Dina Shacknai wants Max's death reopened; gives ICU pic to media

[MyBelle]

OR she took the time to place the scooter there.

I've always thought the scooter was thrown at MS while upstairs and he and then it both went over the railing, the scooter hit the chandelier and all fell, with the scooter landing on top of MS because he went over the rail first. <modsnip>.

JMO

 

[MyBelle]

It says she is certified in that link?

Yes. The article quotes both her former boss and her sister.

 

[i.b.nora]

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articl...ebecca-zahau-incident-remains-mysterious.html

It's on page two of the article.

 

[Salem]

gentle reminder: please do not post minor names other than that of the victim... Thanks everyone.

THIS IS NOT A GENTLE REMINDER - STOP PUTTING THE MINOR'S NAME IN THE THREADS.

NO MORE WARNINGS. From here on out, TOs will be issued.

In addition, you all need to stop bickering. The rules are that BOTH Dina and Rebecca are victims in this case. Making stuff up, pulling stuff out of thin air, bashing or attacking them is not allowed and this thread has plenty of ALL of that in it.

Stop. If you can't back your post up with something logical, then don't post it. This goes for both sides of the fence.

Salem

 

[Charterhouse]

I've always thought the scooter was thrown at MS while upstairs and he and then it both went over the railing, the scooter hit the chandelier and all fell, with the scooter landing on top of MS because he went over the rail first. <modsnip>
JMO

The only problem with this is that no autopsy or medical reports showed that there were any marks on M leg where the scooter would have landed.

 

[Charterhouse]

Learning to do CPR and doing CPR are very different things. I have had many courses in CPR for both adults and children. I can say I know how to do CPR but I would not say I was proficient in CPR.

 

[Jessica2012]

Snipped. Again, I'd love to hear from some verified specialists and verified insiders about this.

What specialists thought he would make it? At the first ER in Coronado? At Rady? What day was this? At what point in the evaluation process did they think this?

And what do you mean by "make it?" As in, full neurological recovery? Persistent vegetative state? Somewhere in the middle?

Nothing, but nothing about this child's presentation suggests that he had any hopeful outcome, beginning with the paramedics arriving and taking him to the Coronado hospital. I can understand that Dina may not have understood this emotionally or cognitively in her shock and grief, but it's a pretty big leap to suggest that the whole ER/ PICU team at Rady thought he just had a small neuro insult and he would make a pretty good recovery.

And by the way-- did these specialists that thought he would make it, was that their opinion when they made the social services notifications that he was gravely injured in an unwitnessed fall? Did they think he would make it at that point?

For most of the days he was in the ICU, the process of establishing brain death was occurring-- at least the last 48 to 72 hours of his admission. The first day or so was stabilizing him and determining the extent of his injuries, and supporting him and looking for any signs of improvement. When it became clear that there was no improvement or hopeful signs, that is when the decision is made to formally document the criteria for brain death-- and that takes 1 to 3 days in circumstances like this. Repeat evaluations over time, but several measures and several separate clinicians.

KZ, i will find the link for you. I believe it was in Nina's interview but I am not sure.

 

[Jessica2012]

Respectfully, I have never written that, and I have never read that. What we have written is not about the quality of c. p.r. that Rebecca may/may not have given. She was a technician, maybe she trained for it maybe she did not. The only point made regarding her and C.P.R. is <modsnip>. I have respect for what you write and you know that, but I firmly believe she did not call for help when she stated. I have discussed this with many experts. The prolonged cardiopulmonary arrest would. not have caused global hypoxia so soon(taking into account the hospital is two minutes away and the 25 minutes by paramedics.) You wrote about the advanced brain trauma he presented with(decorticate rigidity and pupillary reflex) you think its normal for a spinal cord contusion at this level to cause such advanced signs by the time he reached the first hospital? Do you think 30 minutes after this type of injury is enough to cause global hypoxia? (His brain herniated later, in the hospital). The doctors and experts who post on this case who believe it was not an accident have always maintained even if she gave NO C.P.R. and just called for help, Max would have been saved. And from the first moment I started discussing this case, we all believed the fall was not the primary insult.
This is just my opinion and I am writing with nothing but respect.

Another point I would like to make regarding this is that in a spinal cord contusion at the level of Max's, the spinal cord would not have appeared severely damaged in the first few hours, but after several hours, the injury site becomes necrotic (it shows shows evidence of cellular and tissue dissolution, hemorrhage and swelling). This is the normal progression of events in in acute spinal cord contusion at that level- it serves no prognostic value whatsoever. Patients treated in the first eight hours of the injury usually have a positive outcome.

All my opinion.

 

[K_Z]

Another point I would like to make regarding this is that in a spinal cord contusion at the level of Max's, the spinal cord would not have appeared severely damaged in the first few hours, but after several hours, the injury site becomes necrotic (it shows shows evidence of cellular and tissue dissolution, hemorrhage and swelling). This is the normal progression of events in in acute spinal cord contusion at that level- it serves no prognostic value whatsoever. Patients treated in the first eight hours of the injury usually have a positive outcome.

All my opinion.

Yes, I know. Programmed cell death, primary and secondary injury, apoptosis. I get it-- but others may not.

Jessica, why don't you consider writing up a long post, in layman's language, describing the course and treatment, and prognosis of high spinal cord injury? I think it would be interesting for others. No snark-- I'm totally serious. Please consider the voluntary credential verification, also. There is much to discuss.

 

[Wendy101]

It would have gotten Dina out of Jonah's life. And we know Rebecca did not like Dina.

oh, I always thought it was the other way around... In my opinion Dina was crazy jealous of Rebecca! Dina begged her ex-husband not to leave her... I bet Dina hated that Max would be spending time what a new woman, a stunningly beautiful one, that stole her husband!

I don't think Dina would be any sort of competition for Rebecca.... Jonah loved Rebecca, they were engaged to be married. All the photos I have seen of Rebecca and Max, he looked quite content in her arms...

Also, if what you are implying is true, why would Rebecca murder Max and not Dina?

make more sense that Dina wanted to get rid of Rebecca, not the other way around.

 

[jjenny]

Yes, I know. Programmed cell death, primary and secondary injury, apoptosis. I get it-- but others may not.

Jessica, why don't you consider writing up a long post, in layman's language, describing the course and treatment, and prognosis of high spinal cord injury? I think it would be interesting for others. No snark-- I'm totally serious. Please consider the voluntary credential verification, also. There is much to discuss.

Once the cells of the spinal cord die, there are dead. There is no way currently to reverse the damage.

"Unfortunately, there's no way to reverse damage to the spinal cord. But, researchers are continually working on new treatments, including prostheses and medications that may promote nerve cell regeneration or improve the function of the nerves that remain after a spinal cord injury."
http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/spinal-cord-injury/ds00460/dsection=treatments-and-drugs

 

[delaney]

My daughter sent me a copy of Phoenix Magazine Aug. 2012 (because I am here not there).
The article" Boy, Interupted" by Craig Outhier is based on several interviews with Dina Shaknai and in it she addresses the issue
of Rebecca's background, and why she did not go to court with Jonah,
over what she had found, instead they came to an agreement between the two of them on what
RN could or couldn't do with MS.

"In lieu of a costly and lenghty court battle, which Dina says could have
bankrupted her, she and Jonah agreed on a set of gound rules regarding
Max and Rebecca."

www.phoenixmag.com

 

[Tink56]

Another point I would like to make regarding this is that in a spinal cord contusion at the level of Max's, the spinal cord would not have appeared severely damaged in the first few hours, but after several hours, the injury site becomes necrotic (it shows shows evidence of cellular and tissue dissolution, hemorrhage and swelling). This is the normal progression of events in in acute spinal cord contusion at that level- it serves no prognostic value whatsoever. Patients treated in the first eight hours of the injury usually have a positive outcome.

All my opinion.

Do you or Jessica2012 have a medical background to support your "opinions"?

Living in the area, I've followed this case since the beginning. These statements are the first I've heard that Max's condition was treatable.

 

[colette]

Learning to do CPR and doing CPR are very different things. I have had many courses in CPR for both adults and children. I can say I know how to do CPR but I would not say I was proficient in CPR.

Then there are the news stories over the years of children who have preformed CPR and saved lives by only seeing it on TV.

 

[jjenny]

Then there are the news stories over the years of children who have preformed CPR and saved lives by only seeing it on TV.

Children? Performing CPR? I think you are confusing it with Heimlich maneuver.

 

[CuriousGeorgia]

oh, I always thought it was the other way around... In my opinion Dina was crazy jealous of Rebecca! Dina begged her ex-husband not to leave her... I bet Dina hated that Max would be spending time what a new woman, a stunningly beautiful one, that stole her husband!

I don't think Dina would be any sort of competition for Rebecca.... Jonah loved Rebecca, they were engaged to be married. All the photos I have seen of Rebecca and Max, he looked quite content in her arms...

Also, if what you are implying is true, why would Rebecca murder Max and not Dina?

make more sense that Dina wanted to get rid of Rebecca, not the other way around.

Yes, but with Max around, Dina would be in Jonah's life FOREVER. I do not think Rebecca liked Dina just from the things Mary Zahau has said. I bet Rebecca seethed every time Dina and Jonah attended a school function or soccer game for Max. She had to sit home every time Jonah left to do that. And Dina is very attractive as well, and she and Jonah share that beautiful little boy. They would always be his parents, no matter how much Rebecca wanted to be in a mother role. Can't you imagine Rebecca always wondering if Dina would get him back? After all, he loved Dina enough to marry her and have a child with her.

Can you please link us to these happy pictures of Rebecca and Max, because I only know about the one where Rebecca looks like she's forcing him to sit on her lap and he looks ready to scream.

And why kill Max rather than Dina? Max was a much easier target.

 

[CuriousGeorgia]

Jonah had not asked Rebecca to marry him. They were not engaged.

 

[gypsychild]

Yes, but with Max around, Dina would be in Jonah's life FOREVER. I do not think Rebecca liked Dina just from the things Mary Zahau has said. I bet Rebecca seethed every time Dina and Jonah attended a school function or soccer game for Max. She had to sit home every time Jonah left to do that. And Dina is very attractive as well, and she and Jonah share that beautiful little boy. They would always be his parents, no matter how much Rebecca wanted to be in a mother role. Can't you imagine Rebecca always wondering if Dina would get him back? After all, he loved Dina enough to marry her and have a child with her.

Can you please link us to these happy pictures of Rebecca and Max, because I only know about the one where Rebecca looks like she's forcing him to sit on her lap and he looks ready to scream.

And why kill Max rather than Dina? Max was a much easier target.

So playing devils advocate here, let me get this straight...
RZ wanted to get DR out of her life forever, so she abused and then killed their child. Apparently threw him over a railing, staged the scene, blamed it on the scooter and the dog, called 911 but refused to administer CPR to a dying child, went shopping while he was in ICU... But then killed herself out of GUILT in an incredibly intricate, bizarre fashion when she found out he was going to die???
This does not make sense in any way, shape or form.
ETA - and the billionare father of this child accepted both the accident" and the "suicide" decisions???? Presumably for the love he shared with a woman who murdered his child to get his ex out of his life????

 

[*Lash*]

Here is an article dating back to 9/8/2011. In my opinion it has some valuable information and is a source for some of the things that have been stated by both sides on this thread. One, it points to a very close relationship between RZ and Max from a source other than Mary. Two, Mary acknowledges the relationship between DS and RZ was tense. Three, Mary states DS and RZ did have a meeting, this info comes from a 2011 article before DS's presser.

Dina Shacknai demanded a meeting with Rebecca when she began dating Jonah. "Dina wanted to know who was going to be around her son. Becky agreed to meet her. It wasn't the greatest meeting but Becky got through it. Dina and Becky never got into any verbal or physical fights but there was definite tension," Mary says.

“While Rebecca and Max shared a very close relationship, Max absolutely loved and adored his mother, Dina, and the two relationships simply cannot be compared. Dina was Max's mom, and certainly that was the strongest bond Max had with any woman," a source close to the Shacknai family states.

http://www.radaronline.com/exclusiv...get-jonah-shacknai-s-ex-wife-dina-says-sister

 

[bourne]

My daughter sent me a copy of Phoenix Magazine Aug. 2012 (because I am here not there).
The article" Boy, Interupted" by Craig Outhier is based on several interviews with Dina Shaknai and in it she addresses the issue
of Rebecca's background, and why she did not go to court with Jonah,
over what she had found, instead they came to an agreement between the two of them on what
RN could or couldn't do with MS.

"In lieu of a costly and lenghty court battle, which Dina says could have
bankrupted her, she and Jonah agreed on a set of gound rules regarding
Max and Rebecca."

www.phoenixmag.com

Would like very much to see the legal documents on these ground rules. Also would like to hear from Jonah regarding said rules.