Details Emerge: Casey/Cindy Fight - Part 1

[hroark2112]

Too bad CA didn't choke KC all the way. Caylee would still be with us, and her monster "mommy" would be 6 feet under.

If there was a time machine, that would be one choking I'd volunteer to do myself.

 

[spartanmom]

I believe this esp. after listening to the jail visits. CA and GA both tell KA to forget about things that were said. She can see that GP's are visibly upset through the monitors, and she is loving every minute of it. The crying that she is doing is more for herself, but, I believe some, some of it is truly for Caylee and then she is wanting her parents with her to comfort her, kinda like a love hate relationship. Don't you feel bad now, oh no, what are we gonna do, I love you, I love you, then see what you made me do, I had to get rid of Caylee, I just want to come home, now you will have to love me, guilt, guilt trip. Sorry I am rambling!!

 

[zoey]

In the LE documents, where it has Mark Fuhrman's statement, he says that Cindy and George told him that Casey and Cindy had a fight that night. Nothing about choking, just that they had a fight.

Another thing I've wondered about is in the FBI interview when Cindy goes on and on about how she'd never attack someone, but that she's "the kind of person" who walks away when she's angry. The FBI agent hadn't asked about anything related, Cindy just brought it up out of the blue. I've wondered if she was trying to deny the fight happened.

had the same problem with that interview....

 

[IWannaKnow]

I totally believe this fight happened just exactly how it has been rumored. CA confronted KA about the stealing from GP's, got really loud and ugly, KA took Caylee and left. They did not stay the night there. GA did not see them the next day. KA waited till she knew everyone was away from the house that afternoon and then went back to get some things, wanted to go out that night, somehow (still not sure) she killed (drugged) Caylee, left her in the trunk, yada, yada, it's been discussed somewhere on here I know.
Anyway, GP's feel very guilty, esp. CA, she thinks she pushed KA to the edge. I believe CA has tremendous amount of guilt.

spartanmom -
I like your assessment. I agree, with the addition that I have believed for awhile that the June 9 date is also significant. Documents prove that they were not sleeping at the house for the majority of that week. I've never believed that they just pulled that date out of the air. I think June 15th was just round 2, therefore that much worse. KC came back to pick Caylee up after the Father's Day visit and CA started in on her. Maybe this is even when the "spiteful " comment came into play. All the more reason why on the following day, KC calls CA several times in a row, with no return phone call. I'm sure I'm not the first to come up with this..............this is just what I think now. Kudos to whomever thunked it up first. I just can't decide if it was accidental or on purpose and KC was going to try to pin it on CA/GA. IDK, JMOO, TIA.....etc.

 

[weasel]

<<george says he saw both casey and caylee leave the house on the 16th after lunch some time.>>

I think this has alot to do with the "A's won't be giving conflicting statements anymore" thing. I don't really think GA saw Casey and Caylee leave that morning like he says he did. Never did believe that. Just my opinion, but I agree that after the big blow out, Casey took Caylee and left and that's the last anyone besides Casey saw of her. After that, Casey goes on month long "spree", during which time she strings CA along about where she and Caylee are. When CA realizes that something really bad has happened, she feels guilty like she caused it and starts defending Casey. Remember the phone call from jail when Casey says it's not her fault she's in jail?

 

[spartanmom]

spartanmom -
I like your assessment. I agree, with the addition that I have believed for awhile that the June 9 date is also significant. Documents prove that they were not sleeping at the house for the majority of that week. I've never believed that they just pulled that date out of the air. I think June 15th was just round 2, therefore that much worse. KC came back to pick Caylee up after the Father's Day visit and CA started in on her. Maybe this is even when the "spiteful " comment came into play. All the more reason why on the following day, KC calls CA several times in a row, with no return phone call. I'm sure I'm not the first to come up with this..............this is just what I think now. Kudos to whomever thunked it up first. I just can't decide if it was accidental or on purpose and KC was going to try to pin it on CA/GA. IDK, JMOO, TIA.....etc.

Agree on the June 9th date. I think you are right on with that as well. KA has the thought process of a teenager. Teens are like a toddler, their frontal lobe of the brain has not completely developed and this is where your reasoning comes from. Even into the early twenties, if I am correct I don't think the brain is completely developed until the mid twenties, 24/25. That's why young twenties still do really dumb things. Please know that I am in NO WAY taking up for KA. I TOTALLY BELIEVE SHE SHOULD BE PUT AWAY, THERE IS NO EXCUSE FOR WHAT SHE DID. Obviously she only knows how to react to anger by becoming violent and screaming, look at mom. Neither one have ever been taught how to deal with their anger.
Oh, this probably needs to have its own thread. Please do so if you think, mods.
BRB have dr. appt.

 

[BeanE]

Well, I guess she is sitting on the swamp land she bought. I noticed how she walked away with a baseball, hammer, and running after a lady to her car and threatening her....hmm:crazy:

lol. Yes, she was very much going towards people. Considering the amount of anger Cindy has displayed, and the threatening behavior we've seen, as well as the stories of her displays of extreme anger and aggression told by Cindy and George about Cindy from before all this happened, it's easy for me to believe that Cindy is capable of being physical when she's angry, and in the privacy of her own home, where there's nobody but her family who covers for her to see her. In other words, I believe she would have choked Casey.

 

[pirate]

<<george says he saw both casey and caylee leave the house on the 16th after lunch some time.>>

I think this has alot to do with the "A's won't be giving conflicting statements anymore" thing. I don't really think GA saw Casey and Caylee leave that morning like he says he did. Never did believe that. Just my opinion, but I agree that after the big blow out, Casey took Caylee and left and that's the last anyone besides Casey saw of her. After that, Casey goes on month long "spree", during which time she strings CA along about where she and Caylee are. When CA realizes that something really bad has happened, she feels guilty like she caused it and starts defending Casey. Remember the phone call from jail when Casey says it's not her fault she's in jail?

But the video of Caylee at the nursing home with her great grandfather was taken on Father's Day which was June 15, so they did see her after June 9.

It makes sense to me that during that Father's Day visit Cindy discovered that Casey stole money from her grandparents.

 

[Litany]

I totally believe this fight happened just exactly how it has been rumored. CA confronted KA about the stealing from GP's, got really loud and ugly, KA took Caylee and left. They did not stay the night there. GA did not see them the next day. KA waited till she knew everyone was away from the house that afternoon and then went back to get some things, wanted to go out that night, somehow (still not sure) she killed (drugged) Caylee, left her in the trunk, yada, yada, it's been discussed somewhere on here I know.
Anyway, GP's feel very guilty, esp. CA, she thinks she pushed KA to the edge. I believe CA has tremendous amount of guilt.

I agree that the fight took place as rumored. But why would GA feel the need to lie about the 16th if Casey left the night before? I think it's possible something happened to Caylee inside the Anthony home and that is why they have helped cover evidence and have lied to police. I think it's very possible Caylee never left their home alive after the 15th.

 

[BeanE]

I believe this esp. after listening to the jail visits. CA and GA both tell KA to forget about things that were said. She can see that GP's are visibly upset through the monitors, and she is loving every minute of it. The crying that she is doing is more for herself, but, I believe some, some of it is truly for Caylee and then she is wanting her parents with her to comfort her, kinda like a love hate relationship. Don't you feel bad now, oh no, what are we gonna do, I love you, I love you, then see what you made me do, I had to get rid of Caylee, I just want to come home, now you will have to love me, guilt, guilt trip. Sorry I am rambling!!

I so agree with you, spartanmom. There are times in those tapes when Casey can barely stay in her seat she is so excited with the strife she is causing her family, especially Cindy.

We can't forget that sociopaths *enjoy* the pain they cause others. You can see Casey's delight in those tapes as well as her manipulation (the love/hate and want to come home etc you mention) so clearly.

I like to think of Casey as a bug under a microscope when I watch her on tape Seriously, it's good education for everybody to watch her, to learn more about how a sociopath acts. They're so manipulative it can be very hard to identify them, and to protect ourselves, I'm a firm believer that we all need to know as much as possible about them and how they act.

Thank you for your post. You bring up very important points.

 

[norr]

I agree that the fight took place as rumored. But why would GA feel the need to lie about the 16th if Casey left the night before? I think it's possible something happened to Caylee inside the Anthony home and that is why they have helped cover evidence and have lied to police. I think it's very possible Caylee never left their home alive after the 15th.

Why are the police allowing this circus to keep going on and on? Probably can't do anything about it or are just letting time play the story out.

A bounty hunter from California. Puhleeze. Grandparents who won't take a lie detector exam and continue to grift at will. Puhleeze. Friends that would make you want to take a shower just after reading about them. Puhleeze.

Caylee Anthony was a sweet sweet child.

 

[reeseeva]

I so agree with you, spartanmom. There are times in those tapes when Casey can barely stay in her seat she is so excited with the strife she is causing her family, especially Cindy.

We can't forget that sociopaths *enjoy* the pain they cause others. You can see Casey's delight in those tapes as well as her manipulation (the love/hate and want to come home etc you mention) so clearly.

I like to think of Casey as a bug under a microscope when I watch her on tape Seriously, it's good education for everybody to watch her, to learn more about how a sociopath acts. They're so manipulative it can be very hard to identify them, and to protect ourselves, I'm a firm believer that we all need to know as much as possible about them and how they act.

Thank you for your post. You bring up very important points.

I think what is so perplexing for me to understand, is her behavior in the jailhouse tapes, where she is sooo giddy & elated when she first greets her family, & is so comfortable in JAIL! I can't get past that! It's so abnormal under such dire circumstances?

I have never been one to sit at a computer for any length of time, & yet I am drawn into analyzing those videos & watching her mannerizms, etc., that I come away believing she has to be insane! Florida's Sunshine Laws have really brought this whole case "up close & personal" into the pschye of a true sociopath. It is so scary there are people so manipulative of others & yet, they really only beat themselves in the end.

 

[yolorado]

<<george says he saw both casey and caylee leave the house on the 16th after lunch some time.>>

I think this has alot to do with the "A's won't be giving conflicting statements anymore" thing. I don't really think GA saw Casey and Caylee leave that morning like he says he did. Never did believe that. Just my opinion, but I agree that after the big blow out, Casey took Caylee and left and that's the last anyone besides Casey saw of her. After that, Casey goes on month long "spree", during which time she strings CA along about where she and Caylee are. When CA realizes that something really bad has happened, she feels guilty like she caused it and starts defending Casey. Remember the phone call from jail when Casey says it's not her fault she's in jail?

This theory of George lying about seeing Caylee and KC on th 16th has kicked around since the beginning but I never gave it much creedence. My problem with it was not understanding why would George lie to protect KC when he seemed to have her number better than anyone else and when he seemed so devoted to Caylee. In the beginning, I couldn't help but feel that he wanted to get to the bottom of what happened so much that he would be ABSOLUTELY truthful about the last time he saw an alive Caylee. I didn't see him covering for KC. However, what if he's not covering to protect KC but to protect Cindy. We've seen that he wants to do that. What if he thought from the beginning, from Day 31 that there was a dead body in the trunk. KC turned up, so he knew it wasn't her. Caylee, however, was nowhere to be found, then 'kidnapped' with some cawcawmaemie story. KC had shown him who she was for a while and, unlike Cindy, he'd started to believe her. What if George put it all together and figured that KC killed Caylee. He co-operated with the police, telling them things he didn't even tell Cindy. Maybe that was because he wanted them to use his info find Caylee alive, but also to use if they found her dead to be able to put KC away for it if she was guilty and I do think he thought she might be capable of it. He didn't want to do the dirty work himself of admitting to her guilt out in the open or look like he was helping the police too much because Cindy would never forgive him but he'd help the cops get pointed in the right direction. However, what to do about Cindy and the fight. If KC took Caylee and left after Cindy'd gone off and never came back, KC might have snapped because of the fight. Cindy would blame herself. She couldn't live with the guilt, so he'd lie to her about seeing KC and Caylee the day after so she wouldn't feel as responsible. On the 16th, Cindy had thought she'd heard them that morning and felt better. When George discovered later that they weren't there, he said he had seen them to make Cindy feel better.

Perhaps Cindy even thought she'd heard them on Day 1 rather than Day 31. Perhaps that was when George started to lie...to make Cindy less guilty to losing it during the fight and apparently driving KC away WITH Caylee, especially when KC seemed to be keeping Caylee from them. Maybe George started telling these little white lie to keep Cindy safe from guilt way before Day 31. Then, when he got to the police, he just kept it up. He didn't figure it was that material and, anyway, he was doing his best to give the police enough to get KC if they needed to.

After all that's gone down though, it doesn't make a lot of sense that KC went home the 15th, although I supposed she could have gone back after TonE's, with or without Caylee and hidden in her room pretending to be sleeping hoping to avoid more drama the next morning in the aftermather of the fight the day before, particularly if Caylee was already dead in the trunk. Or George could be telling the truth. It's possible that we'll never know.

 

[AquaEyes]

For CA to be choking KC it seems to me that there would have to be a very huge motivation; not theft, not missing gas cans or the other bad behavior. It is my opinion that this fight was ignited by CA learning of the demise of Caylee. This is just speculation, of course. But I am trying to imagine what would ever cause me to choke someone. It would have to be something horrific.

JMO

 

[BondJamesBond]

Computer Forensics thread (incl. forensics on both G&C computers + cell ping info) provides information that suggests George's account of 6/16 is prolly accurate w.r.t. timing. Casey left, but, didn't leave the area, then returned home.

Account of Cindy's hands on Casey's throat are prolly Casey=>Lee=>Jesse...so exactly how accurate do you think that account is based on the most likely source of that detail? Would Casey bend a story to make it more sympathetic to her cause.....?........naaaaah, surely not.

 

[MsMacGyver]

I think it will be very interesting to see the phyc report on KC to see if she actually is a sociapath. Also when I was watching JG interview on Today Show the comment that REALLY jumped out at me was when JG said he didn't know who this KC is compared to who she was back when they were engaged. KC is very experienced at changing her personality to fit her needs. I think this is a very good reason why she is able to conform to her jail visit so well. When she was talking to GA about being home on Caylees birthday you can clearly see her manipulation with her father and how she plays him to get what she wants. Sooner or later KC will come to the realization that this is not a game shes used to playing if she hasn't already and that mommy and daddy are not going to be able to get her out of this mess. The video of LE walking KC out of her house at the time of her 2nd arrest you can clearly see in her eyes, ( I call them her killer cat eyes) that she is capable of some terrible things. She can play the good mommy role when it suits her but I really believe there is no one in her life that she has ever been honest with about who she really is or what shes capable of. I can understand how the parents are having a hard time realizing how they could have raised such a monster. It wouldn't surprise me to find out that it was actually KC that attacked CA.

 

[julie2]

Maybe GA did see KC & Caylee leave on the 16th. Maybe they had come back to the house to get more stuff after CA left for work and he saw them come out of KC's room and leave.

 

[SL_Zero]

According to Cindy, she DID tuck them in that night. She failed to mention any fight tho.

Did she actually tuck them in??
Regardless of their weird dynamic, Casey was a grown woman (agewise).
WAY too old to be tucked in!!

 

[Oakley]

Gonna be difficult getting this evidence concerning the argument in if Lee doesn't testify. CA and GA are going to get out it, I bet they plead the 5th. Lee may follow...I hope not.

Maybe the neighbor(s) who overheard the fight will be called as witnesses?

 

[MsMacGyver]

For CA to be choking KC it seems to me that there would have to be a very huge motivation; not theft, not missing gas cans or the other bad behavior. It is my opinion that this fight was ignited by CA learning of the demise of Caylee. This is just speculation, of course. But I am trying to imagine what would ever cause me to choke someone. It would have to be something horrific.

JMO

I wonder why everyone assumes that it was CA choking KC and that CA started the fight. Until the facts come out I guess we won't know the real story but my guess would be that KC was the one with her hands around CA throat and CA might have just been defending herself. I still think when things start coming out we are going to find that KC had more plans of harming not only Caylee but some of the other family members. It wouldn't being surprising in the least that CA would rather take the blame for the fight then to have people know that KC would be capable of such aggression. KC's computer searches have always bothered me. Why would she need to search neck-breaking, self defense, to defend herself against a 2 year old?..