead post implied or stated that Terri's attorneys should refute any accusations against their client "publically".

How many times tho' have we heard from attorney's who hold press conferences proclaiming their clients innocence yet...nothing from Terri's attorney's so far.

Not only that, but they've hardly refuted anything in a court of law either. If they want to win this divorce, they're hardly going to do that without cooperation from their client to the court, or refuting what Kaine is saying about her in court. They've done none of that so far. I would think at least they'd be refuting things in court to try to get her custody of baby K.

I do also wonder, if they never refute anything in the divorce case, can that be used against Terri later in the criminal case?

 

[kappy50]

If TH did hate, and abuse (as some have alledged) Kyron then why did she have him call his mom when he was upset?

Taken from the Today Show transcript:



I see that as something a caring SM would do, not an abusive, cold-hearted, stepmom as TH has been portrayed to be. Kyron was upset. He was allowed to call his mother to be soothed. Why on earth would TH allow that if she was the reason he was upset?

There is no negativity in Desiree's statement here about TH. Desiree's never held back her feelings in times past about TH. If she felt that way at the time of the statement, then she should have said so and didn't.

 

[ami]

If TH did hate, and abuse (as some have alledged) Kyron then why did she have him call his mom when he was upset?

Taken from the Today Show transcript:



I see that as something a caring SM would do, not an abusive, cold-hearted, stepmom as TH has been portrayed to be. Kyron was upset. He was allowed to call his mother to be soothed. Why on earth would TH allow that if she was the reason he was upset?

I think Terri didn't want Kyron living there. IMO, she probably never anticipated a lifetime of being Kyron's full time mother, as when she met Kaine and they started their relationship, Desiree had primary custody.

Terri made it clear in her email that she felt she was forced to not work so she could be a stay at home mom for Kyron, blowing through all her savings to do so because "his natural mom wouldn't". She was resentful of Kyron and Desiree and Kaine, that was clear in her own words. IMO, Terri probably thought when Desiree became healthy enough to care for Kyron again, she would. But Kaine wouldn't give up his child, so there she was.

She had no money, and in her own words the reason she had no money was because of Kyron whose presence as a baby forced her to stay home, Desiree who "wouldn't" stay home with Kyron, and Kaine who made her contribute financially to her household. She blamed all 3 of them for her lack of money - those are words written by her that we've been allowed to read.

So with that resentment inside her, I wouldn't be at all surprised if she allowed Kyron to call Desiree and cry, and to tell Desiree that Kyron would be happier living with her, because she simply didn't want to live with this child she resented and she wanted Desiree to take responsibility for him (the responsibility Terri said Desiree "wouldn't" take for him when Kyron was younger).

I also wouldn't be surprised if down the line we discover that in some emails Terri found a way to blame Kaine for some of Kyron's issues, or for tension in the home that led to Kyron wanting to live with Desiree, etc. From all we've read of Terri's own words, she liked to blame others while elevating herself. Would it be out of the character she's shown in previous emails to hear her say that Kaine was the real problem in Kyron's life and that she was suggesting he live with Desiree "for his own good"? I don't think so....

Anyway, I think in some contexts it would be a loving step mother who encouraged a child to call his bio-mother when he was having a tough day and even went so far as to lovingly "give him up" to another household if his distress was extreme... but we haven't seen anything yet from Terri to suggest she was such a step mother. We've read resentment, persecution, a little martyrdom, but certainly not selflessness or overwhelming generous love. She resented him, and in THAT context, telling Desiree she felt Kyron should live with her, followed by emails suggesting "hatred", followed by the knowledge Kaine wouldn't allow Kyron to leave her home, followed by Kyron's mysterious disappearance... yeah.

 

[gitana1]

bbm and respectfully snipped from upthread

I agree 100% with the above bolded statement. Thing is, there is no evidence or even information being provided to us that TH EVER expressed hatred to Kyron, ever. It's not even alleged by her own husband, who was there, according to his own testimony, most of the time as primary caretaker. This alleged email(s) that Desiree refers to is from my understanding written (as in venting) to another adult. So until we see the email(s), it would be impossible to know what is behind the meaning, maybe not even then.

Gitana, can you see a reason for them, LE or Desiree, (not sure if Kaine has even seen the aforementioned email(s)), not releasing the actual documents now that the cat has virtually been let out of the bag. If these emails show so adamantly that Terri hated Kyron, and Desiree has already said that, why not release them?

I take the meaning of "to" and "toward" differently. I think someone saying to a third party that they hate their wife is not as horrible as saying to a third party that they hate their kid. Saying bad things about someone, even when not in front of to the object of the anger, is still expressing hatred or anger towards that person. I doubt that TH ever expressed outright hatred to Kyron, though.

I think the e-mails have not been released because to so would be to compromise the investigation. We don't now exactly what they say, so the cat is not totally out of the bag. I think Desiree has seen the e-mails but I doubt she has possession of them. LE is not going to release much at this point. IMO!

 

[SurfieTX]

I think Terri didn't want Kyron living there. IMO, she probably never anticipated a lifetime of being Kyron's full time mother, as when she met Kaine and they started their relationship, Desiree had primary custody.

Terri made it clear in her email that she felt she was forced to not work so she could be a stay at home mom for Kyron, blowing through all her savings to do so because "his natural mom wouldn't". She was resentful of Kyron and Desiree and Kaine, that was clear in her own words. IMO, Terri probably thought when Desiree became healthy enough to care for Kyron again, she would. But Kaine wouldn't give up his child, so there she was.

She had no money, and in her own words the reason she had no money was because of Kyron whose presence as a baby forced her to stay home, Desiree who "wouldn't" stay home with Kyron, and Kaine who made her contribute financially to her household. She blamed all 3 of them for her lack of money - those are words written by her that we've been allowed to read.

So with that resentment inside her, I wouldn't be at all surprised if she allowed Kyron to call Desiree and cry, and to tell Desiree that Kyron would be happier living with her, because she simply didn't want to live with this child she resented and she wanted Desiree to take responsibility for him (the responsibility Terri said Desiree "wouldn't" take for him when Kyron was younger).

I also wouldn't be surprised if down the line we discover that in some emails Terri found a way to blame Kaine for some of Kyron's issues, or for tension in the home that led to Kyron wanting to live with Desiree, etc. From all we've read of Terri's own words, she liked to blame others while elevating herself. Would it be out of the character she's shown in previous emails to hear her say that Kaine was the real problem in Kyron's life and that she was suggesting he live with Desiree "for his own good"? I don't think so....

Anyway, I think in some contexts it would be a loving step mother who encouraged a child to call his bio-mother when he was having a tough day and even went so far as to lovingly "give him up" to another household if his distress was extreme... but we haven't seen anything yet from Terri to suggest she was such a step mother. We've read resentment, persecution, a little martyrdom, but certainly not selflessness or overwhelming generous love. She resented him, and in THAT context, telling Desiree she felt Kyron should live with her, followed by emails suggesting "hatred", followed by the knowledge Kaine wouldn't allow Kyron to leave her home, followed by Kyron's mysterious disappearance... yeah.

Excellent summary.

Kaine did say in his presser at the Wall of Hope (I think that's where if memory serves) that Terri would create problems and then come up with the solutions (as you so astutely pointed out as being a martyrdom syndrome).

 

[wvjules]

My point is, this was not a pleasant stepmother to mother call. It was a worn out, can't take it anymore stepmother who wanted that kid gone, and thought the mom hearing over the phone how upset the kid was would convince mom to take him. I bet she called Desiree more than once about Kyron, about how he won't listen, won't do what she says, and Desiree had to tell him to mind Terri. I think Terri got to a breaking point, and finally asked Desiree to take custody and that's why that one call stood out to Desiree since Terri had never asked her that before.

It's a rare stepfamily situation that the stepmother and mother call each other and have pleasant conversations. More often than not, unfortunately, it's one calling to complain about the other's kid. Terri and Desiree don't strike me as ever being friends, more Desiree tolerating Terri for the sake of Kyron, or so she thought. I bet now she wishes she hadn't tolerated Terri for so long. I just don't think this situation is as ideal as Terri wants people to believe it was. And if she was such a caring stepmother, she'd out there looking for this lost child, or heck, Kyron wouldn't be lost at all.

How do you know that it wasn't a pleasant stepmother to mother call? Because of all of the dirt flung at TH by DY and KH?

I see the phone calls as Kyron was upset, for whatever reason, so TH let Kyron call to talk to his mom. Why does EVERYTHING TH does have to be seen as evil? She raised this child She loved him, she mothered him, she cared for him. What evidence do we have that shows otherwise? Because DY and KH say so? That doesnt' cut it in my book.

 

[rosiebean]

How do you know that it wasn't a pleasant stepmother to mother call? Because of all of the dirt flung at TH by DY and KH?

I see the phone calls as Kyron was upset, for whatever reason, so TH let Kyron call to talk to his mom. Why does EVERYTHING TH does have to be seen as evil? She raised this child She loved him, she mothered him, she cared for him. What evidence do we have that shows otherwise? Because DY and KH say so? That doesnt' cut it in my book.

Respectfully, what evidence do we have to prove any of this? Because TH said so? DY and KH have said different...and TH's actions do not make her word enough to 'cut it' for me...IMO.