Discuss Max's death here - Thread #1.

[SunnieRN]

If it's all in the name of finding the truth, why didn't the family or family's lawyer ask for a new investigation in the first place? IMO it looks like they didn't want answers from LE. IMO she wanted to provide answers through a civil suit.

Ok I think I get it now. I don't consider the lawyer's interviews with Dr drew to be a formal, documented, legal request to re-open the investigation. As far as I can tell, she had not submitted that request with any authority until recently.

The Dr, Drew interview was asking discussing re opening the investigation. A civil case, has not been mentioned by Bremner or the family.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

JS said he was satisfied with the investigation. That is clearly not what Bremner is going to do.

He had requested a review of the cases. It was denied.

They will also deny Bremner's as well, imo.

 

[jjenny]

He had requested a review of the cases. It was denied.

They will also deny Bremner's as well, imo.

He didn't request review of the case. He requested the review of the investigation. But said he was satisfied with the investigation. Whereas Bremner will request review of the case and I am pretty sure she will say she is not satisfied with the investigation. I don't know if AG will deny Bremner or not. But just because JS was denied doesn't automatically mean Bremner will be denied as well.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I've not seen any media articles even hinting that a family member would murder in revenge rather than rely on law enforcement to take action. I'm not aware of any past cases where the parents of murdered children have murdered the perp before LE had a chance to step in. And I'd probably be very sympathetic to any who did.


JMO

I have seen a couple of cases where a father shot and killed a pedophile that had raped his child and one woman came into the courtroom and shot her child's abuser.

But other than that......I havent.

IMO

 

[oceanblueeyes]

He didn't request review of the case. He requested the review of the investigation. But said he was satisfied with the investigation. Whereas Bremner will request review of the case and I am pretty sure she will say she is not satisfied with the investigation. I don't know if AG will deny Bremner or not. But just because JS was denied doesn't automatically mean Bremner will be denied as well.

I just dont think they are going to take the time to second guess four different police agencies.

IMO

 

[MyBelle]

I have seen a couple of cases where a father shot and killed a pedophile that had raped his child and one woman came into the courtroom and shot her child's abuser.

But other than that......I havent.

IMO

I haven't seen any that happened prior to cops getting involved but I also would be sympathetic at such a reaction. More common is killers of children then committing suicide rather than go to prison. I shed no tears for such vile creatures.

JMO

 

[MyBelle]

I just dont think they are going to take the time to second guess four different police agencies.

IMO

I think you might be right simply because she's made a lot of noise and pointed her finger at everybody involved yet never spent the time putting a formal request together. Now that all this new information has been released, it places LE conclusions in new light. At least, it does for me.

JMO

 

[coastal]

The AR does not mention any cuts on Max's hands that would be from grabbing the chandelier. Which is understandable considering there is information in the search warrant that the head of ICU was of the belief that Max may have been suffocated prior to his fall. If so, Max would not have been able to grab anything on his way down into that stairwell.

JMO

Grabbing a chandelier wouldn't necessarily cut you, unless it was already broken.

 

[NocturnalLady]

How does the Razor Scooter tie into the accident?

Coming to this a little late but maybe Max was riding the scooter along the hallway and playing a game of crashing into the railing? I've seen kids do that kind of thing before - especially boys his age. If he were propelling himself on the scooter with some force and happened to hit the railing while his "pushing" leg was in the air perhaps that changed his center of gravity enough to cause him to fall over the railing. If he maintained a hold on the scooter it could have gone over too and swung out, essentially hooking the chandelier and yanking it or knocking it out of the ceiling as he fell.

I think the chandelier could have come down rather easily. Or at least easier than people think. The way those things are mounted they are supposed to be capable of holding a constant amount of weight. And if that's all that happens then they do just fine and don't fail. But a sharp jerk on the chandelier, or even a glancing blow that swung it enough could easily cause it to pull out of the ceiling. There are potential failure points all over the fixture itself, say the chain for example, the drywall of the ceiling, the device that was used to mount the chandelier etc.

I don't think we will ever know how the chandelier was involved in the accident unless we know what part failed when it came out of the ceiling. I would expect certain types of evidence for different scenarios. A glancing blow, a sudden yank, a violent swinging etc. will all have different parts fail in different ways. I don't think this was investigated throughly enough for us to know exactly what happened with that chandelier. And until we do it keeps too many possible scenarios alive.

 

[NocturnalLady]

Another thing that troubles me is the chandelier. How could someone of Max's weight and size bring down a chandelier? Those things are usually bolted in so tight it's almost impossible to bring them down without special tools.

My husband was an electrician (now an engineer) and I myself worked in the home building industry. I think you might be shocked if you knew how flimsy some of the construction is. Of course I have no way of knowing what the construction was like in Max's house but the fact that it is an older building combined with modern upgrades does leave open the potential for a poor interface between the old and new materials. Also, a lot of the materials used in building homes are really only designed for one purpose. In this case we might have a chandelier fixture with mounting that was designed with weight bearing in mind. It would not be something designed to withstand a sharp tug, a violent push that set it swinging etc. I've seen chandeliers mounted like you said where an earthquake can't even bring them down and I've also seen very heavy, expensive chandeliers mounted very poorly with tiny little toggle bolts. Sure it might hang there for years with no one the wiser but if anything went wrong there would be no "back up" to prevent it from falling.

 

[NocturnalLady]

So if JS wasn't there and wouldn't allow the scooter, who did? And how could a scooter get in the house without someone hearing the clamor it would make?

If it was a Razor brand scooter like I have seen reported they are very lightweight (but sturdy). We have one and my kids could easily carry it upstairs at that age with out a problem.

 

[KariKae]

Did Max go to school in AZ? Or did he go to school in CA? i'm just curious how the custody/visitation was arranged. Did Max spend most of his time with his mom or his dad?

 

[MyBelle]

Grabbing a chandelier wouldn't necessarily cut you, unless it was already broken.

I don't know any 6-yr old who could grab any chandelier without help from a ladder. And as far as I know, no ladder was in the stairwell.

JMO

 

[CDS22]

I don't know any 6-yr old who could grab any chandelier without help from a ladder. And as far as I know, no ladder was in the stairwell.

JMO

One certainly wasn't listed in the AR or SW.

 

[CDS22]

Someone was asking earlier about the shopping trip. Here's another quote (new today) from RZ's brother-in-law:

He said Zahau's 14-year-old sister, Xena, was with her on the day that Max fell and was one of the last people to see her alive.

"Xena said she was fine. It was a bad thing that happened to Max . . . but (Rebecca) didn't blame herself," Loehner said, adding that before Xena left San Diego the day after Max fell, Zahau took her shopping.

http://www.azcentral.com/news/artic...-declines-shacknai-request.html#ixzz1YoVLVUbe

 

[SunnieRN]

I think you might be right simply because she's made a lot of noise and pointed her finger at everybody involved yet never spent the time putting a formal request together. Now that all this new information has been released, it places LE conclusions in new light. At least, it does for me.

JMO

What new information?

I've not seen any media articles even hinting that a family member would murder in revenge rather than rely on law enforcement to take action. I'm not aware of any past cases where the parents of murdered children have murdered the perp before LE had a chance to step in. And I'd probably be very sympathetic to any who did.


JMO

Here is a recent one: http://hotair.com/archives/2011/03/...ation-if-his-killer-gets-parole-ill-kill-him/

There is also a discussion on websleuths about this case.

I haven't seen any that happened prior to cops getting involved but I also would be sympathetic at such a reaction. More common is killers of children then committing suicide rather than go to prison. I shed no tears for such vile creatures.

JMO

I follow the boards a lot and have not seen threads about child killers committing suicide to avoid jail. Can you please post some links as I would find the information very interesting. TIA

Grabbing a chandelier wouldn't necessarily cut you, unless it was already broken.

True, otherwise, how would you ever clean it?

I don't know any 6-yr old who could grab any chandelier without help from a ladder. And as far as I know, no ladder was in the stairwell.

JMO

Lets see, others here on this thread have stated that Max fell 'through' the chandelier or onto the chandelier. Why would he need a ladder if he fell into or onto the chandelier??:waitasec:

 

[MyBelle]

One certainly wasn't listed in the AR or SW.

Now that the SW is unsealed, I do wonder if the ME will change manner of death for Max. I bet he does.

JMO

 

[SunnieRN]

Someone was asking earlier about the shopping trip. Here's another quote (new today) from RZ's brother-in-law:





http://www.azcentral.com/news/artic...-declines-shacknai-request.html#ixzz1YoVLVUbe

Doesn't sound like much of a 'shopping spree' as was eluded to earlier. Also,"Xena said she was fine. It was a bad thing that happened to Max . . . but (Rebecca) didn't blame herself,"

Sounds as if Rebecca cared about Max, but didn't feel guilt in the situation.

Thanks for the link!

 

[jjenny]

Someone was asking earlier about the shopping trip. Here's another quote (new today) from RZ's brother-in-law:





http://www.azcentral.com/news/artic...-declines-shacknai-request.html#ixzz1YoVLVUbe

This doesn't say anything about some shopping extravaganza. XZ was leaving and might have needed things for her trip.

 

[Boodles]

Can someone please humor me and tell me at what point (date) the police were contacted and then became involved regarding Dr Peterson's suspicions about Maxie having suffocated? And provide the source of this info, please? I am very confused about who was told what and when in this timeline.

By chance, is there a factual timeline published in any of these threads? Thanks!